I’d venture it’s a rare combination of “Poor Poor Pitiful Me” mixed with a touch of “I’m too damn smart for everybody” and slightly toasted to a “I’m really not a bad guy inside” brown. Serve with a side of “All Americans Suck” and “Generalizations are Your friend” for dipping.
Well, sounds to me like it’s simple “You ignorant US’er pig religious zealots don’t understand me because you are ignorant American religious zealot’s, and I haven’t studied english because it is what ignorant US’ers speak, and poor, poor pitiful me I have twin brother evil twin comatose sibling dyzlex and I am too sophisticated with black and white issues and you don’t understand me and I have one braincell. I will not post anymore here because you do not understand me because you soil the ground witht the blood if innocents.”
C’mon, Ilsa - it’s not too hard to understand.
Aldebaran, I appreciate the trouble you go through to write in a language you weren’t trained in, and I understand that dyslexia is an additional hurdle in this regard. What I’m saying is, that you have to consider your audience. Whilst this board is fairly international in its membership, it still is a US-based message board, linked to an American newspaper column. The majority of posters are therefore American, too. And while the political spectrum is pretty wide here, there’s no denying that there’s a fair share of, shall we say, conservative Americans reading and posting here. A lot of these people support the war in Iraq, as you no doubt found out. And even those who don’t might still take pride in their country.
There’s plenty of ways to engage people in debate, but it seems that you apply the most hostile of them all: what’s the point in offering to provide pictures of blown-up babies, other than piss people off? Surely you realise that this is an unfair debate tactic, and I think if you’re honest, you’ll also realise that most -if not all- war proponents would be horrified at seeing such pictures, just like you would be horrified by them.
So, in short: there’s a difference between debating and antagonising. And so far, you seem to quickly abandon the first for the latter. Whether or not this is due to your English skills, I don’t know. But it doesn’t seem that way. Which prompted my question: do you think a revision of your posting style (where spirit is more indicative than syntax) is in order?
I don’t have too much of a problem with Aldebaran’s political viewpoint. It is really extreme, but there is no denying thatthe war was unjustified and illegal. However, his unwavering petty bullshit arguments, and his arrogance and persecution complex make him unbearable.
Coldfire, it depends all on which public on this message board you think my preference goes to.
Do you think I prefer to interact with people like Ilsa Lund.
In fact: as far as I remember I even never interacted with this member personally.
There are some others who are fervent posters on this particular BBQ board, using language I wouldn’t even consider in my wildest dreams. Do you think they are my target audience around here?
Or do you think I prefer to establish contact with the educated, open minded people, who are indeed present on this website and who were the reason I became a member in the first place.
I don’t think they have that much problems with my postings as you can see in some of the reactions in this very topic.
And if they have they come on board in the topic itself to try to find out what I mean by a certain post/sentence/word.
Which brings us to a solution of whatever may have caused the communication problem.
I wouldn’t know if a “revision” of my writing style is in order.
I also have no idea how to manage that since I am who I am.
I write how I write and I said already many times that I know my posts can be a bit shocking/provoking to some readers.
Yet my style and approach doesn’t explain the overreaction of some of the members here. So I would think that a revision of some people’s prejudices and comprehension skills of other cultures and other ways of expression, would be useful.
If you can come up with some proposition to “alter” my writings, I’m all ear.
Yet I’m not ready to play the childish games that are played on this particular board, as I said to you the first time I was here.
And yes, I do write very differently in English then I would express myself in any other language.
You are joining the ranks of those who declare yourself capable to judge that it is not.
I have a gift for languages - which is a bit remarkable seen the dyslexia - so I’m very well able to pick up a language without following one single class. That is why I can read English very well, that is why I can understand it very well and why I speak it good enough to make myself understandable in simple conversations.
Yet I know myself and I know my capabilities. And the skill of writing and expressing myself in the English language is not among them.
Salaam. A
Aldebaran, here is one American citizen by birth who is extremely annoyed by your posting style. Not content, style. I am annoyed by your frequent inferences that all Americans supported the war in Iraq, that we are insular, ignorant of the rest of the world, and bloodthirsty. And I even agree with you on most of the political issues, so that isn’t the problem.
As someone who learned three foreign languages the hard way, and who was demonstrating against the war at almost every organized demonstration in my hometown, it really pisses me off.
I’ve spent my entire career working with foreigners, and I’ve seen just about every degree of English fluency and world awareness (or lack thereof). IMO it isn’t your language abilities that are the issue here, it’s your nearly complete unwillingness to place blame only where it is due, and to absorb anyone else’s viewpoint. You might try differentiating among the objects of your vitriol. Try it! It’s fun, really. You might even learn something.
