[QUOTE=brownie55]
I don’t care abou Beth or Elly, but I would pay you to stop the anywhistle schtick.
[/QUOTE]
Actually I say it in reality; it’s not SDMB. But if you guys are really vexed by it, I’ll tell Word to edit it out; at least that way it shan’t appear in my OPs.
I’ve spent 7-8 years of my life living in the south, Florida, Mississippi, Texas and Virginia and I’m damned if I can ever remember anyone using the word shan’t.
Skald, my suggestion to you is to go rent the movie “Manhattan.” I don’t know whether it’ll help you come to a firm decision, but it’ll at least help you understand the importance of being decisive.
And if you, like me, come away with a lifelong crush on Mariel Hemmingway, so much the better. 
[QUOTE=A.R. Cane]
I’ve spent 7-8 years of my life living in the south, Florida, Mississippi, Texas and Virginia and I’m damned if I can ever remember anyone using the word shan’t.
[/QUOTE]
I use it all the time. But I’m a geek.
[QUOTE=
Enter the Flagon]
Skald, my suggestion to you is to go rent the movie “Manhattan.” I don’t know whether it’ll help you come to a firm decision, but it’ll at least help you understand the importance of being decisive.
And if you, like me, come away with a lifelong crush on Mariel Hemmingway, so much the better.
[/QUOTE]
Already seen it, and the crush on Mariel Hemingway precedes it, and I’ve already asked her out, so…um…thanks.
[QUOTE=Skald the Rhymer]
You’re utterly right there that I’m likely tossing all chance with Elly out the window by going out with Beth, if only because she’d have to be irritated. On the other hand, Beth’s opinion is that I was totally blowing it with Elly anywhistle. On the other hand, she may be being mendacious. On the other other hand, I seem certain to be blowing it with one no matter which I ask out, and Beth is clearly more approachable. On the other other other hand ..
[/QUOTE]
Okay, as long as you’re going into this with your eyes wide open. You were interested in Elly, and now you’re taking Beth’s word that Elly’s not interested? How do you know Elly’s not approachable until you approach? Or is it because Beth has done everything except strip down and spread her legs that your attention is diverted?
And you know Elly is not fun because Beth told you so? Uh-huh. Looks like the little head can still get the big head in trouble, even at the advanced age of 37.
You know better. Otherwise you wouldn’t have asked here. Call Beth, tell her thanks but no thanks, and call Elly. Or, if you still are quibbling, call Elly first. If she says no you can still keep your “date” with Beth.
[QUOTE=Skald the Rhymer]
I spend a great deal of time mocking men who chase women that much younger than they; what on Earth do they talk about?
[/QUOTE]
Apparently they talk about Thackery, Melville, & the Brontë sisters; Cthulu; math puzzles; and perhaps, shoes.
You can:
Once option definitely seems more prudent than the other. 
[QUOTE=ivylass]
Okay, as long as you’re going into this with your eyes wide open. You were interested in Elly, and now you’re taking Beth’s word that Elly’s not interested?
[/quote]
I saw it in Elly’s body language before the conversation with Beth.
I suppose I brought the little head comment upon myself, but I don’t think it’s applicable here. I find them both attractive, but it was Elly I was moved to make the advance on, not Beth, for the simple reason that she’s closer to my age. I’ve asked women out before with varying degrees of success; I knew halfway into this incident that I was not going to get Elly’s number. The thing with Beth is just serendipity.
Well, tell you what. I’m likely to be at the library tomorrow, as it’s Monday, so I shall go ahead and take another swing at getting Elly’s digits. After all, the worst thing that can happen is that she says No.
[QUOTE=Skald the Rhymer]
Already seen it, and the crush on Mariel Hemingway precedes it, and I’ve already asked her out, so…um…thanks.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I know you’ve asked her out. You’ve told us this much.
But my gut tells me that you don’t go from appearing totally conflicted about this (IMO, anyways - am I wrong about this?) to having firm convictions in the space of ten hours and a half-dozen posts. My gut tells me that, if you go out with her while you’re still conflicted, then you’re apt to wish you hadn’t asked her out at all. My gut is telling me to tell you: “In for a dime, in for a dollar.”
See what I mean? It’s ‘gut-check’ time. 
[QUOTE=Enter the Flagon]
But my gut tells me that you don’t go from appearing totally conflicted about this (IMO, anyways - am I wrong about this?) to having firm convictions in the space of ten hours and a half-dozen posts.
[/quote]
Why not? He’s talked to the girl in those ten hours and ran some of our concerns past her. Her responses were apparently sufficient to firm up his resolve… or his something else <nudge nudge wink wink>.
So, when’s she gonna get a Dope account? I’d like to read someone who “intends to sound like someone from a Jane Austen novel, only meaner.”
