If I were the wife, I’d obviously want to know. However, I would not fault you for not telling me. Your allegiance is supposed to be, and should be, to your long-time friend.
If one of my best friends was cheating on her boyfriend or husband, I would try my best to dissuade her. I wouldn’t cover for her. But I would be there for her. I wouldn’t betray her trust. Unfortunately, that is how friendships work.
It’s a sucky situation, but no, I can’t fault you for not telling her.
I won’t comment on your choices. They are yours and you must live with them. No one who knows me well would even ask me to lie for them. They know how highly I value my honor. If someone did ask me to lie, I would explain that my word is my bond and that it is one of the few things I have that no one can take from me. It is corny, old fashioned and many other words, but I try to live it. (As an example, I recently let a man go at work. I explained that it was business and not personal. He got very emotional when he said "I know you have always been straight with me. Others haven’t, but I know you have. Thanks for treating me as you do.)
Do what you have to, but if this man were a friend, I believe he wouldn’t ask you to give you your honor for him.
I don’t know the right course of action here, though I don’t think Bruce is a bastard. He’s caught in a really bad situation and it seems to me he wants to do the right thing.
Some people have said Bruce should say “I won’t cover for you anymore.” I’d say don’t cover for him at all, even on this one incident. Otherwise you’re already part of the coverup. I don’t know what the thing to do is with regard to telling the wife… but I doubt there’s any ethical way you can not tell her.
His friend had some fun… unless the legal age is 18… IT’S HIS PROBLEM ! If he cheats or not is his problem.
Now if Mr. Bruce wants to play moralizing mormon he will stand only to lose. Lose a friend and lose any credibility.
Stupid suggestions like sending anonymous letters to the guy’s wife is silly. Its his problem. So he had the bad luck of being the witness… but its still his friend. So keep quiet and send some white lies if necessary.
If every time someone got out of hand their friends started ratting on them where would we be ?!
I still don’t understand the “Bruce is caught in a bad situation line of thinking.”
Bruce knows his good friend is cheating on his wife and, while not jumping for glee, he hasn’t been horrified enough to tell the friend that he will not lie for him (he hasn’t told him that YET - he may from this thread).
This thread was started because Bruce had drinks/hung out with just the two of them the other night and felt uber-guilty. Fair enough. People have suggested he go elsewhere if he runs into them or at least noticeably freeze friend and Amy Fisher out during this weirdness. Bruce responds by saying what the heck is supposed to do, not go to the bar??? I am getting from his protests that: 1) Despite the fact it’s tough for him, he will continue hanging in group situations because it’s more convenient than going elsewhere, and 2) If he ends up with just the two of them, it’s not his fault.
Yes, I do think he cares. But the fact is that “hanging with all those people” is more important than making a point to his good friend. From what I can tell, he also believes that the only thing he has done wrong so far is to not tell the wife. I disagree.
Just FYI for those who say don’t tell his wife, I belong to two support boards that deal with infidelity. There have been many times that this topic has come up and almost every betrayed spouse (including yours truly ) has always answered that they wish someone, anyone had told them what was going on.
Most knew there was SOMETHING wrong while the affair was happening but did not know what. Asking the unfaithful party will usually result in them playing the deny, deny, deny til you die game.
I still believe that the wife has a right to know the truth, even if she does not believe it she will have been warned and she will be watching him a bit more closely, trust me on that one.
Anyone who thinks that a man is out with a 17 year old girl til 3am and they’re doing nothing but playing “kissey face” is a certifiable idiot.
Forget telling the wife. If I were Bruce, I’d have a conversation with the 17 year old’s mother. She wins no parenting awards for allowing her daughter to hang out in a bar in the first place, not to mention not knowing where her daughter was til 3am, but I’m going to assume that she genuinely loves her daughter. And I don’t know any mother who wouldn’t be alarmed that their 17 year old was involved with an older, married, father.
And Bruce? Next time you have a conversation with your friend, be sure to remind him to enjoy his daughter opening up her presents this Christmas morning. Because if he doesn’t wake up and smell the coffee, there’s a real chance that it’s the last one he’ll spend with her.
I’m going to go against the tide and say that loyalty to your friend comes first. Of course, this is not an iron-clad and absolute precept but exceptions deserve to be carefully considered.
I don’t believe it is right to tell the wife and betray the friend. I also don’t believe it is right for the friend to do what he is doing. However, the value judgements made and the actions taken have to be ones that you will be comfortable with now and later in your life.
I have a longtime friend who is also doing things I do not approve of and is the undeniably the worst person that I know well. What is worse is that I know that my friend will not and cannot change. I have struggled with what I should do and whether I should terminate our friendship but these sorts of things are complicated and not easy to do. I don’t see any winners either way, whether I terminate our friendship or not.
The way I see it though is that loyalty is an essential component of a friendship and without it, the friendship doesn’t exist. So if I choose to continue the friendship, my loyalty comes along with it, for better or for worse, until I decide that friendship is over.
Bruce_Daddy, I empathise with your dilemma. Really, I do. So I will not be so quick to moralise. Whatever course of action you take, at least it is a considered one. Good luck to you.
