Absurd Reactions To Transvestites

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
61

Hoo-boy. (Sorry!) Where do I begin?

Maybe with an old friend of mine named Peter. Peter was a police officer, decorated by his police department, and a mounted officer (on a horse) and a man in every sense of the word.

Except he liked to wear women’s clothes. Hell, he wanted to be a woman. Named Cynthia.

When he told me, I could understand. Maybe it was because I knew Peter so well, and knew the compassion he had for even those who had run afoul of the law. Yes, he had been shot. Yes, he had been called every name in the book, and then some. But he was still Peter, my friend, who could handcuff an accused, read him (or her) his or her rights, and then take the accused downtown. He was also Peter, my friend, who was the friendly officer who spoke to kids at school about traffic safety, and how to avoid getting hit by cars.

When he told me of his plans, I admit I was a little stunned. But I trusted Peter enough to know that he was a big enough boy…person…whatever…to be all right, no matter what. So when he went for electrolysis (to take care of the beard) and for makeovers, well, fine. That’s Peter…or Cynthia, as he preferred to be called.

And when he told me he was divorcing his wife to become Cynthia–and going out with another transgendered person–that was fine with me too. I wanted happiness for my friend. I wanted to wish Cynthia well. Peter/Cynthia had stood by me at some very difficult times in my life; I felt it only obligatory to do the same for him/her.

But…funny thing was…I honestly didn’t care who was becoming who. The person who had become Cynthia was no different from the person I had known as Peter. For example, both liked the same kind of music, both followed the same sports. It was easy to like Cynthia as I had liked Peter. And when I had a difficult crisis myself, it was Cynthia who consoled me. Not by offering a shoulder–that would have been too easy–but by offering the same kind of support I would have expected from Peter the cop, my friend, who never worried about giving it to me straight. He did–she did–and I have never wavered from my decision I made that day.

I don’t worry about transvestites that I see at the mall. I don’t worry about people who identify as “transgendered.” I think of my friend Peter, and the anguish he went through to become who he–she–did. I can have nothing but respect for people who go through the same thng. Cynthia is happy now, from what I understand, though we haven’t communicated in years. But I miss my friend. I miss Peter…no I miss Cynthia…

No, when all is said and done, I miss my friend. No matter what her name is.

62

I’m not a transvestite (unless you count nerdy clothes as being trans), but many many years ago I was having a pretty low day and an unknown woman asked me on the subway where had I bought my (10yo at the time) gorgeous jacket. Made my day and ever since I’ve made a point of telling people when I love their hair/earrings/clothes.

Mind you, I’ve never claimed to be normal.

63

Sorry for the hijack, but what’s a “twin-set”?

(40+ year old woman-born-woman and I don’t ever recall hearing that term before… but then I’m a pants-and-no-makeup gal myself…)

64

You notice the bad dressers and crap make-up jobs more, that’s all. The really good ones blend in so well they may go completely unnoticed.

65

I understand the sentiment but, as a bouncer, my job was to maintain peace in the bar, not fight for social equality. Since walking into the ladies’ room is off-limits for me, I dealt with the situation that was out on the floor and looked likely to escalate into violence.

I did originally intend to parenthesize the “ladies” within the restroom, but must have missed it. The guy was still a meathead.

66

I have no problem with people expressing their sexual identity through behavior (though some PDA can be too much from any orientation) or dress. But why does some of it have to be so outlandish and flamboyant? My uncle was gay and he was disgusted by the “flaming queers and drag queens” (his words) at the gay pride parades. He thought that the outrageous behavior and dress made it harder for the gay community to be taken seriously. He was not a limp-wrist, prancing, lisping gay man and didn’t like watching his friends join in the parades and become caricatures.
On the other side of the equation is my wife’s lesbian cousin. She has been with her SO for over 20 years and thinks it’s stupid for the extreme lesbians she knows who insist on being the stereotypical “butch” or “dyke” who wear flannel shirts and Birkenstock sandals. Her more extreme friends actually have questioned her sexuality because she will wear dresses and makeup. She said that just because you don’t want to have sex with a dick doesn’t mean you have to act like one. She even told one woman, “You don’t believe I’m a lesbian? Wanna smell my breath?”
If you are a man who enjoys wearing women’s clothing either because it makes you feel sexy or because you identify as a woman, then more power to you. But do you have to dress like Mimi from The Drew Carey Show? What’s wrong with a Donna Karan or even a Lane Bryant outfit? Push away from the makeup counter after you put on the first three coats of rouge and stop applying eye shadow with a trowel.
People put themselves into the stereotypes too often. Just because you like NASCAR doesn’t mean you have to wear a Dale Earnhardt T-shirt and a #3 belt buckle. If you like science fiction, you don’t have to wear pointed ears or speak in Klingon. And just because you identify with a different gender or a particular sexual orientation does not mean that you have to allow yourself to look like an escapee from La Cage au Folles.
Unless, of course, you think that you look beautiful that way in which case flaunt it! You’re fabulous!

