Adult children of alcoholics, or Why did my guy stand me up?

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
21

I think the most important thing, Eva, is to realize and accept that you may never know what happened with this guy (if he doesn’t call you back, that is).

I’ve been on the receiving end of blowoffs before (heck, who hasn’t?) and they’re not fun. You suspect it’s the end of the relationship, but you want definitive closure; you want to find out what happened so you can close that chapter of your life and move on to the next. And when you get blown off, you don’t get that closure, because that person doesn’t show up again to tell you, “Yes, it’s over, you can move on to your next relationship now.” A part of you doesn’t want to believe it’s over. It can feel like a blow to your self-esteem (“What, wasn’t I good enough for him/her? Why would she/he hurt me like this?”).

But you may never get that closure from this guy, and all the chasing after him and all the phone calls in the world won’t get you that closure. All it can do is prolong things for you and end up hurting you more in the end. What his reasons are will remain his own; possibly he wasn’t happy in the relationship, possibly he got scared by the intimacy, possibly he bailed for reasons completely unrelated to you as a person. You’ve seen that calling him will not result in your getting any more information; it sucks, but it’s how he’s chosen to handle the situation. If he wants to get ahold of you, he will.

My advice for you is to, if he doesn’t contact you within the next day or two, emotionally sign off on this relationship; he proved that he’s not a compatible partner for you and now you can move on to someone who can be. It’s not easy to do, but hanging on just hurts you more.

FWIW, I’m sorry to hear things worked out like this – I’ll buy you a drink at next week’s ChiDope Lunch Bunch gathering. (O’course, it’ll be a Coke 'cuz we all have to go back to work afterwards, but it’s the thought that counts, right? :slight_smile: )

22

I must confess, that’s the first thing that popped into my head too.

I was really swamped one day at work and had something similar happen. After such a difficult work-day, to come home to such a barrage of messages really put me off and led to the “I don’t think this is going to work out…” conversation.

P.S. I’m an adult child of an alcoholic, I’m familiar with the list of “issues” that are supposed to plague me.

  1. No, I have no problems with intimate relationships
  2. I’m neither super responsible, nor super irresponsible – I am painfully average in that respect. (Oh, the mediocrity of it all!)
  3. Impulsive? I can be, but then my girlfriend and I both tend to be spontaneous, though not irresponsibly so (see #2).

The books also say that I’m supposed to have low self-esteem, I’m much more likely to be an alcoholic myself and I was supposed to have had poor grades in school. Nope, nope, and nope. Guess that’s the problem with self-help books – they dwell on generalities and don’t take into account the fact that, really, we all suffer from garden-variety neuroses to some degree, so there are plenty of other reasons why things don’t work out in life.

23

Thanks to all, especially Zanshin (and I’m not much of a drinker anyway, but thanks for the thought! On occasions like this, sometimes I wish I were, though.)

Even if I had been out of line in leaving those messages, I think a phone call was still a reasonable thing to expect, even if it was to have the “I don’t think this is working out” conversation. (and I really don’t think I was, given that he was the one who suggested the specific plan, and no matter how bad his workday was, I think that cancelling or rescheduling plans is common courtesy!) It’s just that I’m wondering if my perceptions about the whole experience were skewed. It sure as hell seemed to me like we were both having a helluva good time together; he certainly could have kicked me out or ended the conversation at any number of moments before he actually did on those occasions we saw or talked to each other, and if he wasn’t enjoying himself (I’ll spare you the gory details), then he certainly deserves an Oscar.

It seems to me like he’s sabotaging what could have been a really good thing for both of us. I don’t at
all understand the dynamics of it, and only partially understand the dynamics of why I have the urge to figure out a guy who apparently doesn’t know what he wants, or at least how to express what he wants.

But given that I actually like the guy, think he’s a special person, and give a damn about him as a human being, whether or not he was meant to become the love of my life, I am wondering if there is any
way I can make him think about these things himself, since he obviously hasn’t found relationship happiness either, and I’m just a big hippie chick who wants everyone to live happily ever after and I have a bad habit of thinking I can fix everyone.

