Oh, nevermind then. I forgot it was ok to fight fire with fire or that two wrongs make a right. Silly me.
Most of us have told the OP that he’s a little screwey for thinking what he thought. He’s mostly backed off that line of thinking.
You hammer-heads, on the other hand, are still pounding away at the same tired baseless accusations.
Maybe now that your eyes are rolled into your head you can get a good look at whatever’s come undone.
SHOW ME WHERE I AM POUNDING AWAY WITH BASELESS ACCUSATIONS.
I keep planning to leave this train wreck, but maybe BIL will show up… 
This thread boils down to people taking tidbits of isolated facts, mixing in a whole bunch of imagination, and coming up with dramatic, over-reaching conclusions.
And I’m talking about both the OPer and scumpup. Alerting the authorities in either case was inappropriate because neither has a solid case against the person they suspect of wrongdoing.
Except that in one case, alerting the authorities without cause could be disasterous, whereas in the other, if Scumpup is wrong, nothing bad happens at all. And furthermore, one of the problems with trollery is that it can be very difficult to build a ‘solid case’ of it except with particularly stupid trolls.
I don’t know if the story is true. I suspect it may not be, but I also think perhaps it’s just embellished a bit, and I’m aware it could be completely true. It doesn’t really matter, however, because even taken at face value, it’s full of problems from the start.
I’m lumping you in with the people calling the OP a troll and a liar, since you seem to be in support of them. That’s the feeling I got, maybe I’m wrong. “You people” being tossed around in the general sense, not any one specific poster.
You were including me in that group with no basis. Just because I agree that there’s a possibility that the OP is trolling doesn’t mean I’m ‘hammering away’ at him. I’ve posted very little in this thread. And I know you meant more people than me, but I take offense when somebody dismisses what I’m saying on the basis of a completely false impression. It’s annoying enough that you’re doing that at all; if you must, at least try to get your facts right.
Then fucking knock it off, huh?
Explain the benefit of trying to prove someone’s a troll to begin with. What is your motivation?
There, now you’ve stated an opinion. Put the hood on after you’ve swatted the nest, have you?
Next time try to open with your best stuff.
:dubious: I said I think it is possible. Are you saying you think it’s actually impossible that the OP is a troll?
I’m not going to keep talking to you if you insist on pretending I’m someone else. I’m not trying to prove anyone is a troll. So why are you babbling nonsense at me? Saying I think someone might be is not ‘trying to prove’, and I don’t need a motivation to have that opinion. What is your motivation in thinking he’s not a troll, I might ask, but I won’t, because it would be a really stupid question.
Wow.
Leave a thread for a few hours to think and look what happens. Exactly what **Frank ** wanted.
I will not address **scumpup’s ** accusations. He’s obviously a troll/sock who’s just trying to piss people off.
I’ll also add a few things that I thought about.
I should have thoughtfully written out my OP before posting. In retrospect, it looks as if I am throwing more “evidence” into the fire to justify my suspicions. I assure you, that was not my intent.
My BIL has a “secret room”. No sin there. And as many of you have pointed out, there are many legitimate reasons for having it. When we saw the room, we didn’t immediately jump to kiddie porn! This was just one piece of a very large (albeit) incomplete puzzle. He has some unexplained income. We figured if anything, he could be just hiding his financials from his wife. This is not a good marriage, and from what I’ve seen, she has no control or access to money other than what he gives her. So, maybe that room is where he watches tv, keeps his financial history, and plays video games in private. True enough.
