Alleged Gang Rape Teens Described As "Good Kids"

Some tidbits I heard - undoubtedly entirely inaccurate.

The perp who lived where the act occurred had a seperate entrance to his living quarters from the rest of the house. A “carraige house/in-law” sort of set up.

And the story around the HS the perps attended is that the vic had previously had sexual relationships with at least 2 of the perps, and that she showed up at the house asking to have sex while videotaping it. Which - if true - I guess amounts to consent while unconscious, right? <sarcasm off>

And the missus, who knows far more about such things than I, says the general rule is that parents are not liable for the intentional torts or crimes of their children.

I don’t know what the national coverage of this has been, Jon. My reading has been limited to the Chicago Trib, and the Sun-Times article linked above. As I said, I rarely watch TV news. BTW - today the Trib had zippo about this.

Oh yeah - I understand a couple more “party-goers” were identified yesterday.

Well…I have kids, and I’ve had stepkids. My stepkids are old enough (all over 20) to have done some abysmally stupid and/or harmful things. Right now I’m ready to go kick one of them in the head, I’m so angry at the way he’s behaved.

His father feels the same way.

We will NOT stop loving him, we will NOT stop giving him as much of our emotional support as he can use (and then some)…but we can still say, “Jesus, that was totally fucking stupid and selfish, and I really don’t like you right now.” The thought of defending the things he’s done is right the hell out the window, I’ll tell you that.

And he did nothing LIKE these kids did.

It’s possible that the parents are putting on a good face for the public and being completely disgusted with the kid in private…the public face is the emotional support, but the private face is what’s actually going on.

None of us can particularly know. I find these kids and their actions reprehensible. As I told a friend last night, “Even if she was wearing nothing but a piece of thread from which dangled a sign reading ‘fuck me hard,’ there’s no excuse for gang-raping a 16-year-old girl.”

And videotaping it. Shit. How smart can these yaboos BE?

Well, I don’t know if poor people are " bad", but poor people are more likely to commit crimes.

Here’s a cite, if you need one.

Much of the media coverage here is driven not by racism or classism, but by the “man bites dog” bias of the news. A community with a hundred rapes a year, rightly or wrongly, is not going to react as strongly to the hundred-and-first as a community with one rape a year reacts to the only one.

Plus, this case has videotape. To a generation that doesn’t really believe in anything they don’t see on TV, that means the case feels real.

Regards,
Shodan

On the Today show this morning there was a story about an 18 year old kid in Minnesota or Wisconsin, or somewhere up there where sub-0 temps are acceptable for inhabitation, that put his newborn baby in the sludge of a porta potty, to freeze to death.

Now this kid left a baby to freeze to death in human shit. He could have dumped the baby on the steps of a church, or taken it to a hospital and left it, no questions asked (via some law that exists in a good number of states, a law I am too lazy to cite unless asked), at a hospital, but no. He leaves it to die in the worst place imaginable. The stinking, filthy sludge of a porta-john.

Guess how this sack of shit was described this morning by his classmates? Stumped? Wait for it. . .

As a good kid that just made a mistake. . . word for fucking word!

They’re probably saving it for February ‘sweeps’: “And now, to give our ratings a boost, we’re going to roll tape of that gang rape that was in the news last month.”

I can only hope they’ve got the decency not to use it, if they have it or get it. But as Damon Runyon said in other circumstances, it’s not the way to bet.

And as for the guy fatmac mentioned, yup, just made a mistake: thought the Port-a-Potty was an orphanage, and the commode was a cradle. Any good kid could make an honest mistake or two like that. :rolleyes:

Well, I think I agree with leander on this one. It’s like this thread is a contest as to who can come up with the most colorful euphemism to show that they are more outraged than anyone else.

I don’t think the kids are pure evil, sure they did something repugnant, and I have no problem with them going away for a long long time, but the sensationalist bullshit going on in this thread like “I don’t want to compare them to animals because that would be an insult to the animal kingdom” is some of the most ridiculous shit I’ve ever heard, that’s the same to me as the woman slandering the victim. Animals rape all the time. Have you ever seen a dog chasing a bitch in heat, and her fighting him off until he finally subdues her. Or cats where the male cat sinks his fangs into the scruff of the female cat’s neck.

The rage reaction that is displayed here, is just as antithetical to good productive discussion, as blaming the victim. It’s just masturbation to prove what a good citizen you are by telling everyone that you’re more outraged than the average person.

I do think that it’s a problem with our society that people would defend this sort of thing, especially defending it with untruths such as “They are such good kids”, when they clearly are not.

