All Diablo2 Talk here.........

[iampunha]

*Originally posted by Chronos *
So magic and gold find works on a golem? I didn’t know that.

As far as I’ve seen, they do. Remember this: the iron golem takes on the properties of the item it’s made of. I’ve made iron golems leech life back (with a shadowfang, for example), and Wandering Agnostic has had Tired (as in, with a Tir in 'em) items give 2 mana to the golem per kill (looks much like mana leech).

But give us some perspective here: With all that rig, how much gold does a cow, say, drop? I had always figured that you could get more gold by collecting and selling items, and there’s also the chance that you’ll find the item outright that you would have wanted to gamble, anyway. Of course, I suppose that you’re also going to have half-decent magic find, there, between the Wealths, the Ali Baba, Rhyme, Chance Guards, and Goldwrap (don’t forget to give your hireling Wealth, too).

1: With an amazon running with perfect Chances, Goldwrap (79%) and wealth (no other GF items), I was getting around 1K gold per cow that actually dropped gold (they don’t all always drop. I’d say around 50% if you’re lucky?) in hell cows with 8 players. Strictly by the numbers I’d be looking at well over 2K gold per dropping cow in NM. Wandering Agnostic and I are hoping to piggyback on some bloodyrun games and so get the goldfind of 8 people while having only two pick it up:D

2. You can get lots of gold selling items (the typical one to me is flawless gems, which sell for 7.5K each). However, it’s a lot easier to max one’s cube picking up items than it is to max a char’s gold holding abilities (lvl 80 can hold 800K gold on-char, and something near 2 mil in stash).

3. Yer absolutely right:) And I’ve found lots of fun stuff (including my eaglehorn, my occy, entire Tal set, etc) in cows. But what I hear is that cow magic (i.e. non-gold) drops are going to be nerfed further.

4. Hireling will be getting wealth, as I have it at least once and don’t exactly have to break the bank to make it 5 or 6 more times. At this point it’s a matter of socketing armor when I find it.

5. I’ll be running this with a horkbarb (you can well imagine the gear. I’ll detail it for anyone interested). So whatever the necro doesn’t pop will lget horked. Lvl … 15 hork? Something nice and high. Will also help the necro with his mana-intensive spams (CE, at times, and definitely BSpirit. Opted for that above BSpear because I want the necro to be killing stuff).

Also don’t forget to put a point into Life Tap to keep the golem alive (unless that doesn’t work with golem thorns any more?).

I considered putting more points in lifetap, but I didn’t think it would be all that important…golems regen, and this one will have 6K+ life. It’s like a supervamped valkyrie with more damage, causes more damage with thorns and regens life. But 1 is a prereq for something I used (I’m going to be using both decrep and lower res), so I’m set. And of course I’ll have a bit of +skills for my health and such.

And for somewhat less defense, you might consider Mage Plate (55 str) instead of Dusk Shroud.

I considered that, but [bWandering Agnostic** and I thought that the extra 200 defense would come in handy, and as I figured it, with the shield type we’re going to be using (Grim. Str req of 67), the extra 10-ish stat points don’t really make or break the char either way. So we’re going with defense of high 300s, low 400s instead of defense mid 200s.

One other point: Don’t get too attached to a golem. No matter how indestructible it is, things happen. If you die, it dies. It’s just as vulnerable to things like MSLE conviction as you are, should you be unlucky enough to encounter one (more so, actually, since it’s stupid).

True, but a guy with 6K+ life in NM probably wouldn’t be all that hurt by MSLE Conv:)

And if it somehow gets left behind you and teleports to catch up (this can happen even with insane speed pets), it can miss and teleport off into the aether, never to return.

I’ve seen this happen with valkyries, but it never occured to me that it could happen with golems. I won’t be running any arcane, though, so that should help things out some.

Finally, why a necro? A sorceress wearing that gear could kill a lot more reliably, and all you’re gaining from the necro is the Wealth-y golem (consider that it’s not going to be making most of the kills). Mightn’t it be worthwhile to use a sorceress and play in Hell?

Any sorc I’d make for killing speed would rely too heavily on +mana/skills/cast rate to be effective at GFing, and any I made for GF would kill too slowly. I have a sorc made for rushing, and she does fairly well with her gear, but if she didn’t have it she’d be shot to hell.

voltaire reminds me yet again about the GF on chances. Well, that just shoots our number up:D And I’ll be going between ladder and non-ladder. More ladder than non, but given the fact that it’ll be especially hard to lvl past 70 in 1.10, I figured it beneficial to make the char now. And if it ends up not working as well as I’d hoped … eh. I’ve wasted dozens of hours on chars before (several in the lvl 80s).

