Whether you are a good person or not, your described behavior is simply not. That you think it is, makes it so much the worse. Then, the third thing of not listening to the bulk of the responses, makes me think that I am not inviting you over to barbecue on the patio any time soon. Overall, your niceness hasn’t shown up yet.
Fair enough; my OP was not well thought out nor accurately worded. And I have read every comment and honestly tried it against my own behavior. In some cases I have found truth in these posts; in others I did not find anything that was recognizably me.
I don’t think niceness has anything to do with moral high ground; it’s simply a quality that one might or might not value.
What I really meant to say to her, instead of “try to be a nice person” was “try to be nice to people”. There is a notable difference.
Roddy
Might be more about how often they get washed than whether shoes are involved or not.
Otara
Can you elaborate?
You can rationalize it any way you like, and your words may not have been truly indicative of your behaviour.
But here’s the thing, when you self describe yourself as ‘a nice person’, and someone who knows you well enough for you to remark this, in front of them, raises a eyebrow. That speaks volumes about how you view your behaviour, and how others see it.
Ignore it if you wish, rationalize it away, but that person tried to tell you something you seem flat out unable to hear. And that, should give you pause, regardless of what us internet nobody’s opinions might amount to.
I think some people are being a little judgemental here. Sometimes I find someone mildly irritating, I don’t necessarily dislike them, I may just find them a little boring or over-confident, I may disagree with the opinions they insist on sharing with me unsolicited and at every opportunity.
People very often do not handle criticism very well, particularly in my experience those who are, or at least pretend to be, very sure of themselves. Now I maintain that just because I know someone isn’t mature enough or secure enough in themselves to react well to criticism, it doesn’t mean I don’t get to say it. Discussing the behaviour/attitudes of others with your peers is a normal part of human interaction. It’s perfectly healthy, there is nothing immoral about it. On the other hand you should be aware that the differences between you and another may well be equally annoying to them. They might even be right.
I am perfectly comfortable with people discussing their minor gripes about me in my absence. I think some of the people who’s attitude is ‘never say anything bad behind someones back’ may be concerned about what would be said about them should this behaviour be reciprocated, so they advocate a total ban. Once again it’s all about what’s said, how it’s intended and how it’s recieved. You should avoid making fun of peoples appearance for example, but their ideas and opinions are fair game as far as I’m concerned. You shouldn’t conspire to exclude people or try to turn others against them, but it’s reasonable to gauge if others share your misgivings about them and so determine whether it might in fact be you who is at fault.
If I know the recipient of the criticism can take a joke, then I’ll say it to their face but if I know that they can’t, then I’ll say it to my friend in the cafeteria. That’s my right and doesn’t make me a bad person. (My habit of shouting abuse at strangers in the street and stealing money from charities is what makes me a bad person.)
I agree that talking about bad behavior has no reflection on how one treats people to their face, necessarily. But I think the OP is forgetting that when you talk about people behind their back (especially in a “poke fun” way), you have witnesses. Those witnesses are free to issue judgements about you, even if they appear to be in agreement. You might be nice when on stage, but if the stagehands see the “other” side of you, then it doesn’t matter to THEM what kind of performance you give in front of the audience.
I also think for this particular coworker, the “I try to be a nice person and do the right thing” may have come off a little rich. She may have been thinking that genuinely nice people do not have to talk about trying to be nice. It’s the kind of bubble line just waiting for someone to pop. I know I would be afraid to say something like that in public, lest someone bring out all the ways I’ve departed from niceness and righteousness.
The OP asked us to judge her.
First of all, setting yourself up as the arbiter of who or what behaviors are considered “annoying” or “jerkish” is itself pretty pretentious. Yes, other people do annoy us from time to time. However, going around and complaining to everyone about it as if it were a universal truth does not make you a appear to be a nice and tolerant person.
And if you want to continue in that behavior, don’t have the audacity to call yourself a “nice” person just because you do it behind their back.
Yes the OP did invite criticism. Does this mean it’s impossible for the reply to be considered judgemental? Of course not. Here’s an analogy (obviously I’m not suggesting its in any way morally equivalent). Person A asks person B if it is wrong for them to be a homosexual. Person B answers that it is wicked and sinful. In my opinion person B is being judgemental. It doesn’t matter that person A asked the opinion of person B, person B is condemming the behaviour itself and all those engaged in it, regardeless of whether they sought the opinion of person B.
What? deciding for yourself what behaviour you think is acceptable or not, for you or for others, is pretentious? Is deciding that you think someone is ‘a lovely person’ also pretentious. After all, what qualifies you to make this assessment? Maybe we should all remain emotionally neutral about all possible behaviours?
I think we all make judgements about certain actions and opinions, although we should be careful not to equate ‘that person’s behaviour is jerkish’ with ‘that person is a jerk’. We all place hypothetical behaviours along a continuous spectrum from completely acceptable to completely unacceptable. We may well differ in where along this spectrum we place certain behaviours and some of these judgements may be inate and universal (murder, theft) while some may be cultural and varied (swearing, spitting). The fact that these judgements may vary from person to person emphatically does not mean that we cannot make them. I also think that sharing these assessments, under certain circumstances, is an important way of understanding how others assess the behaviours. More than once in my life, I’ve heard someone criticise another and realised, on reflection, that I too may be guilty of the same thoughtless actions which provoked the criticism. I think I’m a better person for this having happened.
I think you completely undermine your point here. You say that it is pretentious for a person to abitrate what is and is not acceptable behaviour, and then say that someone who talks behind anothers back shouldn’t have the ‘audacity’ to call themselves a nice person. You don’t see a contradiction?
