*She’s your mother-in law-haw,
She’s from Arkansaw.
The kind of girl who’d rob from Peter
And write a bad check to Paul.
She’s gotten out of hand.
She oughta be a congressman.
She’s the kinda Lady that I can’t stand and she’s your mother-in-law.
Oh, she’s the generic brand and she’s my mother-in-lawwwwwwwww.*
Apologies to eleanorigby and to Tim Wilson, I just couldn’t resist.
Recovering alcoholic here.
Sounds like he needs to go back into an intesive program. As in, take leave from work and focus on getting better. It’s an ongoing process, and if he isn’t keeping tabs on himself, he needs to get help to do it (not primarily from you beause you don’t have the backgroud to know what to do yet).
My breaking point was when my fiance threatened to leave. I realized that I didn’t want to give what we had up for booze. I’m not saying you should do this, but maybe he hasn’t reached his breaking point yet?
I should add (now that I’m reading the rest of the thread) that I am also anti-AA. I don’t like the God aspect of it, even though they all say it can be whatever higher power you want. So, I go to SMART Recovery . It doesn’t have anything to do with religion, the focus is on Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy , which basically teaches that your beliefs and morals dictate your actions, and by changing your beliefs and morals you can change how you react in certain situations (i.e.: I’m stressed out and had a bad day therefore I need a drink to cope, to I’m stressed and had a bad day so I should go for a run or cook a nice meal to relax.).
They also do a lot of things like Cost Benefit Analysis, where you make a chart of the pro’s and con’s of being an addict vs. the pro’s and con’s of not being an addict, and chart your progress from one side to the other.
It’s interesting, science-based, and logical, and it’s a perfect fit for me. I hate mushy stuff, I love logical stuff.
Eleanorigby, are you getting help for yourself? Have you tried Al-Anon? You shouldn’t have to live with this much pain. 
Some one close to me was in this situation. He said to her “If you don’t quit drinking, I will leave you.”
She didn’t.
He did.
Three weeks later, she said she would quit drinking. He said fine, but if she began drinking again, he would leave for good.
Their twenty-eighth anniversary was last month.
Regards,
Shodan
I left the statements that sounded pertinent. It sounds like you’re close to making a decision, but are feeling guilty about it. So just separate for a while, and when he’s clean for a certain amount of time, move back in together. If he wises up, great. If he doesn’t, it’s better for you in the long run, and thank god there’s no kids involved.
Here’s my question to you: If he cheated on you, would you stay? Now, keep that answer in mind when you read the following:
Have you ever been cheated on and tried to work through the relationship? It’s not pretty or easy, and much of the work is on you, the injured party to get past his falterings. For me, dealing with someone’s drug abuse is much the same, same breach of trust:
You wonder where he’s been during those lost hours, what’s that funny smell, who of his friends knows about his actions and are covering for him, who in the room has participated with him. Is he using marital money to entertain his muse? What’s that strange phone number on his phone (in the case of drug abuse)? How long will it take for you to stop looking for clues and cues, and how patient is he going to be while you heal from his actions? (IME they’re not very patient in this respect)
Are you prepared for the resentment you might feel down the road, i.e. look at the life we could have had together if you’d only gotten your shit together? Are you prepared to have ‘normal’ be somethign he thinks should be applauded like a kindergartner? Who will YOU be able to lean on, since he will be needing to lean on you for support?
No one aspires to divorce, but life’s too short to pick miserable. Email me if you’d like to talk more.
One thing to keep in mind is that you’re not helping him by staying. You’re doing all the hard work of giving him attention, cleaning up his messes, keeping his house together, etc. You’re doing your best to insulate him from the consequences of getting drunk, and by doing so, you’re making it easier for him to get drunk.
I’m not saying this to be harsh. I understand completely where you are, and I’m not judging. I’m only trying to push you to look at your situation from a different perspective.
This is the heart of the matter here. I don’t know if giving ultimatums and forcing him to quit for you is the way to go; it seems to me like trying to do something for someone else is a recipe for failure. Yeah, go to Al-Anon and talk to them about stuff like this. They should be well experienced with all the ins and outs of living with an alcoholic.
And don’t let his crap and his excuses fool you; he is an alcoholic, not just an ‘abuser of alcohol.’ You don’t have to drink every day to be an alcoholic. It sounds to me like he is trying everything he can to avoid actually doing what he knows he needs to do to quit.
One simple question for you - what do you want to do? If you sit by yourself and ask yourself that question until you get an answer that makes you cry, you’ll probably know what to do.
As an alcoholic I really do sympathize with your situation. I tried a two week outpatient program mainly in a last gasp attempt to save my marriage. It didn’t work. I’m not a doctor but I really believe there are addictive personalities. On our breaks from meetings and such everyone and I do mean everyone smoked and drank coffee.