[voltaire]

Sometimes it’s easy to confuse life leech with regen. Unfortunately, life leech on an item doesn’t help an Iron Golem made from that item. Also, the below source doesn’t seem to think that GF on items made into IGs helps. In this case, the IG would be just like any other minion and use your GF (and MF) for kills.

What would REALLY be cool is if GF on an item made into an IG would cause them to “find gold” and run around picking it all up for you! I’d sign a petition for THAT!

From the IG FAQ on diabloii.net:

What item properties work with the Iron Golem?

%Enhanced damage

• Min/Max damage
  Elemental damage
  Chance for % deadly strike
  Chance for crushing blow
  Attacker takes damage, including elemental damage
  +% Damage to Undead or Demons
  Cast spell on attack
  Cast spell on hit
  Cast spell when hit
  Chance for % open wounds
  Faster by % run/walk
  Faster hit recovery %
  Hit blinds target
  Hit slows target by %
  Prevent monster heal
  Knockback
  Hit causes monster to flee

Resistances - see question about resistances below.

Defense vs Melee and Missile
Damage reduced works both by % and amount
Magic damage reduced
Can not be frozen
Fire, Lightning and Cold absorb.

(There is no resistance or defensive effect that a golem cannot use.)

Light Radius also works.
What item properties do not work?

Life leech

Additional hp and % increase to life or mana

Boosts to attributes like Energy, Vitality, Dextery or Strength

Replenish life or + to regeneration will not increase golem heal rate. There is no way to increase a golem’s heal rate.

Most +skills or 1-3 to skills will not work. You cannot make a golem with abilities from other classes like nova, whirlwind, veangeance or conviction.

Magic find. Gold find proably doesn’t work either. The golem uses the MF and GF of the Necromancer who cast it.

2 handed damage is not used.

Increased Attack Rating (AR).

What effects do Socketed or Runeword items have?

They will be carried over if the effects they possess are in the works on Iron Golem list. An emerald socketed sword will pass poison damage to the resulting Iron Golem. If a runeword is changed or deactivated, your golem will be affected.
What effect does making an Iron Golem from an indestructable or self repairing item have?

None. The Golem gains no benefit from either ability. He will not heal faster, or become invincible.

[Chronos]

A golem getting mana per kill? But golems don’t have mana! And even if it did have mana, how would you know it? You can’t open up a golem’s info like you can with a hireling. As for surviving, if this thing is really equivalent to a valk in life and defensive abilities, I can guarantee that it won’t last forever against cows. With my bowazon, I have to re-cast my valk several dozen times per cow run, and a plain lightning enchanted (without MS or Conviction) will usually kill her.

By the way, forgive my ignorance, but “hork” is find item, right? It’s never seemed too useful to me, but then, I’ve never put much into it. At most, though, it’s going to double your item finds, right? Isn’t it easier to use some other character build to just kill twice as many things to begin with?

And I’ve never found cows to drop much in the way of useful items, but they do tend to drop valuable stuff. They seem to have an affinity for nonmagical wands/scepters/orbs and the like which sell for tens of thousands.

[Yeticus_Rex]

I found a Hellslayer Axe last night…is that worth an Ist or Vex rune?

I use Chance Guards on Hell Cows and usually get 1.5-2K per gold drop also…and I do take the time collecting the gold for some obsessed reason…(and no, I don’t pick pennies up off the street or sidewalk…unless they are wheatbacks…)

[Who_me_1]

Hellslayer was worth 1 soj, when soj’s were worth anything. I doubt you could get those runes for it.

That said, I was helping to rush some guys last night. After we killed Baal I gave the assasin (who was the co-rusher with me) a Bartucs. He had one already, but wasn’t going to turn down a second. One of the rushees stayed around and I gave him an ammy or something and the assasin asked if I would trade him my Windforce. I told him no… then he told me what he would give me for it…

So now I don’t have my wf anymore, I’ll have to made due with the Buriza I had as my backup weapon for Phys immunes. But now I have a Vampire Gaze, a Lightsabre, a T-Gods, and best of all the IK armor which completes my IK set!

I’m going to see if I can use one or all of the first three to regain a wf. If I can…BONUS!!!