But here’s the rub: I am seriously doubting my own judgement at this point, especially given my past couple of bits of romantic history. I mean, here I meet someone with whom I seem to have an amazing amount in common and a pretty strong mutual attraction on a number of levels, and without any prior warning (at least with my most recent ex, there were signs which I am now able to see in retrospect), he completely flakes on me.

Why do I attract these people? What do my actions have to do with the whole dynamic? Should I ever bother to contact him, even just out of the desire to gain some understanding of how and why this all happened, even if I swear it’s not for the purpose of giving him a second chance, but purely for educational purposes?

I’m also reminded of the time in grad school when I had been e-mailing my freshman college roomie again for a while after being out of touch for a while; I didn’t hear from her for a few weeks, and sent her an e-mail busting her chops for not replying, asking “Did you die or something?”

Imagine my mortification upon receiving the reply, “Well, I didn’t, but my mother did. Sorry for not having written before.”

Come to think of it, she was the daughter of an alcoholic too.

24

Oh, and Charmian, FWIW the book also said that children of alcoholics can also swing the other way, i.e. become extremely high achievers both in the work arena and become extremely, even overly loyal in their interpersonal relationships, out of the desire to gain the approval that they were missing in their developmental years.

Of course any book, especially one written for a general audience, will not be all things to all people. And see my comments above on children of divorced parents in re: myself: I do believe, though, that if one thinks one’s home life as a child had no effect whatsoever on who one becomes as an adult, one is deluding oneself.

25

Actually I’m pretty much mediocre across the boards. sigh I’m “average.”

In any case, I do agree that he should have at least left you a quick message as a common courtesy to say “Ack! Plans are off!” It’s just not good manners to make tentative plans and not follow up. One way or the other – even a cancellation is better than being stood up.

26

In my experience, Eva, when I notice that my dating experiences fall into a pattern (like the one you’re describing, getting involved with people who eventually show themselves to be unavailable), it’s time for me to take a break, step back and evaluate what I’m doing, to examine my actions and my desires and see if they’re jiving with reality. I’d advise the same for you – take a dating break for a while. Spend some time by yourself and do some self-examination. What are you really looking for? What common thread can you find in your last several relationships and how they ended? Is there something that you may need to work on? Is it that you’re making bad choices in the types of people you date? That soul-searching and reflection has helped me immensely in working on my own relationships.

As for contacting him again to find out why and for educational purposes, I’d advise against it. He’s already shown he’s not interested in making contact, and you can’t force it on him. You want to ‘fix’ him – unfortunately, most folks don’t want to be fixed. Try to let it go, look at it as a learning experience, and take those lessons you learn and apply them to your next relationship.

(And I agree completely with Charmian – it’s only common courtesy to let the other person know you’re not interested in dating any more. Even if it’s only an email or short phone call. To do otherwise, IMHO, is being completely chicken.)

27

Ah, Zanshin, I’m already a step ahead of you. Before this guy, I hadn’t dated at all for 8 months. Actually I hate dating per se; Im kind of shy in some ways, and it’s always felt very awkward to me to make small talk with strangers. I am thinking and soul-searching all the time; if anything, I may think too much.

So how, out of the 35 people who answered my ad, did I manage to pick this one? Or were all of them like that, because there’s something about whta I wrote that attracted guys like that? Why did I not see this coming? I’m still trying to figure it out. And it’s hard to make it into a learning experience if I don’t know why it’s not working…which you guys are all saying I shouldn’t bother investigating anymore because it’s not likely to get me anywhere.

So is the learning experience supposed to be that I shouldn’t give a damn about anyone, even rather slowly? And if I don’t give a damn about someone, why am I supposed to continue dating him? It all seems kind of circular. I hope I can turn myself into a Jewish agnostic nun before I get that cynical about men and relaitonships.

28

Hey I’m an ACoA too! Like **Charmian[\b], I tend to be fairly average in responsibility, and have no problems with intimacy. I am usually not spontaneous either. Can’t even guess what your guy’s problem was but I agree that it was rude of him not to follow up.
Hard as it may be, if I were in your position, I would just wait for him to make the next attempt at communication and if you don’t hear from him, forget about him. You’ve made every reasonable attempt (and possibly more) though I think the guy would be just a tad harsh if he responded by never calling you again. If he is that way, he needs a thicker skin and better communication skills.