I have tried quitting for a month at a time and think that It’s ok for me to have a beer or two while watching the football game…wrong! An alcoholic simply can’t stop until he gets the buzz on. I chose alcohol over my second wife and I lost nearly everything that is worth having.
I don’t mean to sound harsh but you need to make a choice soon. You can learn to live with it if you love him that much but that still is not a real great idea. My father is an alcoholic and my mother pretends to be happy but I know she really isn’t. They are nearing their 50th wedding anniversary and she told me she is just used to it.
If he isn’t willing to stop drinking he isn’t worth having.
Ah, but it IS true. You are the one to decide whether you will put up with his drinking; however, you can not make him stop. By assuming that this is part your problem, you run the very real risk that you will blame yourself when he runs his car into a bridge abuttment or blows his liver up.
Persoally, I’ve seen the damage and destruction that alcoholics create around them, and would not tolerate it. I’d be packing my bags. However, that is your decision.
IMO you are misinterpreting this. His drinking is NOT your problem – his drunken behavior is your problem. There’s a real difference. Theoretically, he could become a “better” drunk, and not drive, or pee on the floor. Unlikely as this is to happen, if it did it would be a real improvement.
OTOH, what if he didn’t drink at all, but was on his best behavior up until the wedding, and started acting like a pig later, for other reasons. Would you be any happier?
Maybe another way of saying it is that the reasons for should not and cannot matter to you as much as the facts of his behavior. Different reasons for bad behavior might suggest different regimens of treatment, but he is unwilling to be treated, or if he is treated and the treatments fail, then you must make your decisions on whether his ultimate behavior is acceptable or not.
Walk away. Walk away. Walk away.
One of my brothers and a BIL are alcoholics who won’t seek help. They are ruining their wives’ and kids’ lives and terrify my poor mother with their violence, DUIs, and generally reckless lives. I have only cursory contact with them, because everything they touch turns to shit.
This is really easy for me to say, because I’ve never had to make that kind of decision. I can’t imagine what it must be like to have to.
But it seems to me that the salient fact is, when he drinks he chooses alcohol over you. He chooses it over your marriage and your family. And it’s not just once - he makes that choice over and over again. If he can’t decide that he loves you more than drinking, and that he values your relationship more, then IMHO he isn’t doing what it takes to participate in that relationship.
ETA - Boyo Jim has an excellent point. If he peed on the floor because he was an asshole instead of because he’s a drunk, would you leave? Because I’d leave. Just because it’s alcohol-related doesn’t take his actions out of context or excuse them.
I know I can’t address everything that’s been said, but I do have a few thoughts.
First, everyone who is debating whether or not I understand the idea that “it’s not my problem” can stop trying to explain it to me. I get it. I’ve never for a second felt responsible for his actions. It’s his problem. He has to fix it. I haven’t tried to “fix” it, but I have tried to support his efforts, whatever they may be. To date, all of those efforts have failed. Only my husband could know why they failed, but I don’t think even he understands it.
I’ve already told him that one more drink and I’m out. Absolutely. I’ve also said that I might leave even if he doesn’t drink. At this point, I’m trying to really evaluate how much damage has been done to our relationship. Can it recover if he stays sober? Or will my thoughts and feelings always be colored by his addiction?
People stay together all the time. Only you can decide if your marriage is worth saving and if you can “wait it out” long enough to see if the new pattern is REALLY a new pattern. Maybe a long-term separation will give you some perspective. I wish you strength and peace.
Frankly, based on his previous behaviour, you won’t have long to wait before you have to decide if you’ll fallow through on your ultimatum. You might as well wait.
StG
We went to marriage counseling twice during 2 different decades. I should have left long ago, but that is my choice that I did not. The second round of counseling, he went twice, and I went for a few years. He wouldn’t engage. There’s nothing wrong with him, you see and if you “just go along to get along” with his mom, it all works out in the end. Or so he believes. I can’t live like that.
We are attempting to separate (which sounds so simple, but not when his job is threatened and I was in grad school and the kids and the and the and the and the…). We rarely fight or even spat anymore. It’s all very civil, really. So, yes I’ve gotten help (and I myself am still reeling about my spewage here-I thought I had some perspective and distance on all this, but I guess not as good as I thought), and I am trying to move forward. Thing is, MIL will always be a part of my life, through the kids. Divorcing him doesn’t get rid of her, and that is what I’d most like. Plus, she lives about a mile from us.
So, not to blather on, but I appreciate your concern but no one needs to worry about me. He is looking into rental properties at present. Thing is, it’s more like trying to get gum off your shoe than say a swift blow to the head. It’d be easier if there were a line of demarcation I could look at and say: there, that was the last straw and out goes you. But it’s more whimper than bang.