[Fenris]

Ok, I’m finished Nightmare a bit back and have run through the Cow level and didn’t get shit. Nada. Zilch. No greens, no rares, one spectaularly crappy unique, a couple of flawless gems and no runes. My MF is up to like 150% or so. What’s going on?

[Fenris]

BTW I’m playing a bow-based Amazon and the best thing I’ve ever found is a Skystryke bow. What am I doing wrong?

[Yeticus_Rex]

Fenris, I would just go straight to hell (I mean take your character there)…and boost your mf closer to 200-250…

[iampunha]

But now I have a Vampire Gaze, a Lightsabre, a T-Gods, and best of all the IK armor which completes my IK set!

I’m going to see if I can use one or all of the first three to regain a wf. If I can…BONUS!!!

A Tgod’s will not fetch a WF. A Wamp Gaze won’t either, I think. IK might be able to, but it’s still a reach. The LS and IK armor would give you a better shot.

Fenris, run cows until your eyes bleed. Run them over and over and over again. I am fortunate if I find 2 or 3 items worth keeping from Hell Cows when I run it with 500+ mf. 150 will yield the occasional happy surprise but you’re more likely to find nice jewelry and jewels than anything else.

If you play on battlenet, find me some time when I’m on USEast and I’ll hook you up with a nice bow.

[Sinful]

…Everytime I see this thread bumped, I get my hopes up thinking that news of 1.10 being released has made it here.

[iampunha]

Check http://diabloii.net for news of that sort, Sinful.

When it does come out, I for one won’t be bumping this thread … I’ll be playing the ladder:D

Oh. BTW, Yeticus, I wouldn’t trade that Hellslayer if I were you. It makes a fab weapon for a barb or a druid (I’m using it on a ww druid atm) … better than a cruel Thunder Maul, IK maul, an Honor Ogre or Thunder Maul, etc. I haven’t checked it against a Cranium Basher or a Messerschmidt’s Reaver yet, but only because I have neither. The min damage is not that spectacular (100), but the max dmg is very good (scales, which is excellent) and the fire damage helps with PIs (as does the % cast fire ball). Add in the fact that the min dex is 33 and you can pretty well pump str to 300 without breaking a sweat. Fury takes care of that, with a 204% bonus to AR with lvl 23 Fury (which is really very easy to get … +1 skills helm, +2 amulet). Add an AR GC (100+ AR) in there, maybe two, and you’re doing fairly decently. I’d probably bump up dex to around 70, but more because there’s no blocking there so you’ll need more dex to get the % to be hit down. Another thing you can do is, since Hellslayer adds 0.5 str/lvl, just pump dex a touch instead of adding one str per lvl. That’ll give you 40 more dex at lvl 81, which puts you at 73. And that’s ignoring other items, such as Lionheart, which would add 15 to dex (as well as some other useful stats. If this thing had Cannot Be Frozen nobody would ever go with Duriel’s Shell), and Jalal’s Mane, which adds 20% to AR (as well as +20 str and a HUGE bonus to Fury), Arreat’s Face (same sort of thing but for a barb and with some leech and +20 dex), or Bloodfist, which are probably one of the most popular gloves for non-casting chars (huge life bonus, IAS, FHR, +5 min).

[Monster104]

I haven’t played the game in a while, but I log in every now and then to make sure my 2 accounts don’t get deleted. I’ve got so many different items that I should be able to trade for whatever I need, once the patch comes out.

[Fenris]

*Originally posted by iampunha *
**Fenris, run cows until your eyes bleed. Run them over and over and over again. I am fortunate if I find 2 or 3 items worth keeping from Hell Cows when I run it with 500+ mf. 150 will yield the occasional happy surprise but you’re more likely to find nice jewelry and jewels than anything else.

If you play on battlenet, find me some time when I’m on USEast and I’ll hook you up with a nice bow. **

Wait…I thought it was like a quest and you could only use it once per adventure (regular/nightmare/hell) like a quest…um…you can’t run a quest more than once per adventure can you? (I’d love to have that damned blacksmith socket a bunch of stuff or toss stuff at Charsi to see if I can get something decent for a change.)

I do play on Battlenet (although I usually play by myself) but I’m on USWest. Dammit. I can’t get there from here, right?

And I can’t get through Hell. I’m either WAY underpowered or WAY low level (56 level, if I’m reading their crappy font correctly). I can’t even manage to free Decard Cain in Hell dammit.

I’m getting very frustrated. Anyone have any suggestions?