Well, if I am nice to a person who is unbearable, to me that means that I am polite and responsive and don’t let them know that they are unbearable to me. Maybe I understand that they are unbearable because of things outside their immediate control, in the same way that I seem aloof to people because I have difficulty with ordinary small-talk type conversations.
If I then complain about that person’s unbearableness to another person, that means (by the consensus of this thread) I am not a nice person. But I can’t see that I wasn’t nice to that person.
[QUOTE=msmith537]
The OP asked us to judge her.
First of all, setting yourself up as the arbiter of who or what behaviors are considered “annoying” or “jerkish” is itself pretty pretentious.
[/QUOTE]
Him, actually. Interesting, I wonder if the nonsense in the rest of your post stems from your belief that I am a woman.
What, I’m not allowed to have opinions about the annoying or jerkish nature of someone else’s behavior? Do you meet that standard? I doubt it. And I don’t understand how you jump from me having an opinion to me thinking I’m an arbiter. That is ridiculous.
And having such opinions, I am not allowed to express them?
[QUOTE=msmith537]
going around and complaining to everyone about it as if it were a universal truth
[/QUOTE]
When did I ever say anything like that? I believe I have made it clear at every point that I am and have always been talking about me expressing my opinions, identified as such.
If anyone is attempting to arbitrate behavior of others (and others you have never even met) it is you. You, my dear, are an idiot.
Roddy
Calling someone an idiot is a bit strong. I strongly disagree with what they said too, but you don’t know anything about that person. It’s just a cheap insult as far as I can see. That doesn’t make you a bad person in my eyes, but I do think you should think about whether or not it’s a constructive or appropriate thing to say. Whether it reflects what you judge to be ‘nice’ and whether it may be grounds for others to suspect that you might not be.
I forgot, for a moment, which forum I was in. I apologize for the name-calling.
Roddy
With regards to being nice to others, would you consider being charitable in your description of them to others as part of that?
After all, a negative description of someone can affect their life, even if it is only in minor ways. People who only have a negative description of this person to go on may deliberately avoid this person or discount them without getting to know them. They could miss out on a friendship or a job offer if they are thought of negatively.
Also, if they do hear that you described them negatively, they might feel betrayed as you seemed so nice to them before. They may be horrified to know they offended someone without realising it. To hear that they have an annoying trait, only to remember all the times in the past in which they unwittingly performed the annoying trait could be embarrassing.
Of course, they could just laugh it off. After all, they might not think it’s annoying at all and that you are just being fussy.
However, this might not apply directly to your situation. I suppose you are being nice to the person in a direct way, or at least polite.
This is perceptive. Even if it isn’t your intention to prejudice the annoying person’s future interactions with co workers, the likely outcome is that your negative opinion could influence someone to avoid or dislike that person as well.
:rolleyes:
Look, I will be the last person to deny that women are treated differently than men, and that in particular, women are expected to be less critical and angry and more polite.
But how many different excuses are you going to toss out for why the posters in this thread are wrong about you? We are going off of what you posted about your own actions.
The thread title is “Am I a nice person or not?”. Why did you post it if you didn’t want an answer? Why are you so buttmad about it? Why didn’t you post “Please please tell me I’m a nice person” if that’s what you were after?
Do you thnk this would work? It sounds like fun. I might start a new thread entitled ‘please feed my ego’. If anyone said anything critical about me, I could accuse them if being off topic.
I agree with this. You should do one of the following:
- Not talk negatively about people at all.
- Tell them to their face any negative opinions you have about them.
- Vent those negative feelings to people who don’t know the people you’re talking about. Talk to your family about the idiots at work, complain to strangers in a bar, post it online on a message board.
But don’t talk shit about people behind their back to other people who know them. That’s wrong. You’re poisoning their social circle against them and they don’t know it and can’t defend themselves from what you’re saying. And on a personal level, it’s a dangerous practice that’s likely to come back on you.
Maybe I should clarify. You are certainly entitled to feeling that someone is a jerk or annoying or whatever. However, I would caution against sharing those feelings with others (or at least not being specific about who you are referring to). Just because you find someone disagreeable, does not mean everyone does. And while the person you share those feelings with may be polite or non-confrontational enough to just nod their head and not disagree with you, you have no idea if they feel the same way or if they will turn around and share your feelings with the person in question. That’s what I meant by “assuming it’s a universal truth”.
Message boards can be hard.
No one is saying you can’t go around self identifying as a ‘nice’ person.
But saying it doesn’t make it so. And talking up people’s faults behind their backs, conflicts with your image of yourself as a ‘nice’ person.
As does resorting to calling people names.
In the end, you are your actions, not your intentions. That’s why people show you, who they really are, all the time, with their actions. Regardless of how they choose to self identify.
And that’s why your friend raised an eyebrow.
I would assume that you are not a nice person (though I don’t know in reality). I have a certain expertise in this area as I used to do this a lot for most of my life. In my specific situation I pursued anger management therapy (I’m not saying this is appropriate in your case) and after two years of that I can look back at my behaviour with shame and disgust.
Here’s the thing - what purpose does criticizing and making fun of people, behind their backs or otherwise, actually serve? The other thing is that everyone is annoying to someone and everyone has a story which affects their behaviour and I’m certainly in no position to judge and I never was even though I did. We have a choice about how a workplace is going to be and, though I’ve seen a number of threads regarding how someone doesn’t want to be friends with co-workers, I know that work can either be as enjoyable and positive as possible, despite it being a workplace, or it can be toxic. My wife has been in one workplace that was extremely toxic and it was because of three negative people out of 16. I, on the other hand, have jobs in which the work itself was either boring or very stressful in which my co-workers actually made it a blast to be there.
Criticizing people does not make a place a blast. There are a lot of nice people out there - some of them might be a bit boring, some might be disorganized, some might be forgetful but as long as they’re not toxic I can live with that.