If you need examples of my “perhaps not insane, but just flaky SIL”, how about these?
a) Right at the beginning of summer last year, her kids were infected with lice. An unfortunate, but normal childhood thing. Did she buy the lice shampoo on the market? Did she cut the kid’s hair? No. She made all the kids sit with mayo on their heads for hours, and she combed the mayo through their hair. Maybe that’s a normal approach. I’ve never heard of it. And after hours of the mayo bath, she sat and picked the lice out of the hair one by one. It worked, but I wouldn’t call it normal.
b) She sells our gifts to the kids. That’s right. They live in a multi-million dollar home in a multi-million dollar neighborhood. And every summer, she holds a “yard sale”. I’ve seen gifts we’ve purchased for her children on the table. Is that normal? Or just odd?
c) As I’ve mentioned before, she does not permit her girls to cut her hair. Ever. No bangs, no split ends, no nothing. So they have to wear their hair pulled in a ponytail, and their hair is down to their butts. The son looks like a marine. The girls have begged my wife to take them to get their hair cut because other kids make fun of them, but they aren’t our children. The youngest one blows her bangs out of her eyes on a semi-constant basis so she can see. But cutting hair is bad.
d) when the youngest daughter was 2-3, she had a habit of pulling her hair out of her head and eating it. So, she was essentially bald on one side of her head. I’m no child psychologist, but I would think the prudent thing to do would be to give the kid a close haircut so she couldn’t pull the hair out, and maybe break the habit. SIL said NO.
e) re-read the “if her dog wasn’t invited to the wedding, her children weren’t invited either” story. How can someone make this shit up?
f) sadly, I have more. But that’s enough.
They do have money. A lot of money. And that is no sin, either. It’s just weird how it’s distributed. My SIL is on the phone with my wife complaining how they may have to take out a second mortgage to pay for (private) school lunches, and she also mentions on the same call how she racked up a $600 cell-phone bill. I don’t see a real good connection with reality here. (This call was before they stopped speaking). They have a full-time (not live in) maid. They have a landscaper. They live a very good life. And yet, these kids are dressed like ragamuffins, and they often wear clothes/shoes that don’t fit. I’d wager that my wife has purchased at least half of their clothing.
BIL is extremely disconnected from the family, except for the oldest. As people have pointed out, that can happen. Maybe he’s just a dysfunctional weirdo. That’s no crime. I don’t hate him. As I’ve pointed out, I hardly know him. He doesn’t make eye contact. He doesn’t complete sentences. He walks away from people. According to my FIL, he’s done this to him for over 20 years. But I’ll concede that he may just be a very private person.
The discussion between my wife and I was what caused me to write the OP. We compared notes. I told her what the kids did, and she was very disturbed especially by what the oldest niece did. That’s not something she did when she was 12. She did it about an hour after her brother did it, and she did it when no one was looking. The nephew did it first, but he rushed me with 2 other kids from the neighborhood and made a grab. If that was all that happened that day, I wouldn’t have thought too deeply about it. We’ve seen the lap behavior on more than one occasion. She strongly resembles her mother when she was younger. And then the room incident. Perhaps just a bunch of scraps and “vibes” that mean nothing. You may be right. I may be crazy. (I hear Billy Joel!)
This is my last post in this thread. I’ll follow it if people want to add their thoughts, suggestions, or opinions. I’m not on a witch-hunt. Don’t you think I know what the ramifications would be if my wife made a call and we were wrong? Jesus. So I post to a message board and get accused of making it up. Whatever.
I will not be joining this board. If someone wants to pony up the money to pay my membership fee, I’ll continue to post (I’m not soliciting, by the way). I enjoy the board, and have posted in other threads. (I’ve even asked a question in GD about what happens if Castro dies!) There are some intelligent people on here. But I won’t give a cent of my money to this board as long as the likes of **Frank ** are permitted to moderate. His behavior was unprofessional and he should have to answer for it. Coffee mug or no, you shouldn’t be allowed to accuse someone of trolling, and then allow others to do so on the basis of “moderator approval”. And when he decides he’s “personally involved”, he dumps his responsibility to the moderators of the Pit. Good show. How, exactly is he personally involved? Maybe he likes kiddie porn. Maybe he likes his daughter or niece to sit on his lap to grab his package. Maybe this hits too close to home. Or not. Quite Frankly, I really don’t care.
I’m just a guest who thought to try out the board. This is your board. You ultimately have to decide if you approve of Frank’s actions and you will stand for them.
As for closing this thread, I’ll leave it up to the mods of the Pit. But I do think it is a worthy discussion that you should all have as to what **Frank ** has done. You pay for this board. You shouldn’t stand for it.