Sorry to sidetrack. IMO, a separation would be good for the OP. If he doesn’t go to AA, how will you know go through your life thinking, is today the day he drinks? That sucks for both of you.
If you are involved with a practicing alcoholic, you are playing a bit part in a never ending movie that the alcoholic produces, directs, and stars in.
I don’t remember where I heard that but I know from bitter experience that it is true. You might want to think about being a bit player in his movie or being a star in your own.
I was in a relationship with an alcoholic for 7 years. I went through the worrying, the pain, the frustration, everything. I finally realized that she was never going to change. There were times when she seemed to realize it was a problem and would talk about “cutting back”. Sometimes she’d even quit for a month or two. Then it was always the same thing “Well, what’s wrong with me having a couple?”, and right back into it again. She just didn’t see it as a problem, although her alcoholism affected pretty much every aspect of her life, relationships, jobs, health, etc.
I felt so horrible after we broke up though. Like I’d left a drowning person to die. We were pretty much happy when she was sober. I felt like I had failed somehow, like maybe if I had found the right combination of words or actions, or maybe just tried harder, she would have been able to quit. I eventually came to the realization that it wasn’t my fault, and there was nothing I could have done, but it was still tough to deal with. One thing that helped me was to remind myself that her alcoholism was existed before I came into the picture, and would be there long after I left.
Red Stilettos, he’s made broken promise after broken promise. He refuses to get help with AA or another organization of people that could provide a lot of help and support. It’s affecting you personally and changing who you are, you said. The bad times are spilling over into and spoiling everything else. So my answer to two of your questions are: How many times can he fail? Every time. Sorry to sound harsh, but it sounds to me like he’s just making promises for you, not for himself. When is it too much? Sounds like it is already…
I’m really sorry, but it sounds to me like the only decision you can make at this point is to leave and let him drown or stay and be dragged down with him.
Everything I want to say has probably been said by other posters, but hey, I’m going to chime in anyhow.
This time may feel different, and it might be different. This one could be the one. But you need to be prepared for it not to be. You’ve already told him, one more drink and I’m gone. You need to stick to that. Have a plan in place so that when the time comes to leave, you will be protected physically, financially and emotionally. Well, scrap that last one, because the emotional fall out is something you won’t be able to avoid…you’ll be crying a lot. But you will survive.
How did he quit drinking the last time, before you met him? Has he tried that method again…if not, why not? If it worked, even for a few years, is he trying that again now?
It’s very hard to give up on the dream of a happy life with someone you love, and you are going to feel like crap. People will try to tell you that you shouldn’t give up so easily…but just remind yourself that they aren’t the ones walking on eggshells every minute of every day. And if you don’t make the decision now…the next time he drinks…what possible good can come of waiting longer? This could be the catalyst he needs…and if it isn’t, well, you’ve saved yourself years and years of pain.
It’s possible to still love someone, and wish them well, and help them…and not stay married to them. At some point your own self-preservation is more important, and getting out sooner rather than later makes much more sense. Don’t wait until you have two children and no money and you’ve packed on weight in a vain attempt to soothe the pain and damaged your health and your body. Giving up on a marriage because the other person has broken their vows is not shameful. Oh, you’ll feel like a failure, but in time you will realize that sometimes we need failure to teach us how to succeed.
I went to one Al-Anon meeting, and decided it wasn’t for me, not because merely of the “it’s not your problem” fallacy, but because everyone there seemed to be so much worse off than me…I truly felt that my husband’s alcoholism wasn’t “bad” enough after listening to the testimonies of the others. I realized that feeling that way was part of my problem, and that I needed another way to deal with the situation. This was probably a mistake…I think my kids could have used the support.
I’ve gotten a lot of help from a statement I heard on the Dr. Joy Brown show…“You can’t change the behavior of others, you can only change your reaction to their behavior.” As hard as that is to admit, that you can’t make someone change, or want to change, it is so fundamental to healing. I would let my husband’s behavior affect me so negatively…I would get into this pattern of response that accomplished absolutely nothing. Once I learned that I had to change how I responded, I felt more confident. This didn’t happen until years after the divorce, however…let that be a lesson to you! Don’t be me!
There is no magic wand. There is no happy ever after. There is only surviving, and a failed marriage is the least amount of collateral damage if you get out at this point. And no one who has a lick of sense, or has dealt with an alcoholic, will blame you is you choose to either separate for a while, or to head right to divorce. Remember (as my minister reminded me) it is HE who has broken the marriage and his vows by his behavior, not you. My church, at least, does not blame someone in this type of situation for ending the marriage.