Alderbaran - may I suggest that you take the time to get to know THe Ryan - it appears you two may have much in common.
I think Coldfire makes a very good point about Aldebaran. He is on this message board, not, as he says to debate, but to antagonize. Sure his antagonism is cloaked in “Great Debates”, but I have yet to read a single one of his threads that shows he has any interest other than continuing to spew his hatred for the United States and Americans. To better explain some issues I personally have with Aldebaran, Let’s take a look at this randomly selected OP of his:
Aldebaran starts with an implied accusation against the United States by asserting that “thousands” are already killed because the USA “wanted” them. Right off the bat, he begins with the America-bashing, which is his modus operandi, however he does so in a vague, “when did you stop hitting your wife” way, so that the reader has really no clue if he means fascists killed in World War II, or if the United States is slaughtering innocent kids. If he wished to engage in debate rather than antagonization, we could have lost this first sentence without missing anything of substance.
Putting aside his problem with pronouns, I assume he means that the United States “spectrum of interest” has forgotten about Hussein and Bin Laden, as opposed to the thousands that American’s killed because we wanted them. Imprecise language is forgivable, but the assertion he’s making is completely and utterly false. Without citation, Aldebaran makes an assertion that he, in my opinion, pulled out of his ass, because it fits his skewed world view. He even provides a cite in his next post that emphasizes how the Americans are, in fact, still in search of Hussein. Rather than debating, IF, Americans have forgotten about Hussein and Bin Laden, Aldebaran takes it as an assumption so he can continue with his skewed, and uncited, bashing.
More bashing of Americans who, according to Aldebaran have the memory skills of a fruit fly and the critical thinking abilities of a toadstool. And, once again, uncited. However, giving him the benefit of the doubt, let’s assume this is the issue he wishes to debate, rather than another antagonization.
Here is where I think many Aldebaran’s defenders focus when he is discussed. He has the makings of a point, a point that has been made countless times before, but a point nonetheless. It is undisputed that a majority of Americans believe there was a connection between Iraq and the attacks on the World Trade Center. It is an shame, and an embarrassment to me as an American, that many people seem to take refuge in misinformation.
However, if you can follow what Aldebaran has done with that one point, is he’s taken it, generalized it to ALL Americans, and portrayed an entire nation as fanatical, Islam-haters, who are paranoid, and who don’t have the intelligence to remember two embodiments of evil like Bin Laden and Hussein. So far, Aldebaran has never found an Anti-American generalization he didn’t like, and that he didn’t share on this message board.
Finally, we get to his issue for “debate”:
An actual issue, how the quagmire in Iraq will effect President Bush’s election chances, once again filled with venom, hatred, and spite for all thing American. America doesn’t have elections, they’re “election circuses”. And I’m actually too confused by “if can fall on their own heads if they win the game” to try and decipher what he means. Probably something to do with the lack of opposition in America to Bush and his regime, but it’s really too hard to tell.
This is how Aldebaran conducts himself on this message board. He inflames. He incites. He antagonizes. Not that he doesn’t have an modicum of a point in some cases, but that point is suffocating under a sea of hatred, venom, animosity and antagonism.
He could have simply written a debatable OP by saying: I believe that the United States has stopped trying to find Hussein and Bin Laden. I also wonder how that will effect Bush’s chances in the upcoming election. Your thoughts?
But instead of doing that, he would rather spew his biases all over the board. And it’s not just the cited thread, but every single on he starts. He’d rather antagonize than debate. He’d rather insult than discuss. And he’d rather blame language problems than say straightforwardly what he really means.
Oh, and on preview, I agree with Eva Luna also.
That’s why I quit trying to debate anything with Aldebaran, and why I have will not read anything he types.
Eva Luna,
The minute you apologize for your silly attempts to make posts of others mine, to present my posts for what they are not and for you extreme vulgarity, I shall be ready to open a conversation with you.
Until then: Good bye and may God bless you.
Salaam. A
You fucking numbskull, that was Eve who misattributed AlahAkbar’s post to you. An apology is in order.
Hamlet,
I must miss some details in my own postings that you discovered while twisting my intentions in the OP you bring up here. So please help me out, since I must be blind:
Where do I bring the term “all” and “Islam” and “haters” into this?
By the way: I can’t help it that the outside world to which I belong looks at the elections in the USA as being a circus every time again. And te last one was so laughable that it made me completely agree with Fidel Castro when he said that a banana republic would do better.
So if you can’t have it that someone has an other opinion about your country and its politics then you do, why are you participating on a board with an international public?
