This, and maybe not even then. This is MY land, goddammit. If people want to be assholes, then they’ll have to deal with me. If the climate changes too much, well, people manage to scratch out a living in all sorts of horrible environments, I can too. But if the sitch is just bad government, leaving would only facilitate the badness.
I’ve been caught short by this thought, but I’m not so sure it’s true. If by bad government we mean a government that does not function democratically and does not answer to its citizens, then leaving doesn’t facilitate badness, does it? And in any case, by staying and participating in the economy, if we are helpful to the economy then we help facilitate the badness.
If you’re passive about the badness, then yes, remaining and contributing to the economy is being part of the problem. But if it’s bad enough that people are fleeing in numbers in response to actual unacceptable conditions, one need not accept the status quo. Case in point, the Jan 6 folks. For reasons we won’t get into here, they thought they were in the right. They did not succeed in large part because not enough people agreed with them. Should significantly more people become convinced the government is no longer by, of, and for the people I believe things would go differently. It would be a messy business, but I wouldn’t be compelled by that reason alone to flee.
Like others, unless something happens to make this place literally, catastrophically, unlivable I’m going to be here until the end. No country with the Queen on their money is going to be interested in taking me in and I’ve forgotten all my high school French. Probably too late to join the Foreign Legion for citizenship via service in Algeria.
My wife speaks fluent Spanish and has family ties to Peru (I think she gave up citizenship though) but shit would have to be on fire before deciding that dealing with the Peruvian government/system is a step up.
This is me. I would like to go RIGHT NOW but too old, no money, and no skills that would make me an attractive candidate. Also no relatives or potential spouse to open the door to citizenship somewhere else.
How bad would it have to get in the US for those who want to leave to be candidates for refugee status in, say, Canada?
Assuming you don’t want to be laughed at, it would have to be a hell of a lot worse than it is today…like several orders of magnitude. Or, just look at who IS eligible for refugee status in Canada to get an idea of what you’d need to rise to the level of.
Going down the list here, the only one I think you’d qualify for is ‘arrived via the Canada-United states border’. Other than that, you have a lot of hurdles to jump through to qualify for refugee status in Canada and put you ahead of the actual refugees who are applying for this.
I have long been interested to see what the international (and particularly Canadian) response would be if Obergefell were overturned, and all marriages under that ruling were summarily dissolved. (It would be but a short step from there to gays being hunted for sport in the U.S., in my opinion, but marriages legally dissolved, families broken up by the government is some pretty high-level shit by itself.)
This is my situation. If I could afford it, I’d already be in Canada with a couple of my besties or in France/Netherlands where I know they would visit often. On the other hand, Belize beckons and so does New Zealand.
What makes you think this time would be any different?
History seldom repeats exactly, and lot depends on which group(s) get targeted. Evangelical whack-jobs like Jews due to their role in their End Times mythos, or at least want them to exist.
I guess I’m a freak: was born here and love living here. I’m not going anywhere.
History doesn’t repeat so much as it rhymes. As for the latter that could just translate to “encouragement” make aliyah.
If you follow the link in the post above yours, you might be in luck.
Also remember that is wasn’t all that long ago that Canada accepted a whole lot of draft dodgers who didn’t want to be sent to Vietnam, so there’s already a precedent for accepting Americans fleeing their government.
If a new US government did start actively oppressing gays, you’d probably have a good shot at getting asylum in Canada.
I think the truth is that when something REALLY goes down, proximity to the Canadian border alone, could prove to be everything. In early hours, and/or days, I feel like they would flat out let people flee into the country, possibly at every crossing, possibly by the thousands.
I think border states could see a big cohort of leavers. Beyond that, it wouldn’t take long for roadways to clog or the US border to slam shut to leavers.
One obstacle to Americans fleeing overland is that much of the US/Canadian border is wilderness or extreme rural with brutal winter weather (and a long winter). I’d expect the border cities to slam shut first, either by the Canadians or the New Regime wanted to stem the tide of people leaving. Navigating the wilderness/rural areas would be very difficult for a lot of people, especially in bad weather. GPS? The US military is capable of cutting that signal off to civilians and keeping it for themselves. Those attempting to flee might be back to map and compass.
I have not ever dared to actually hope this. Thank you humbly.
I would only leave if I had to and I can see that situation only arising if the government (or whatever authority that might take over if it collapsed) threatened my liberty, safety, or life.
Frostbite is brutal. And the situation has already happened, but to third-country refugees trying to pass through the US to get into Canada:
We’ve semi-seriously considered it. Problem is: we have aging parents in the US who require our financial support. We have two special-needs adult kids in the US, ditto. So, ease of access to the US is a requirement - which pretty much means Canada, Mexico, or perhaps the Caribbean or Central America.
Canada doesn’t really want us. We could earn similar income, in urban areas, to what we earn here - but it’s tough to find a professional job there, and looking at the scoring system for immigrants, we’re too old even with our professional skills. Retiring to the Caribbean, Mexico or Central America might yield some affordable options but there’s the issue of safety, plus the longer-term effects of global warming are serious concerns (note: I have NOT researched details there, I just get the impression that more tropical areas are gonna get hit by hurricanes etc. more and more). Also, we don’t speak any Spanish, so we’d need to go somewhere where English-speakers are common, which narrows things down.
If we had unlimited funds, Malta or New Zealand would be options as both have economic immigration policies. Other countries might, as well.
Long story short: it would take our having the family issues resolved, plus employment / economic barriers removed, then we’d quite possibly take the plunge.
The only thing I could think of would be if my son emigrated. He’s my only child and I would like to live near him.