Regarding your man picking skills, it isn’t you fault and I doubt you really attract only the bad ones though i don’t know what your ad says.
It’s just that the percentage of good choices for any one person are so astronomically low , you gotta wade through a whole buncha garbage to find him. Oh, and I’m a guy so this isn’t man bashing, I mean it both ways.

29

Eva Luna, I seem to recall from a previous thread that this is not the first time this guy has failed to show up when expected and failed to let you know that he wasn’t coming.

It sounds to me like either:

  1. He is very inconsiderate of others, and completely unreliable. If that is the case, you should dump him before he can hurt you any worse than he already has.

  2. He is playing “hard-to-get” in hopes that you will be so happy to see him when he finally shows up that you will invite him to do that which you two have not yet done together. See item 1 for the proper response.

  3. You have been taking off-hand remarks about possible future dates as commitments which he was not actually trying to make, perhaps out of wishful thinking. I don’t know how you can tell if you are doing this, except by asking other friends and relations if you have done this sort of thing before.

  4. He is lying in a ditch somewhere, having been in a serious accident. This could be either the best possibility, or the worst, depending on how badly he is hurt.

All of this is from someone who has not been on a date in over 27 years (I’ve been married that long) and who didn’t go on any real dates until he was 28 years old, so take it with a grain of salt.

30

I feel your pain. I hate, hate, hate dating too. :slight_smile:

I guess the best thing I can say is don’t beat yourself up about this too much. You’re trying to analyze a situation where you don’t have all the info, and that’s gonna drive you nuts. You may never get the info you want from this guy; it’s distinctly possible that he ended the relationship for reasons having nothing to do with you, or because of his own personal hangups. And you didn’t see it coming because he concealed how he felt.

I’ve never done the Reader personals myself (although I always enjoy reading the ‘None of the Above’ section. “Seeking SWM 30-45 with chicken suit and diving mask. Must supply own mayonnaise. No freaks.”) but I’ve done the online dating trip and if I’ve learned anything from the personals experience, it’s that there’s a lot of people out there doing personals dating who, frankly, have a lot of dating hangups. Not that all personals daters do, but a lot of people I met had relationship issues hangups (and the problems-with-intimacy thing seemed to be VERY prevalent). So a part of it may be the people you’re meeting, rather than anything you’re necessarily doing wrong. (breaknrun’s got a good point. When dating, you’re gonna meet a lot more of the wrong guys than you are of the right ones.)

As for learning lessons, what I’m saying ain’t that you should stop caring about other people, but it’s worth examining your last couple of relationships and seeing if there’s a common thread that contributed to them not working.

31

DoubtingRobert,

I don’t think I was misinterpreting the invitation; the exact wording was “Care to enjoy a beer and sit about lazily in the moonlight either tonight or tomorrow?” I responded within the hour that either was good, but tonight was better, and to please confirm details.

Isn’t it sad when one’s best option seems to be for the other person to be lying injured in a ditch? (My friends said much the same thing.)

As for his potential motivations in playing “hard-to-get,” I doubt that, too. He was not in the least aggressive or pushy physically, and in fact, probably could have gotten away with much more than he did, and much sooner.

#1 on your list is possibly the most likely, although I’d prefer to think that it’s out of inability to deal with the results (i.e. having to deal with getting me upset, live) than out of malice.

And Zanshin, yep, I’m analyzing this to death, in an information near-vacuum no less, and it is indeed making me nuts.

It is, however, comforting to know that so many people care and are checking up on me; friends were calling to drag me out of the house or check in all weekend, and are continuing to do so. Warms the heart to the point of tears…

32

Eva Luna, I doubt if he is malicious, but I am afraid that he is uncaring and insensitive to the feelings of others. If that is the case, you are better off alone than with him.

But don’t give up the search for Mr. Right. I met my wife-to-be purely by accident. It can happen to you, too.