67

Alice dear, there are many of us who have never seen a transvestite (that we could recognize) in real life. As old as I am, 56, the first time I recognize one of them I will be totally amazed as if I had seen a tiger in our local woods of Vancouver Island.

Note that the kid waited until the tranny (I always thought that was short for transmission) waited until he/she was outside the door. That at least represents some empathy for feelings. That at least is positive.

Those of us attuned to the macro-culture are well aware of this phenomenon of transvestism. Many people are not. It didn’t even “exist” 40 years ago.

When you drew this event to our attention, I could only compare your post to the kid’s reaction. He had a need to express the incredulity of what he observed. You did exactly the same thing by bringing his reaction to our attention.

68

It’s a matching crew neck short-sleeved or sleeveless sweater and cardigan, usually in a light knit like cashmere. Kind of code for preppy and WASPy in some contexts. Like something Bree would wear with a strand of pearls on Desperate Housewives. Like this. They’re less stuffy when worn with jeans as often featured these days.

69

You’ve never seen Glen or Glenda, have you? :wink:

70

Frankly, I’d be more worried about my (hypothetical) children around Trans-Amites. Some of those folks travel in a pretty fast crowd, anbd they seem to place a lot of emphasis on looks.

Sailboat

71

I understand startlement, but where I come from we don’t make a big, honking deal about other people’s accoutrements, even when they amaze or disconcert us. It isn’t very classy.

I think it’s stupid for queers to be embarrassed about other queers’ gender expression, and I think it’s offensive for queers to presume to dictate to other queers how they should and should not dress and/or express their gender. (This goes for your cousin’s critics just as much as it goes for her. Saying someone isn’t lesbian because she’s femme is pathetic.) This is a liberation movement, not a public relations exercise, and drag queens and butch dykes fought for them at Stonewall and are fighting for them today.

As a point of information, the folks who dress up in really outrageous women’s clothes and use a ton of make-up usually aren’t cross-dressers per se, i.e. people who cross-dress in their day to day lives. Usually they are drag queens, who use their outrageous dress (or dress that imitates a particular celebrity) as part of a spectacle, or for a party or some other special event (in other words, not necessarily because “it makes you feel sexy or because you identify as a woman”.) They’re supposed to look OTT.

Most people who crossdress because it “makes you feel sexy or because you identify as a woman” tend to tone it down a lot more; if they look odd to you, it may be that they’re somewhat inexperienced (boys don’t get taught these things!) or because they don’t care very much about passing. Admit it, you’ve seen nontrans women wearing freaky clothes too. :stuck_out_tongue:

Well, sure, not all the time. But I bet some of them would at least like to dress up as Klingons when they go to a convention. Likewise, But I’m always slightly bewildered when people’s flamboyant dresses and behaviour at Pride parades is criticized. It’s like, did they miss the part where it was a parade? Do they criticize people’s Carnaval wear as well?

72

Matt, can I please have you give seminars to about a half dozen people I know? I have discovered, much to my chagrin, that there are still some backward thinkers in my age group here in Charleston. Usually, this city has a ‘live and let live’ attitude, but there’s an occasional jackass like my cow-orker who described gay people as ‘sick’ last week.
Seriously, you should do a speaking tour. I’d attend.