[QUOTE=1010011010]
Why not? He’s talked to the girl in those ten hours and ran some of our concerns past her. Her responses were apparently sufficient to firm up his resolve… or his something else <nudge nudge wink wink>.
[/QUOTE]
Good question. It deserves a good answer.
So, as I’m unqualified to give good answers, I’ll let the much-more-erudite Skald field this one for me:
[QUOTE=Skald the Rhymer]
…One the one hand, Beth is smart and bitchy and cute, all good things. But she’s nineteen years old… I could very easily be her father… I spend a great deal of time mocking men who chase women that much younger than they… How does the guy keep up? Don’t all his friends point & laugh?
[/QUOTE]
These concerns remain, AFAIK, 1010011010, and they may not go away soon, if they go away at all. Skald doesn’t seem like the type who likes to jerk people around, so in order to be fair to Beth, he needs to try to go into this with as little ambivalence as possible, ‘s all I’m sayin’.
In other words, don’t mess it up the way I did under similar circumstances. 
Honestly, I do think you’re a bit too old for a 19 year old. I’m only 23 myself, and even I wouldn’t date a 19 year old. 
Now granted girls tend to be more emotionally mature than boys (I am female and date dudes), but still…to me, a teenager is still in many ways just a kid.
I think the major age gap relationships are far, far more likely to work once both parties are past the age of say about 25. The late teens and early 20s are such a huge time for emotional growth and figuring out who you are. People change so much in those years, regardless of how mature they may be relatively speaking as a teen. Once you get past all those rapid changes of the college years, you’re closer to being in the same stage of life.
Also remember that just because she’s intelligent and sassy doesn’t mean she is completely emotionally mature (in fact, I’d say it’s likely that one of the reasons she has such a sassy sense of humor is probably that she hasn’t grown up enough to fully realize the impact of hurting other people’s feelings yet). So make sure you’re very clear about your intentions and such, so she doesn’t end up feeling like you led her on. Oh, and I recommend that you should start scoping out new places to hang out other than the library in case things end badly so you don’t have any awkward scenes with Elly or Beth.
I’m a 30-year-old man, and I think the best advice in this thread has come from DianaG:
[QUOTE=DianaG]
Oh, and wasn’t it *Elly * you were interested in before the moppet held out her shiny phone number and distracted you? Because you should also consider that if you call Beth, you can kiss any chance with Elly goodbye, forever.
[/QUOTE]
and:
I think the OP is experiencing the heady rush of unexpected attention from a woman. We’ve all been there. But no way would I trade a mature, comely 30-something woman for a teenager. This girl (yes, that’s what she is) is a year removed from high school. She’s barely more than a child emotionally, whatever her legal age, and is as likely to be just fooling around as anything else.
In fact, her behavior when the OP was sitting with Elly was probably the first instance of cock-blocking by a woman I’ve ever heard of. It was not mature behavior to embarrass people in public, whatever her intentions were. There are ways to help two people hook up without being an attention whore.
If it were me in this situation, I’d be sure of Elly first, by actually asking for her number, instead of just assuming from her “body language” I didn’t have a shot. If you get shot down, then take Beth as far as she’s willing to go. Without, of course, telling her anything about yourself and Elly.
The only phrase that pops into my head is:
What the bloody blue fuck does age have to do with it?
Two people are either good together, or they’re not.
And these implicitly judgmental questions of “What are you looking for?” are equally irrelevant. Why does everybody assume that every person on the planet is trying to lay out a Big Master Plan for their entire future at all times? And that every chance meeting of another person has to somehow advance the Master Plan, or it’s a Really Bad Thing? How about: Live life, love, and enjoy each other?
If you want to date her, date her. The hell with hangups and over-analysis and what-will-people-think and where-will-this-lead. Life isn’t a business plan, and friendship/dating/fun/sex/pleasure/love are not subject to an ROI analysis. All this “Oh, it just seems icky” and “Dude, how could you turn it down?” shit is just people projecting their own personal preconceptions and ingrained narrow mindedness onto a situation that is not theirs to judge or decide.
And the fact that you’re asking permission of the world at large (or this e-quivalent subset of it, at least), while plainly saying “But I wanna!” means that you have your own ingrained narrow preconceptions, on both sides of the fence, and that you’re trying to get the balance tipped, so you can get off the fence and do what you really want to do (which you’re not sure of yourself).
Forget age; it’s irrelevant. (Cue the dozens who will now come forth with allegedly logical reasons for why age is not only relevant but the primary consideration. As if logic were even remotely applicable in matters of human emotion, evolutionarily mandated psychological drives, sex, personal interaction and desire. Subtle hint: Logic and reasoned argument are not in the slightest way applicable here. You know that. Pay no attention to those who say otherwise.)