33

Eva Luna, just remember that you are not alone and you are not the only person that this has happened to. I had a very good friend in high school who happened to be an ACoA (his parents were divorced, too–double whammy). We talked every day at school for about two years, and we went to prom together, and on a few other dates. After graduation, his father kicked him out of the house, so he went to live with his mother. He drove up to my house about a week after graduation to tell me that he’d gotten a new job and to tell me his new phone number. You’d think that this would mean that he wanted to continue seeing me, right? Well, the phone number he gave me was the wrong one. “Oh well,” I thought–“he’s got my number. Hope he calls soon, so I can get his real number.” Nothing. Absolutely nothing. WTF? Did he give me the wrong number on purpose? If he wanted to dump me, why didn’t he just do so?

I went away to college and took that as my signal to move on, but it still bothered me for a very long time. Oh, I analyzed it to death, all right. I’ve got journals full of analysis. I needed answers. I had to know what happened. Five years later, I was able to track him down. “What happened?” I asked. “I dunno,” was the gist of his answer. He claimed that he didn’t give me the wrong number on purpose. I believe him, actually. But he could not call me. It’s as if he had no idea how to carry on a relationship when he was not forced to see me at school every day. I got the gist that he had not been able to carry on a successful relationship since that time, either. That was what was able to finally truly convince me that there was nothing wrong with me–it was him. I felt sorry for him, actually.

We hit it off as friends again just like old times, and we called each other and sent some e-mails, but eventually his return phone calls and e-mails trailed off, and I let it go. He’s a great guy in some ways, but…

The lesson here, Eva Luna, is that, sometimes, there’s nothing wrong with you at all and nothing you did wrong–it’s him, and he might not even know why he does the things he does. Unless he really is lying in a ditch or has been taking care of a suddenly-ill relative, I’d proceed with caution even if he does call you back. Don’t count on answers, because he might not even know the answers himself. You might just have to let him go and move on.

34

EvaLuna: I have been reading tihs thread ever since you posted it and have wanted to comment several times but i keep getting bumped off of this site. Good thing I’m not trying to post emergency advice as it would probably take four days. And I’m not posting advice now. Seems like you have a good support group and I would agree with many of the comments that have been made.

Your post touches me with its honesty and intensity, yet, I am responding from another perspective. I have lived your angst for the past year. I can nod and agree at the end of every sentence you write. I could and do cry also. I am responding as a mother who has watched her beautiful, talented, educated daughter dissolve into a questioning, insecure person who has begun to question her validity based on a relationship with a man. I wish to God that the first time he disappeared and stopped returning her phone calls that he would have dropped off of the face of the earth for good or was lying in a ditch. But, he resurfaces every couple of weeks and she holds out such hope that this time it will be different and he will stick around. With each reunion there are renewed promises that it will never happen again; he has issues, he doesn’t know what’s wrong with him, he loves her, it’s his problem, not hers. He’s the adult child of an alcoholic, his parents were divorced, he is afraid of someone with a lot of friends and attachments. He wants a normal life but never learned it so he just shuts down and disappears whenever things are good between them. Interesting, he sticks around during the rocky times, just not the good times. My daughter has a degree in physchology and is prone to analyzing things to death. Unfortunately, she may be analyzing he own self esteem and looks and very being to death. She feels that she understands him, she can be patient enough to help him. She can love him enough for both of them. I hate him because he sends her mixed signals and when she deciphers them she fixates on the positive. I’m so saddened to see her become a semi stalker. Seems like her pride has been attached to cement boots and it is now lying at the bottom of the river of her soul.

My daughter and i are extremely close, so she gives me every morbid detail. It breaks my heart to see this virtual stranger distrupt her being so. Her father is devestated that his only daughter has been in such an emotional quandry for over a year. I am on a see saw with her: if i bombard her with with my feelings and advice, she resents me. If I say that I don’t want to be involved, she resents me. I hate him for putting such a strain on the dynamics of my family. Quite frankly, after a year of this, I don’t give a damn about his issues. I wish that he would find another victim to smear his charm on and just leave my daughter alone. But, she is his “fix”, as she is always there with forgiveness and understanding and hope.

I can tell by your post that you are avery intelligent, loving and sensitive person. Please don’y let someone that is unappreciative of all that you have to offer cause you self doubt. And don’t drive your family and friends crazy. They don’t deserve it and neither do you.