73

A-fuckin’-men, brother, a-fuckin’-men! (As an aside, though, something tells me–and I can’t explain it–that **The Flying Dutchman ** may have been employing a bit of hyperbole in his description of what he imagines his physical reaction would be upon seeing a detectable transvestite or an out-and-out drag queen.)

Hmmm…interesting. I call South Carolina my home (I grew up bi-regional, if you will, always shuttling between Phiadelphia, PA, and S.C.), and I didn’t know that CHS had a “live and let live” attitude. (I do go there whenever I’m home, but usually just every few days or so to check my e-mail or for other brief ventures, so I don’t spend a great deal of time in the city.) I come from farming folk from Berkeley County, so you might be able to imagine what I heard about my kind (our kind?) when I was just a baby queen. Yeah, I got a few B.S. “illness” lectures after the Devil got his hands on me. :rolleyes:

74

Come on down/over! I know some people, they know people…people are known!

75

What nobody gets is that I like to dress conservative, much as you described, though probably more Ann Taylor than Donna Karan, and since I took off weight I don’t fit most Lane Bryant creations any more. The concept that works for me is understated elegance. With pearls. I taught myself to apply makeup so skillfully that women keep coming to me for advice. But my friends never like it when I dress conservative, they all tell me they prefer me to look Hippie Chick. Says something about the people I hang out with…

I never liked Drew Carey, even though I’m from Cleveland… or maybe I disliked it because I’m from Cleveland…

That’s right, I taught myself to pull off a decent feminine look that works better for me than any of the alternatives. It took plenty of trial and error (I cringe to remember my first attempts), but with enough practice it wasn’t hard to put together.

Even though I’m swimming against the current: Nowadays the prevailing MTF style trend is anti-feminine, because of a backlash against the poorly done trans femininity that is always dissed so strongly. By adopting a dissed concept and turning it into success, I’ve taken on a harder task, but it’s more personally rewarding. I’ve found that estrogen makes such an improvement. It’s like night and day. The sun’s disk in the form of a luminous estradiol tablet has risen over the horizon of my womanhood and flooded my darkness with radiant splendor. Thank Goddess for hormone replacement therapy.

Anyway, when you feel good about yourself is what makes you look good from within. Sophia Loren says “A woman is beautiful when she thinks of herself as beautiful.” Of course, she took naps every day; how many working women could manage that?

76

But it ispublic relations. When you are trying to get approval, do you want people to see you as reasonable or outrageous? When you are in a minority do you want your poster child to be the extreme or the mainstream? Should people fighting for immigration rights be showing the border jumper wading a river, a migrant farm worker in the field and a busboy cleaning tables, or should they be showing the family man with his wife and kids trying to make a better life for them. You want to show the majority, who might have a negative view of your group, that you are basically just like them. If you are walking on eggshells, don’t hop.

Heterosexuals can’t identify easily with a crossdresser (unless it’s done for comedic purposes like in Some Like It Hot, Tootsie and Victor/Victoria) and definitely can’t identify with a drag queen (again unless it’s The Birdcage). They might be able to identify with a “conservatively” dressed homosexual.

The Pride parades are (at least to this hetero) an expression of diversity, humor and (of course) pride in who the participants are both as a group and as individuals. The parades and marches looking for equality are statements of suffrage and oppression and are thus serious matters. Would MLK have been taken seriously if he had members of the marches doing their Steppin Fetchit impersonations or had watermelon eating contests just to throw the stereotypes in the faces of white people? Claiming your heritage is critical to any group to promote their solidarity (much as the way GLBT has taken the word “queer” back or African-Americans use the “n-word” with each other). You take what was used as a weapon against you and own it, thus reducing its pain and effect. But you don’t do it to gain acceptance, you do it after you have been accepted.

Will & Grace would not have been successful with drag queens in the lead. Will could “pass” as straight which made Jack’s effeminate mannerisms tolerable. If they were both screaming queens it would be a harder sell. If they were both drag queens, forget it. Dame Edna is acceptable because it is an act, no matter what the performer’s orientation.

If you want to debate someone or get them to see your point of view, you come at them with logic and calm, rational discussions so you will be taken seriously, not dismissed out of had as a lunatic or a threat.

