I’d also like to see Ryan Adams as a guest judge. That would be a hoot.
I meant Melissa’s ghost. . ooooowwwwwwooooo.
If Katherine wears another empire waisted dress, she could be singing about her 3 lady lumps.
I like Chris but I didn’t like his “Walk the Line.” When Johnny Cash sang it, whether he meant it or not, I believed him. When Chris sang it, it may well’ve come straight from his true blue sitting-in-his-hotel-room-alone-lusting-only-in-his-heart soul, I dunno. Despite his introduction though, his version seemed contrived and if it were me, I’d still propably want to know where he was yesterday afternoon and why his T-Shirt smelled like Baby Doll. I think he could’ve substituted the lyrics of “Third Rate Romance” and the vibe would’ve been about the same.
For all the angst, there just wasn’t any urgency. To me, it was all alt effect with no real heart coming through.
Sorry, never watched much beyond the audition rounds before. The winners don’t tend to be the kind of artist that interest me. I can’t see myself buying an album by any of the winners, or offshoots, so far. Now, if Justin from season one had played up the germ of Jeff Buckleyness I saw in his audition, maybe. But American Idol corrupted him, IMHO, and instead of becoming an interesting, original artist, he’s a third rate pop clone. If Elliott were to become a hardcore jazz vocalist, like All Jarreau, I’d buy his album. Hopefully he’ll get voted off before AI has a chance to corrupt him too. Ditto for Katherine: if she retains some individuality, and goes for a smaller career as a great jazz-inflected interpreter rather than trying for a huge career as a pop tart, she could have some lasting significance.
Like Holly Cole (before she jumped the jazz ship for the passing pop barge and ended up missing both boats entirely), Diana Krall, k.d. lang, etc. None of them have ever been the chart topping superstars that these AI kids aspire to be, but they’re all great artists with solid, artistically respectable careers.
Mandisa, now, she could take Aretha’s torch, when Aretha’s ready to pass it. She’s the only superstar of the bunch. Chris, yeah, he *should *be touring. He should be touring state fairgrounds in a “Songs of the Nineties!” show with dancers in sequined grunge ensembles.
My apologies, it was on the Corrs live album and featured Bono, not U2.
Yes, sir, Ryan Adams and Rufus Wainwright as guest writers would be a crack-up.
But, in all honesty, if they were looking for any kind of “significance,” would they really be appearing on a reality show? On Fox, no less – the network that brought us such culturally important programs as “Joe Millionaire,” “Married with Children,” and “Paradise Hotel”?
I understand what you’re saying here, and I kind of agree with you, but that’s beside the point. The people behind “American Idol” have no interest whatever in discovering and developing career artists – that’s what Wind-Up Records is for. (And they are largely responsible for the mess that is Scott Stapp, so it’s not like their hands are clean, either.) “American Idol” is all about making as much money as possible for the people behind “American Idol.”
As I’ve said about other reality shows that I watch, my view from the cheap seats is excellent, but it’s really hard for me to fault anyone for having the cojones to even audition for a show like this, where so many people enjoy picking you apart afterwards. I have ten years of voice lessons under my belt, and believe me, I would absolutely sell my soul for just one million-selling single, I don’t care how trashy it was. Art, schmart: I have bills to pay.
You say this like it’s a bad thing. Here’s the thing: Chris has a family to support. Getting famous on “American Idol” might ruin his “street cred,” but obviously he doesn’t give a shit, so why should we? His “Idol” money will pay the mortgage and feed the kids. It’s hard to argue with that motivation. I’m pretty sure that he’s going to make more money in two years by being associated with “Idol” than he would have made in two lifetimes of customer service.
I think what this boils down to, though, is something you said in this post: “The winners don’t tend to be the kind of artist that interest me.” Which is fine, but then why are you watching? I’m not saying you shouldn’t, but I wonder why you do. It doesn’t seem like you’ve enjoyed anything about it so far – is it really worth the bother? Because the types of artists you seem to like are very good, but their major commercial successes are few and far between, and anyone who cares that much about their art and their craft isn’t likely to audition for a show like “Idol,” anyway. It would be beneath them, don’t you think?
(And by the way – there wouldn’t be any sequins on the grunge outfits. And if there were dancers at all, it would be because there was a Mötley Crüe or a Duran Duran medley involved somehow.)
I can’t speak for lissener, but I’ll answer the question for myself. I’m not into current pop (I think the last contemporary album I bought was by Peter Gabriel, somtime in the 80s), and there’s a snowball’s chance in hell I would ever buy an album by any AI contestant (my wife bought Clay’s album, but I had nothing to do with that). But I enjoy listening to the performances – particularly when it’s a theme night, and I recognize most of the songs – and getting into the competition aspects.
I’ve seldom seen such a made-up controversy. Questions…
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When has Chris ever claimed to have done an original composition? In fact, last week, the producers showed that part of the interview in which he explicitly credited the Chili Peppers. In all likelihood, he did the same thing again, but this time, it just didn’t air. They don’t get to air every word.
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When has a judge ever claimed that Chris just did an original composition? “Making it your own” doesn’t mean making it up out of thin air. It means adapting a song in such a way that it is best suited to you. Chris wisely selects arrangements that suit him better than the mainstream ones.