[Evil_Death]

*Originally posted by Fenris *
**Wait…I thought it was like a quest and you could only use it once per adventure (regular/nightmare/hell) like a quest…um…you can’t run a quest more than once per adventure can you? **

Not without hacking - but you don’t see the Cow level on the quest list, do you? No, it’s just an area of the game like any other, so the monsters in it respawn when you reload the game.

However, to access the Cow Level you have to fit two criteria. On the difficulty of the game you are in, you must have:

1. Killed Baal.
2. Not killed the Cow King.

Only if both these conditions are met will the recipe to open the portal work. So if you killed the King on your first run, you can’t go back.

[Munch]

The cow level IS a quest - you just don’t see it on your quest screen. To complete it, you must kill the cow king. Kill the king and you can’t create the portal.

Fenris, are you running single player? I have a feeling your gear is underpowered and that you don’t have enough dexterity. Post your gear and skill allocation and I’ll see what I can do for you. Amazons are my specialty. Level 56 is low, but not terribly low.

[iampunha]

Well, if it’s any consolation, Fenris, I can help you out getting your char to the mid 80s, if not better, if you feel like starting over and making a char on USEast.

Level 56 is high enough, with proper gear, to be able to tank NM cows if necessary. But to survive with any comfort you’d really need proper gear.

[Chronos]

[quote]
I have a feeling your gear is underpowered and that you don’t have enough dexterity.

[quote]
To elaborate: For a bowazon, you want just enough strength to use the best bows (a little over 100, or 110 for a Buriza), and all the rest into dex. Dex is everything for a bowazon. 5% mana steal is enough to power any combination of skills, so you don’t need energy, and your life will be low, but that’s OK, since you should never get hit.

Meanwhile, I owe Duriel an apology. I just killed him on Nightmare with my new frenzybarb, and he gave me the IK helmet. Well, it’s a start, at least, and it was nice of him to give a good item directly to a character who can use it.

[Fenris]

Shit. I killed the damn Cow King. :mad:

And I breezed through the Nightmare Cow Level. And got shit.

But I’m in hell and…well…I’m in hell.

My stats: (_)=modified stat due to an item(s)

St: (88)
Dx: (128)
Vi: 74
En: (131)

If I wear my normal stuff, rather than my MF stuff, she’s using Sander’s Cap and Boots, Skystryke edge bow, Heavenly Garb light plate (with a perfect topaz in it) and and a couple o’ rings that up her attack rating and MF, gloves that add +3 to bow and crossbow skills and an amulet that adds +1. Her belt is the “Nightsmore” belt that adds to her manna and resistances. But not wearing the MF stuff drops my MF a lot.

Also, I’ve heard a rumor that it’s a bad idea to use cold-based attacks: monsters (allegely) tend to drop far, FAR less loot when they’re killed with cold (something about being turned to ice lowers their chance to drop stuff). Bullsh*t? Or Trufact?

BTW: 'Punha: I really appreciate the offer, but I’m not quite ready to abandon ship quite yet. (Dammit, there should be a way to migrate characters across servers. Am I the only West player?)

BTW[sup]2[/sup]: As an aside, I really appreciate everyone taking the time to help and offer advice!

Fenris

[Chronos]

Dammit, there should be a way to migrate characters across servers. Am I the only West player?

I would be, if I ever played online. I’ll probably start a ladder character once the new patch goes live.

As for your gear: Don’t bother sticking a topaz in an armor unless it’s already got a ton of magic find on it (Skullder’s Ire or Tal Rasha’s Guardianship), or you’re making a four-topaz (presumably nonmagical) armor just for magic find. And plus to skills doesn’t do nearly as much for an amazon as it does for, say, a sorceress. You’re probably better off with increased attack speed on your gloves instead of skills (mana or life steal are also easy to get on gloves). I take it, from the plus skills and high energy, that you rely primarily on Frozen Arrow and Immolation Arrow? That would at least mean that you’re not having too much trouble with physical immunes (together with the 1-250 lightning damage on Skystrike).

[Fenris]

*Originally posted by Chronos *
** I take it, from the plus skills and high energy, that you rely primarily on Frozen Arrow and Immolation Arrow? **

Dead on, but your phrasing implies that there’s something else to rely on…On Hell, one of those goblin (whatever the hell they’re called…Fallen?) shaman takes about 12-15 shots to kill with a normal arroow, but only like 2 shots to kill with the frozen or immolation. Is there another route?