35

EvaLuna, I had a very similar experience a few years ago. He was intelligent, fun, wonderful, responsive. We couldn’t stop talking and we thought so much alike that we could complete each other’s sentences. Beautiful, sexy, not pushy about getting to bed, skilled when we did. He obviously enjoyed me as much as I did him.

And none of it was a lie, really. Years down the road, after seeing him now with many women (I was the first in my area, the rest should have taken warning), I realized that he needs to be adored. He will do anything and everything it takes to be the center of someone’s universe. And if dumping me for the next woman was going to make him the center of her universe (and it did), then he would dump me without a second’s thought. He was really, really, really damn good at knowing what would make you think he was perfect. And the flip side of that, of course, was that he could never admit that he was behaving reprehensibly, even to himself. He convinced himself and everyone else that I had betrayed him. It drove me crazy for months, all I could think about was trying to find some closure with this man. It put enormous stress on my other (very long term, and continuing) relationship because I was always in the position of trying to defend this twerp who had hurt me.

I’m not saying that your lover was the same. But it happened once to me, and I have an excellent bullshit radar. Don’t let your need for closure and your desire to learn from this debacle make you twist on his hook for any longer. If, somehow, there was a good explanation for his actions, he will come back and you will forgive him. Until then, forget that he existed.

P.S. Go to your friends. If they are angry at him for hurting you, they are probably right.

36

I have only skimmed the recent posts, but I don’t recall anyone pointing out a very real possibility. He may have simply answered several ads and dated one or more other woman and decided to stick with another one. That’s to take nothing away from the compatability that y’all had, but sometimes crap like that happens.

Good Luck.

37

rsa, perfectly logical idea, but somehow I don’t think so. Whenever he’s contacted me, he’s basically given me my choice of dates and times to get together. If he’s been dating anyone else, she’d have to be insanely spontaneous. Of course, I can’t rule it out entirely, but even if that were the case, it doesn’t discount the fact that he’s completely blown me off.

OK, I initially vowed to myself that I’d hold out and not contact him, but on the advice of someone I know who happens to be a mental health professional whose opinion I trust, I have decided to confront him. Screw this; I need some closure. Being punched in the stomach once is still not as bad as having a knife twisted in my gut over a long period. My friend told me that since I have this extreme tendency to be nonconfrontational and give people the benefit of the doubt, even if they don’t deserve it, that I should give voice to my anger and frustration, and let him know that what he has done has been very hurtful to me.

There is always the small, but real possibility that he did have an accident or something. But if that’s not what happened, then whether he hangs up on me, gives me some bogus excuse for not calling, or dumps me straightforwardly for whatever valid or non-valid reason, at least then I know it’s over and can stop obsessing about it.

I once was blown off far, far worse than this, in an intercontinental long-distance relationship of 2-1/2 years’ duration (long story involving the fall of the Soviet Union, among other things); basically, after I sent him visa invitation papers, he disappeared, and I didn’t find out why until I called his cousin’s house and was told that my love had just become the father of another woman’s baby. I sent him a long registered letter, which was returned unclaimed several months later. No closure there for Eva Luna. But more than ten years later, I still have dreams about running into him on the street and being able to ask him why he did it. Not that his situation bears much similarity, but I need clarity when things end.

I hope this reasoning makes sense to y’all; I’m not trying to stalk him, and I’m not going to throw a screaming hissy fit, but I do need to know that he understands that he has hurt me, and that this is not acceptable behavior, even just for my own peace of mind.

I just called him on his direct work line; it went straight to voice mail. I’ll keep trying, though.

38

Well, I learned some lessons last night/this morning:

  1. Communicating with someone you care about is rarely a bad idea, even if you don’t get the exact answer you wanted.
  2. Sometimes the answer is simultaneously much simpler and much more complicated than you thought it was.
  3. Divining people’s motivations in a vacuum can produce parts of the answer, sometimes to a surprising extent, but rarely produces the whole answer.