77

Good for you! I love

What an image. They should offer makeup, hair and dressing classes for transgendered or crossdressing individuals. Or maybe they do, I don’t know. Nobody I know does that, at least that I am aware of.

Maybe it is because I am a Chicago South Side white, middle-class, Catholic-raised, socially moderate heterosexual man (wow, those are a lot of labels!) but I think most outrageous or flamboyant fashions or styles are a little weird. Unless you are at a party or concert or appearing on stage somewhere, what is wrong with trying to look nice (read: conservative)? I go to work wearing business casual and my casual Friday clothes are jeans and a golf shirt. My weekend “slob” clothes are jeans and a T-shirt that either has nothing on it or maybe the name of the store. While I may see the humor in some T-shirt slogans, I see no point in wearing them, especially ones that children should not see.

If a person wears clothes normally reserved for a particular gender because of gender disparity, gender reassignment or sexual proclivity, I think they should want to look their best. My mother always told me to try to dress nice; clean clothes, neat hair, showered. Is that wrong?

78

Not everything we do is about straight people, thank you. Some of it is about inclusiveness within our own community. That is not something I will be sacrificing on the altar of palatability to a majority.

I’m not into looking as non-threatening as possible so that the majority will deign to grant me my equal rights. I’m going to take those rights, and I’ll do it in heels if I want to, because I should have those rights whether or not I’m in heels.

Like I said: not about the straight people all the time. When we want you to identify with us, we’ll let you know. The trick is to respect our rights and the diversity of the community even if you don’t identify with us. It shouldn’t be necessary to identify with us to recognize that we’re equal citizens with you.

I’m going to do it when I feel like it. Our culture, to be very blunt, is not designed to impress you. It’s for us. We do get to have things be about us from time to time.

There’s a time for calm, rational discussions, and I do that too. The pride parade is not a calm, rational discussion. It is a parade. If I wanted to be calm and rational, I’d hold a conference, not a festival.

79

If I should ever encounter a person presenting themself as the opposite gender (and notice it happening), I suspect I’ll react rather strongly; triple-take, muted utterance on the lines of “wait a -what the?”, poorly-hidden staring, the whole bit. Idaho isn’t exactly the heart of cultural diversity, not even in the state capital, and last I checked such things aren’t common around here. While not on a par with an elephant strolling down main street, it would still be rather outside the realm of things I’m accostomed to.

Even though it would be a rather surreal experience, I’d like to hope that I wouldn’t start shouting or anything idiotic like that, though. I’m out of touch with things but I’d like to think I’m not a complete moron.

(Expects to get piled into for being bigoted, or whatever.)

80

The “pride” in “pride parade” refers to pride in living the way each of us likes. We each of us get to order our love and sex lives how it suits us. There would be little enough point in attempting to express pride in being able to live differently by going out of our way to be the same.

There needs to be a little historical context here. The queer liberation movement and the black civil rights movement are starting from different places, so they naturally use different strategies.

Racists want to keep black people as different from white people as possible; they want to exclude them from society. Black people were never invisible: that’s completely the problem, that they are forced to do different things from white people whether they want to or not. They want to have access to the same things white people have access to, literally: the same jobs, the same education, the same opportunities.

Homophobes, on the other hand, want to keep queer people as similar as possible to straights, to the point of completely erasing our difference. Homophobes want queer people, literally, to be heterosexual. I don’t mean to “act heterosexual” or “follow a heterosexual model,” as those phrases are sometimes used as an accusation against those who favour monogamy or same-sex marriage; in fact, same-sex marriage is terribly threatening to many homophobes. I mean, they want us to be heterosexual and conventionally gendered, to change, not to be different, not to have our own culture. What we’re seeking is *to be *visible, *to be *out, to have the right to live our difference at all times, and not to be forced to pretend to be the same in order to enjoy the benefits of society. Accordingly, our fight for civil rights has long centred around being as open as possible about our difference, making ourselves impossible to ignore.

The point is not to alter ourselves to make ourselves palatable. That is exactly what our enemies would like. The point is to be ourselves - whatever form that may take, from the nice gentlemen next door to the pregnant lesbian truckdriver to the Radical Faerie, from the post-op Donna Karan-wearing transwoman to the androgynous genderqueer boydyke - and be accepted just as we are.