Everyone ragging on Bruce_Daddy apparently fail to realize that he may not be the only person who knows that this is going on. Since he is talking about a local, public Pub, you have to assume that the bartender and staff know, that other regulars know, and that other friends of Humbert know. Even if they don’t KNOW, they must have their suspicions. It is unfair to heap the “Sole Voice Of Moral Reason” burden squarely on Bruce’s shoulders.
your not a bastard, you were just put in a fucked up situation, I would say just dont hang around with your friend when he is with the chick. But if you bump into them at the pub you shouldnt have to leave or anything. You have no obligations to tell his wife. I would personally not interfere in their relationship, it is between them. And while some would disagree with what your friend is doing and it may be cowardly to lie to his wife. I think a lot of people in these previous posts may have judged him a bit harshly…geez it’s not like he killed anyone, what right do you have to judge him
Rashak, that’s one of the stupidest things I’ve ever read. How in the world can somebody lose their credibility by telling the truth? That’s utterly ridiculous. Even more ridiculous is the idea that unless you actively participate in their wrongdoing (by lying for them) you’re a sermonizing jerk. Horseshit, my friend, utter horseshit. Whether or not a person is obligated to “rat out” others for their wrongdoings, he is most emphatically NOT obligated to engage in wrongdoing himself. I mean, really, are you suggesting that if your friend is accused of raping a 17-year old, you’re obligated to lie and give him an alibi? Why not? I mean, he was just having some fun, and it’s his business, not yours.
And perhaps, if people knew they couldn’t con others into covering up their bullshit, they’d stop and think before engaging in it. That can only be a good thing.
I say screw loyalty to this so-called friend. He’s proven by his actions that he hasn’t got any loyalty to his wife by screwing around with this kid, and he’s proved he hasn’t got any loyalty to you by deliberately putting you in this shitty situation. He is, in short, a faithless pig, and faithless pigs don’t deserve any loyalty.
Yup. You’re a bastard. You’ve helped him lie to his wife, and helped him break his promise (if he made one, Heh) to be faithful to his wife. Great going. But hey! You’ve helped your sleazeball of a friend cover up this crap. You should be proud. How does it feel to know you’ve helped him cover up his infidelity?
If the wife asks you, don’t be a idiot and lie again. Tell her flat out. Yeah, it’ll hurt. Yeah, you’ll ruin their relationship. That happened when you kept your mouth shut!
Your examples are all CRIMES... cheating is not a crime (judicial sense). Robbing and molesting aren't defendable... cheating is a personal matter though.
I guess you guys LOVE GOSSIP... because if the Gossip is rolling freely then no one cheats or plays around. This sounds like small town mentality. Keep an eye on your neighbor.
The poor OP might opt for NOT being friends anymore… that is a choice and sensible since frolicking with 17 yr olds isn’t exactly “nice”. Ratting on him and acting all Puritan is being an asshole in my opinion. Your accusing, judging and sentencing your friend all by yourself.
CrazyCatLady... if I am your friend and I tell you I am having an affair and you run to my wife... don't you lose credibility ? Afterall you could barely wait to rat on your friends. Keep your nose in your own business next time !
Ah, so the only way you hurt someone is by breaking the law?
Hmmm…I must remember that. :rolleyes:
This isn’t gossip. This is someone breaking a promise to his wife and young child. The wife needs this information to protect herself not only emotionally, but possibly medically as well.
As far as keeping your nose in your own business…Asshole Friend made it BD’s business when he asked him to lie for him. All bets are off. BD has a responsibility to the innocent, the wife and the daughter.
In retrospect, I think the mess in the this thread may be because BD bit off more than he can chew with the OP.
The question posed is, “Am I a bastard for helping my friend cheat on his wife with a 17 year old girl?” In the OP, he then goes on to wonder if he should tell the wife. So, we have two (possibly more) issues going, here.
Seems to me that BD needs to get square with the question he originally posed and then after he is comfortable with his feelings on the subject, possibly consider telling the wife. As it stands, the two issues seem to be confusing the situation, and him. It seems like enough people know about his friend’s transgression that I’m not sure BD needs to shoulder the responsibility of telling her, especially when he’s unclear about his role in the affair.
However, trusting that the original question was asked in good faith by someone who was wrestling with his own culpability in the matter, I do commend him for feeling badly and wanting to get it straightened out within himself. I just think he needs to tackle one dragon at a time, I guess.
Wow seems there is a moral patrol in the US then ? Why not get those Iranian style clerics with sticks to hit those who break the moral codes ? Land of the Free… hmmmpphh…
“Isn’t exactly nice” is the understatement of the year. This man is fucking a 17 year old girl who is not his equal in any way. She is not as mature mentally or emotionally, financially independent, or cognisant as he is. He is using her for her taut 17 year old body and her youthful naivete. There is nothing moral, loving or good about this “relationship”. Call me a Puritan if you want, but I think that enabling a man to treat a young woman like a blow-up doll is wrong. It’s an example of the objectification of women and since I’m all for equality, I can’t condone that any more than I can condone a homophobic joke.
Rashak, no one is advocating beating this guy with a stick. Adultery is not a crime punishable by jail, but it IS legal grounds for divorce. His wife has a right to know and a right to make an informed decision. I can’t help wondering how you would feel if someone that you trusted betrayed you. All of your friends knew about it, gossiped about it behind your back, and no one told you. Would this not bother you in the slightest?