Yes, it does. But that can happen, and there is a lot of information here. So in and of itself, it shouldn’t be used against you.
It’s also none of your business. I think one reason people may be responding to you badly is that you seem to be extremely rudely up in these peoples’ business in a gossipy way. Other people’s finances are like one of the primary things you keep your nose out of in life.
Will you also concede that these things are NOT signs of a child molestor in any way?
Another reason people are having a problem with you is that despite your protests that you know you may be crazy, you’re clinging very hard to things like ‘the room incident’, when THERE WAS NO INCIDENT, and the resemblance to her mother, which frankly, whatever. That also means nothing at all.
Finally, every single time you mention Frank or entreat people to stand up for their rights against the mods, you get another point in the troll column. It’s only the fact that Frank probably did step out of line that redeems you at all here, but frankly, the way you turned it into a banner to march under immediately is not doing you any favors.
I’m not calling you a troll right now. I’m explaining why some of us think you may be, in case you aren’t and don’t want to give that impression in the future.
Ok, I lied. Ensign Edison makes some good, valid points. I’ll address them, and then bow out.
It shouldn’t, but it has. I can understand why. As I mentioned, I should have taken the time to lay out my thoughts before posting. I can take the lumps on that one.
You are right. It isn’t my business. But I’m only talking to my wife. And the SIL has asked us for money, so I think I have some right to know why they need our financial help to pay for things when they clearly don’t. But, I don’t have to give them money, or buy their kids clothes/presents. Fair enough. As far as showing an interest in his finances, it is only a conversation my wife and I have had. MY BIL, on the other hand has asked us every year to do our taxes. He’s very interested in our finances, and has asked everyone else in the family to do their taxes as well. As far as I know, we have all declined.
absolutely.
I guess you had to be there. I’m not clinging to anything. And I also concede that the oldest daughter looking like her mother may mean absolutely nothing at all. You are right.
I didn’t know there was a troll column. I have to be honest. I don’t care what strangers on a board think of me. If you believe I’m a troll, I’m a troll. But your “evidence” is just as shaky as my “evidence” of my BIL. I’m not marching under any banner. It’s your board. You decide. That’s all I said. I’m not looking for any favors.
I understand. Thank you for your thoughts and point of view. Believe it or not, I appreciate it.
Now, I bow out.
This I do agree with.
I hope, though, in making that statement, you can see why you really can’t contact CPS yet. Like everyone else I absolutely encourage you to keep your eyes open, talk to your neice, and wait to make a report when you have something other than vibes.
He might have, but the OP is having problems sewing the little buttons on for eyes. 
I agree with **Scumpup.
**
The story- it’s changes, it’s odd details, it’s improbaility, and so forth, combined with the OP’s odd posting familiarity here, lead me to the same conclusion. I am a trained investigator, and although I admit it’s hard to tell if someone is lying just by reading what they type, there are indications. Now, the evidence isn’t strong I’ll admit. But it’s far stronger than (assuming the story is true) the evidence of any "BiL: being a child pornographer or a molestor.
Has the OP made such an accusation?
For such a secretive guy, he’s not keeping the secret room very secret, is he? I hope Fort Knox doesn’t leave the doors open and unlocked on their secret rooms when they are having a party. Let’s not call it a secret room because it’s far from secret. It’s a private room and that is all. The fact that it’s hooked up to the home security system on the home doesn’t seem remarkable - why wouldn’t you want security on a room that houses possibly-expensive computer equipment? It seems like it would make more sense to add it to the existing system than to install a separate system.
Now, I know that we’ve told people we have a bedroom (yes, it’s true!), and we told people when we were repainting the room and we’ve taken people in to see the finished room, but if a visitor to our house just up and walked in there without permission or notice, I’d give them a hostile look because that’s our private space and I’m not comfortable with that. BIL’s reaction isn’t incomprehensible to me if he considers that his private space. If he’s like me, he wouldn’t find it contradictory to take people in to see a private space but resent them strolling in without his knowledge.