When I was in HS, a kid got shot at school, he died and a couple days later there were kids flyering around my HS with pamphlets asking people to show support for the kid that shot him. I always found that somewhat odd.

So let’s face the fact that these kids aren’t monsters, they aren’t animals, (Though they acted like animals) and focus on the true horror of the story, and that is that these kids were the children of our friend’s and neighbors and that they WERE good kids at different points in their lives, and ask the questions that need to be asked, how can society enlighten itself to be able to head these problems off.

While we may be shocked and horrified by rape in this country, rape is far from uncommon in the world as a whole. In fact it’s downright common in the poorer edges of society. Hell it’s downright common here. I’d say at least one in ten women that I know has been raped. At least that I know of, and I know women who have been raped more than once. It’s far from uncommon and “HUMANS” rape other humans. They do it without relinquishing their humanity. They aren’t monsters, they aren’t animals, they are humans like you or I and they do something that we just cannot tolerate if we want this thing called society to work, but to end it, admitting that it’s part of the society that YOU belong to is one of the first steps to eradicating it.

I personally am into BDSM from time to time, and I make the joke that I would be a rapist or a pedophile if it weren’t for the massive psychological damage aspect. In otherwords, I enjoy the pure animal aspect of sex, I like it to be violent, I like for it to be slightly out of control, or at least to appear so, even if it really is very controlled. I have found that there is no shortage of girls who find this appealing. In the end what it comes down to is consent. Taking away consent from someone is where the crime lies, basically what I am trying to say is that in our society it is downright NORMAL to be able to commit one of these acts, and what keeps most of us from committing these acts is that we don’t want to cause permanent psychological harm to those around us. We don’t wish to make them victims in otherwords, it’s not conducive to the relationship that we all have called society.

So in the end I think that outdoing each other with colorful euphemisms is part of the problem, and is almost as far from the solution as the woman condemning the victim.

I think that Waverly’s parody had a lot of substance to it, in that many of us can trace our lineage back to a time and a place where this sort of thing went on, with a greater frequency, and the perpetrators were probably regarded as heroes by their own friend’s and families.

So let’s accept that these kids ARE us, they ARE our good kids, and maybe try and come up with something a little more constructive as to what you think is not being taught to them that should be, or what is being taught to them that shouldn’t be. As someone asked, “What makes boys like this hate a woman like that?”, I think that’s a very valid question, what generates that sort of hate toward a woman? What generates irrational hate at all?

Erek

You know, I am not surprised at how the phrase “good boy” is bandied about with regard to the rapists in this story. I teach high school, and let me tell you, the worst discipline problems I have are the “good boys.” “Good boy” is code: it means “white, athletic, parents will call the school.” There is no correlation with any actual moral or ethical goodness. It also means that punishment will be waived or mitigated, esp. if there’s a big game that weekend.

It just happened to me this week. A “good kid” (basketball player, 90+ average) shouted the word “bitch” in my class, refused to leave and had to be removed, then later threatened another boy with bodily harm and swore some more. Will he be suspended? No. He’s a good kid, and it’s basketball season.

The other kids in the school KNOW there’s a double standard. Hell, I’ve even pointed it out. It doesn’t matter. Now, I’ll make an incendiary statement and say, that’s why shit like Columbine happens. The “good kids” are cruel towards the “freaks” and “weirdos” but are never punished, mostly b/c the administrators agree with the “good kids” about the unconventional kids. That kind of stuff will make a vigilante out of anyone (not that killing people or violence is ever the answer–believe me, that’s not what I’m saying).

The girl in this story was underage. She was drunk. She was unconscious. There is no way anyone can argue that consent was given-- any of the above criteria make such a thing impossible. People who have any sympathy for the rapists should imagine how they’d feel if it happened to their kid.

As a matter of fact, they went to my school. For what it’s worth, I’m prepared to discuss this (and maybe fend off some perceptions of my town) in future posts. Not that it necessarily matters, but if it does a townsfolk’s opinion would be valuable.

Rubystreak: I agree with you wholeheartedly. Columbine happened right after I got out of HS, well a couple years after but the memories of HS were still fresh, and when my friends and I heard the rumor (which turned out false) that they were only killing jocks, we all thought that was awesome. I spoke to MANY of my childhood friends, friends who have entered different walks of life than I have, and they said they had a similar initial reaction to that. Some of these were even kids that I had assumed were on that other line of demarcation you were talking about.

Erek

You know, in a similar track of thought to the “who knows what happens that they’re not video taping” comment, I think the worst (or the best, depending how you look at it) part of the thing is that these fucking rapists would have gotten away with it if one of their (former) friends didn’t send the tape to the authorities.