I’ve had several terrific friendships with women 15 or 20 years younger than I, with great fun, witty and interesting conversations, rewarding personal discoveries, and deeply felt attachment. I didn’t bed most of them. I’ve also had very happy times with women 15 or 20 years my senior and didn’t bed most of them, either. On both sides, age was irrelevant, to me and to them.
Should you date her? Who are any of us to say? You know the answer. All you have to do is get over your mental block and let the answer you have already chosen come forth.
Best of luck.
[QUOTE=Skald the Rhymer]
…I shall go ahead and take another swing at getting Elly’s digits. After all, the worst thing that can happen is that she says No.
[/QUOTE]
I’m thinking the worst that can happen is that doing so might destroy whatever chance you have with Beth.
In light of your saying “I saw it in Elly’s body language before the conversation with Beth,” I’m wondering why you’re tempted to try.
[QUOTE=Skald the Rhymer]
<snip>In general I’d say I’m looking for a long-term relationship, but of course that always has to start with fun. So even if we hit it off marvelously on an actual date, I would be inclined to break it off if it were obvious she was not long-term material.<snip>
[/quote]
Beth might be buckets of fun, but do you really see a future with someone almost 20 years younger than you? (I’m asking seriously, not meanly.) Assuming you want a future with her, of course.
Khangol, age is most definitely one of the criteria for building a relationship on, like religion, desire for children, etc. I’m not saying no one should ever date someone too far away from them agewise, but most people find that their most compatible people are similar in age and interests.
Lizard has basically posted the reasons that I don’t like Beth much - her behaviour was not cool, and she sounds a little pretentious, self-centred and arrogant. Maybe Elly was into you, but she shied away as soon as the pretty young thing came perking along rather than look like she was trying to compete (I know I would have). But it really doesn’t matter how I feel about Beth - I’m not the one dating her.
I’m 39 myself; I’m trying to imagine a 19 year old guy hitting on me. I would be flattered, of course, but I would probably find it more funny than anything. I mean, I have clothes older than this guy. I graduated high school before he was born. He hasn’t gone through any of the life experiences and changes and stages that I’ve gone through. He’s not at the same stage of life that I’m at. He’s so…new and unfinished.
[QUOTE=featherlou]
Maybe Elly was into you, but she shied away as soon as the pretty young thing came perking along rather than look like she was trying to compete (I know I would have).
[/QUOTE]
This would be my guess. After all, what 30 year old woman wants to get into a competition with a 19 year old? She’s not married, she had a recent bad date, maybe she’s feeling a bit unsure of herself to tell Beth to scram.
[QUOTE=DianaG]
Oh, for the love of god.
Yes, she’s too young for you. She’s legal, presumably of sound mind, and capable of making her own decisions, so date her if you want. But please bear in mind that you will never again be taken seriously or considered dateable by a grown woman who finds out about it.
Oh, and wasn’t it *Elly * you were interested in before the moppet held out her shiny phone number and distracted you? Because you should also consider that if you call Beth, you can kiss any chance with Elly goodbye, forever.
[/QUOTE]
Agreed. My husband did this. It didn’t last. Not that it’s a guaranteed failure, but usually the age difference thing becomes transparent after the younger of the two has a chance to develop a life. For the time being, you are from very different planets.
Hmm… that looks like a good bit of creative writing Skalmer
Reminds me of John Fowles’ ‘Daniel Martin’, not sure why (I liked most of his stuff, but not that one)
You could wind in a sachet of vinegar, pour it into your own coffee with Elly, say ‘I just wondered what it would taste like’ - and watch her face to see whether Beth was setting up a menage a trois.
Were I a writer, I would sow seeds, as a reader I am counting the ones that don’t sprout.
A pretty good idea using a BB to check out your yarning skills, and the plot looked interesting, but I’ve seen other writers do the same.
Closely note the prudent and considered thing to do, then reject it utterly. I would advise instant and speedy flighty from the OP’s situation, lest a mortal injury to the soul is delivered.
Would, except that I currently have an ongoing fling with a woman merely 18 and I’m having a ball. It’s a living fairy tale. Apparently from her POV there is a resemblance to a character from TV’s Gray’s Anatomy, so it’s all good. Plus there is the culturelanguagestravelconfidence aspects that men her age just do not have, so it is all good.
Life. It’s fleeting.
My experience has been that younger women who date older men usually do so to prove to themselves that they’re mature. Given the forewardness with which she approached you I’d say she fits the profile. Don’t get me wrong, she finds you attractive, but I think it’s fairly certain that in two years or sooner she’ll want out. Specifically, when she realizes that she has a choice between you and going to the college she wants to/ getting her dream job in another city/ dating someone she meets whose opinions aren’t as close to her dad’s.
On the other hand, if you were to give Elly a call and tell her that you’d prefer her to the cute funny 19- year old, she’d probably be flattered enough to give you a couple of dates.