Maybe it is for the sport to willfully misinterprete and mispresent other people’s intentions and writings and to present yourself a martyr and a victim?
I’m so sorry that I don’t manage to feel any syumpathy with such tactics.
By the way: If you don’t support it to read my posts because you have no clue about what I mean… Who is forcing you to do so?
Salaam. A
“In re: the OP, you wanna give us an update on Francisco Franco while you’re at it?”
And now for those in our audience who are hard of hearing, Garret Morris, head master of the New York School of the Hard of Hearing, will translate today’s headlines:
“GENERALISSIMO FRANCISCO FRANCO IS STILL DEAD”
Good night, and have a pleasant tomorrow.
Ok, I’m done here. No more interaction with Aldebaran. Goodbye.
**
Translation: I am not listening. Any criticisms of my posts are obviously flawed because they do not support my worldview. Until you agree with me you are not worthy to engage in debate. I repeat, any problems you have with me are either due to your insensitivity to my “condition” or your own immaturity.
Absolutely priceless…
As Eva Luna pointed out, it’s not that we have differing opinions, or that you see things differently, I actually value open and intelligent conversations. It’s your continued refusal to partake in meaningful discussions instead to protray the majority of Americans as complete idiots and to disparage all things American without cites or even arguments. As evidence, I’ll simply point to your most recent degragation of the elections in United States. They aren’t perfect, but I don’t see you offering a single positive comment, or an meaningful example of how it would be better in the Islamic world, or even Belgium. You’d rather simply spew your bile and then go straight to insults. That’s fine if your in second grade, but it’s not a discussion I wish to be a part of.
Point to me where I was once playing the martyr or a victim. Go ahead. I’ll wait. You see, your words are simply motes in the wind, and the only reason I stooped to addressing them is for people, other than you, who may be interested in a discussion and reading the thread.
Again, your sympathy or opinion of my tactics means nothing to me.
Nobody forces me to read anything, but when I read ignorance in type, I try to counter it.
Azael, I’m going to read your post the way you want to read mine
“Translation: I’m not aware of it that Eva Lund did all of this thus I’m completely incapable of judging.”
Or an other version:
“I find nothing wrong with all what Ilsa Lund wrote overhere and with all here lies, misrepresenting, misquoting, misinterpretation, her vulgar language… Since I would do exactly the same.”
Which honestly I find a more realistic version.
By the way: if you call all of that “critiques” then I think you must buy an other dictionary.
Salaam. A
You know Aldebaran, I’m willing to rethink my initial judgements about you, but I want to know;
Can you please stop making generalizations about America? I can dig up alot of cites where you have done it, and I think you know you have done it. Most members of this board are not as hate-filled and anti-muslim as you may or may not believe, and I believe you are unfairly generalizing alot of americans based on a few of us.
Also, we are not “US’ers”, it’s “americans”. Canada and mexico recognize us as americans, even though they live in the similar continents.
Please point out one single instance where I have applied vulgarity to you. I think you are confusing me with someone else. I would also appreciate if you could point out a single instance where I have attributed someone else’s words or opinions to you. This may keep you busy for a while, because there are no examples of any of the above. As a linguist by education who works in the legal profession, I am exceedingly careful with my language choices. If I want to curse at you, believe me, you’ll know it. It’s not something I do often, or lightly.
I’m not so upset that you are currently unwilling to open a conversation with me, because I have yet to see a single example of bona fide two-way communication from you anywhere on this board. All you’re accomplishing is giving everyone here a headache.
Hamlet, as I said:
The elections in the USA are perceived every time again as a circus. A merchandising circus, to be more precise.That is not my fault. It is simply the way it is. The best selling product wins and not even voted for by a majority of the citizens, since it is never a majority who even bothers to enlist for voting.
If you find that positive and good, OK.
But I find it a denigrating circus. The more seen the so extreme patriotism and flag worshipping the USA is known for.
That people like you are oversensitive when someone refers to “A m e r i c a n s” and want to take it personal as if is written “all” in front of it, that is also not my fault. It is your way to look at such postings.
I am not going to write every time again “not all” in front of it. People who post as adults on boards like this should be capable of figuring that out by themselves by the contenance of a post.
If I want to talk about “all”, I write “all”.
And yes, you play the victim, even again in your post above. You **want[/] to interprete my posts for what they are not to have a reason to complain.
I am not going to declare myself once again unable to express myself in this language as fluently and clear as anybody else born in that language can do. Or as anybody else who studied the language can do. You should know that by now and take it into account if you feel the call to read my posts.
If you don’t have any understanding for this and wants to keep twisting my intentions because you like that so much, that can not be a problem of mine.
Salaam. A