Your BIL sounds like a selfish man living in a loveless marriage, a man who doesn’t take the trouble to conceal the fact that his oldest child is his favourite… but while that doesn’t make him Father of the Year, it also doesn’t make him a child pornographer (that accusation sitting right there in the title grabs my attention whenever I come back to see how this thread is progressing). Frankly the SIL sounds like she has bigger problems than he does, but even then… so she doesn’t like long hair on boys or short hair on girls, so what? Many other people feel the same way - my own MIL wouldn’t let her daughters cut their hair until they were in their teens when their pleas for a haircut turned to insistance. I didn’t agree, but I didn’t think it was an example of a bad or abusive home, or that it meant MIL was mentally ill. She just thought young girls look better with long hair, and as their mother that was her call to make. Some people have a religious belief against cutting hair. Why would you even bring this up in this thread? I’ve seen small boys and toddlers with mullets and “rat’s tails” that I personally think are far more repulsive than poorly maintained long hair, but I didn’t use that fact as evidence to try to prove that their parents are mentally ill.
Your SIL used a home remedy to remove headlice and by your own admission it was effective but you think she should have purchased chemicals to do the same job? Why? The mayo-and-fine-tooth-comb treatment obviously had the same end result, unconventional though it may have been. I caught headlice while babysitting when I was 19 and found the most effective way to get rid of them from my long, thick hair was to use a fine tooth comb religiously as the headlice preparations from the chemist cost a fortune and were too difficult to apply to so much hair. I got to keep my long hair and get rid of the lice so I chalk that up as a success. Your SIL was also trying to get rid of head lice from long hair without resorting to the scissors.
No bangs except the ones in her eyes, eh? I always had to have bangs cut, they weren’t something that grew in naturally but each of us are different. Still, if one of your nieces does have bangs then maybe there is a certain amount of haircutting going on.
You do realise that sometimes you don’t have to say something to someone and yet they will still sense that you disapprove of them, right? You may not have confronted BIL or made waves in the family about it, but when I read about your disapproval of his lifestyle, his hobbies, his private space, his wife, the way he dresses his children, the way he spends his money, his social life and so on, I wonder if you are not somehow transmitting your disapproval to him without even realising it. That would explain his hostility and his withdrawal, and would be another reason why he wouldn’t want his wife and children around the family members who he suspects of sitting in judgement of him.
Finally, the grabbing incident that you are now so concerned about apparently didn’t even warrant inclusion in your OP. If it was so significant and such a red flag for you, why didn’t it make the first post? If it was such a shocking incident that it made you sit up and take notice of what were previously vague suspicions, how did it slip your mind? If you believe your niece is being abused but don’t see any warning signs that BIL might be abusing her brother, why do you think he exhibited the same behaviour on the same day, and before she did? If crotch-grabbing is a sign that she is being abused, then do you think he is also being abused even though the father doesn’t show any interest in him? If she is the only one being abused then what other reason could he have had for grabbing you? I know you can’t give factual answers to these questions but I’d be curious to know what conclusions you can draw by re-analysing the incident in this context because it seems to me that the crotch grabbing incident has significant implications for both children if it indicates abuse, or is an irrelevant detail if only one child has been abused because the other “safe” child did it too.
He strongly implied it. Someone else already dug up the exact quote, it’s in here somewhere. What do you think he means with all the “unknown income” talk? The OP had specifically linked that with the “secret room” and the child molesting, and implied that he seriously considered the possibility, at least. And to jump from those things to the production, or even possession of child pornography (which the OP thought likely enough to put right in the title) is obviously absurd.
If she doesn’t even let the girls TRIM their hair, that’s a problem. Even the longest of long hair needs the split ends trimmed.
My (evil, evil) husband had his sisters convinced that hair bleeds when you cut it, a story they believed until they were somewhere around 10 years of age. He got away with that because they’d never experienced having their hair cut or trimmed - their mother wanted it that way.
There are people who dislike cutting hair for ANY reason, even to keep it neat and get rid of the split ends. It may seem odd to the rest of us, but that hardly warrants citing it as evidence of bad parenting/mental illness/neglect, or whichever combination of these kurahee was trying to prove.