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What evidence is there of any conspiracy to portray Chris as a composer and song writer? Whether or not you think he sounds like a goat, or whether or not you think he has a handsome profile, what does any of that have to do with the claim that he’s deliberately trying to deceive people with the help of judges and producers?
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Why should we believe that the judges, who are privy to the practices and coaching sessions, and all of whom have some non-trivial expertise in the field of music, are oblivious to — not just one night — but a long string of theft and deception. It’s not a claim that they overlooked an obscure version in a hidden track (hidden to everyone but complainers, I suppose); it’s a claim that week after week Chris manages to snow them with a smile and a thank-you. And no one has said anything to them to make them any wiser.
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Why should he break out of his consistency? For what purpose? To illustrate that he’s uncomfortable singing like Kevin Covais? Why does it not make sense for him to follow the advice that judges have consistently given since year one, that the singers should choose songs that are a good fit, that they should do them in a style that best suits them, and that they should perform them with a real-world intensity as though it were to be their own record?
No one said anything about original compositions. Making it your own means giving it a fresh twist that expresses your own personality, not someone else’s. Chris is a plagiarist, stylistically speaking, who seems to be–subject to future clarification or, god forbid, future originality–willing to accept credit for the creativity of others. See? So much simpler when straw-free.
Just in case this isn’t clear, those are my words replacing Liberal’s words within the quote tags:
I feel like the “<snip>” and the brackets should make that over-abundantly clear. But in an attempt to keep my post straw free, even for grasping at, I want to be explicitly clear on that.
We need a whooshy smiley.
I tend to agree with Liberal here, and I don’t think his argument is “bizarrely contentious.” What I do think is bizarre is that you call Chris a plagiarist yet the others go free. Can you name one of the contestants who has done a completely original arrangement/performance? I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: None of these contestants is doing anything original. They’re all accepting the credit for the creativity of others. How is it, for instance, that some believe Taylor is so unique and fresh and original, yet he’s obviously copied his style and even his mannerisms from other artists. Who have you seen put a totally fresh twist on a song? Honestly, if you want originality, you should watch Nashville Star. The folks over there have to write their own original compositions.
I’m losing patience with this pissing contest and may take my eyeballs elsewhere. Who the hell cares? Chris may have gotten some bonus brownie points for originality that he doesn’t deserve. Or maybe not. Big deal…when the ultimate winner is based on teen-age girls with redial, it doesn’t amount to a hill of beans.
And that’s assuming that American Idol as a whole amounts to anything in the larger picture. Which it doesn’t.
Relax, people. Don’t make me press the ! button.
You’ve still never explained how this makes him any different from his competitors. Why are you so obsessed with the guy?
No one on AI is especially unique. However, all of the best ones have synthesized a range of influences into some sense of personal style. How “original” is k.d. lang, in the sense that you mean it? How unique is she, though, overall? Pretty dang unique. Chris doesn’t synthesize, he copies. I, personally, sense close to zero unique personality laid over the influences, which he draws from an extremely narrow range in the first place. He seems, so far, incapable of “making a song his own,” he can only do a song outside his comfort zone–a Stevie Wonder song; a Johnny Cash song–if some other artist has already done the work for him. None of the other contestants are brilliant at it–none of them is k.d. lang or Johnny Cash in their ability to put their own stamp on a song outside their genre–but it’s a bit eyerolling to me (personally; YMMV) that the one who’s WORST at this is getting credit for being BEST at it. Even Bucky, the worst singer remaining, has done a lot more “synthesizing” and putting his own stamp on songs than Chris.
:rolleyes:
There’s been no suggestion that we can’t continue to share opinions about this, only that we shouldn’t be rude about it. Frankly, “I’m losing patience with this pissing contest” is about as rude as it’s gotten so far. And if historical significance were a criterion for Cafe Society threads, well then there wouldn’t be much in the way of Cafe society threads.
Seems to me if the choices are, as I understand you’re offering us: 1. we stop discussing our opinion of some amateur singers; 2. you press the the ! button to make us stop; or 3. you take your eyeballs elsewhere. Hmm. Do we get to vote?
lissener, regardless of your second post, you know better than this. You’re using a quote tag not to quote but instead to attack. Not allowed. Cool it - it’s OK to be contentious in this forum as long as it’s about the issue and not the user.
Hmm. Having been scrupulously careful about this, please explain to me–via email if you prefer–how expressing my opinion that a poster’s argument is a straw man is an “attack.” Serious question. I was very, very careful to stay “on message.” I even went so far as to make triply sure that it was clear that I was not intending to put word’s in Liberal’s mouth, but merely to describe his argument.
Hear, hear.
Previous years didn’t involve this snarling, even when Fantasia was on. And boy, did people ever love or hate Fantasia! 
Not that I’d expect you to, but you obviously have not scrupulously kept up with every word I’ve written on this. Only my stalkers truly understand me.
I’ve said more than once that no true original would have made it this far in the competition. AI is not about originality, it’s about marketability. So I’m not judging their originality against the World or Music; only ranking them, as it were, among the remaining ten or whatever it is. I just find it amusing that in praising the least original singer for being the most original, the judges are exposing the narrowness of their respective–hell, collective–reality tunnels.*
*Thanks to Cervaise for my new favorite phrase.