I got home last night, and since I couldn’t concentrate on anything deeper than a dumb fashion magazine anyway, decided to write him a letter; I hadn’t yet made up my mind whether I would ever send it, but figured the act of writing would at least help me sort out my thoughts. It did, and I was struck with some moments of clarity; I had to communicate what I’d written in some manner that would allow me to know whether the message had ever been received and absorbed, even if the response made me very, very unhappy.

I finished writing a little past midnight, all about how hurt and upset I was at being blown off, how I felt I deserved better treatment since I’d always acted toward him in good faith, but how frustrated I was at the same time because I’d felt we’d had a deeper connection than that, I’d really enjoyed the time I’d spent with him, and couldn’t at all comprehend what had happened. Realizing that I wasn’t going to be at peace until the message was delivered, I decided to walk the 3 blocks to his garage, where I had a hunch he’d be up, working on the motorcycles.

I was right. He invited me to sit down while he read my letter carefully, then suggested we take a walk to the lake and try to sort it all out.

Apparently, when I responded to last Friday’s e-mail, his server (which is in Germany for some reason, BTW) burped, and he didn’t receive the reply until late that night. Thinking (somewhat irrationally, IMHO) that I’d disappeared, blown him off, or made other plans, he felt a deep sense of restlessness/sadness (if anyone knows Russian, the proper word would probably be toska) and got on his motorcycle, and went as far as Madison before eventually ending up around dawn at his brother’s house in southern Wisconsin. After crashing for a few hours, he ended up later at his sister’s place, and didn’t return home until sometime Sunday. Of course, then he got all my messages, realized what had happened, and felt like a real jerk.

The major factor playing into all this loneliness was lingering thoughts of his ex; I knew they’d broken up a few months ago, but what I didn’t know is that they’d been together for SIX YEARS, and that he’d seriously thought they were going to spend the rest of their lives together. He’s in the process of realizing that he’s still in mourning, and that he’s not really ready to date anyone yet in any kind of serious way, or possibly at all. After the last time we were together, he saw himself falling in with me again, realizing that a) this has been a pattern with him, and not always a good one; and b) on many levels we really don’t know each other all that well, in spite of the instant connection we’ve had. So feeling depressed, vulnerable, and kind of crappy about himself, he hadn’t yet been able to make himself let me know what had happened. He apologized for how he’d treated me, and vowed not to pull a stunt like that again.

Well, in the end, I’m glad that a) I made the move to communicate with him, and b) I didn’t do it in the form of a screaming hissy fit. I think if nothing else, I’ve made a friend, and a potentially close and lasting one. I’m just sorry to see him in so much pain, and sorrier that things have turned out like they have in the romance department. However, I’m also reassured that my fundamental judgments about what kind of person he is, deep down, turned out not to be mistaken.

39

“If I wanted to find out, I would just visit where I know they are, work, for example, & ask them to their face, ‘why haven’t I heard from you.?’”

Im happy you tried that because these days you just can’t depend on email to be reliable. But it doesn’t explain in your original message why he didn’t return the calls does it or does it? :
" By 9:30, I still hadn?t heard anything, so I called again. Got answering machine; left message that if he wanted to get together later"

40

handy, it only partially explains his non-response; the e-mail message wasn’t received on his end until very late Friday night, by which point he was already enroute to Madison on his motorcycle. He didn’t receive the messages until returning home Sunday night, upon which he felt like a complete idiot to the point that he apparently couldn’t manage to force himself to call me back to explain.

I think he’s been rather depressed for the past several monnths, if not longer, and is only now starting to come out of it. Having been through something similar recently, I know that it can make even reasonable people who understand their responsibilities to others feel like it’s just too hard to fulfill them; I’ve been guilty of this, too (although not with him). I’m not saying this excuses the blowoff entirely, but a) it does make me understand it better; and b) I have a very hard time being angry with anyone who is acting out of emotional pain.

Well, given that today is Rosh Hashanah, the next ten days are when God is supposedly deciding who will be inscribed in the Book of Life for the coming year. It is a time of repaying debts, forgiving grudges, making amends to those whom you have wronged, and generally clearing the slate of one’s soul. I’m not so religious (as you can tell by the fact that I’m posting on Shabbat), but I love the concept, and that’s what I plan to do.