Well said, sir! 
Oh yeah? Well, um, nertz to you!
My husband and I think that this is the most talented group, up and down, they’ve had so far. Yes, there was Kevin, and there’s pretty pretty Ace, and, but even Kevin could keep to a pitch. There were some contestants in previous seasons who were much worse than a Kevin or an Ace, singing-wise.
And while I don’t like a couple of them, I don’t think any previous seasons have had so many people I think could legitimately win this. Last year had Bo and Carrie and not much else (and I really disliked Carrie, so ho hum). The year before had Fantasia and not a lot of competition, really. LaToya and Jennifer could both sing, obviously. I didn’t watch before that season.
Melissa, who left first, was a better singer than a number of people from last year, I thought.
In writing this post, I keep being struck by how hard it is to remember who was on it last year. Wifebeater and tracheotomy boy! Baby V and Baby Ozzie! Er, some other people!
Really? Then how do we know that you’re talking about American Idol? You never mentioned it in your post. We can tell what you’re talking about because it isn’t necessary that you transcribe your every thought to clue us in. Since Chris has mentioned in the past the artist whose rendition he did, it stands to reason that he didn’t suddenly begin hiding it. And since he likely spent an hour or more with Barry and the interviewers, not to mention time with the band practicing, it is likely that someone somewhere knew who the artist was.
Are you seriously suggesting that Chris was able to dupe a whole slew of “professional musicians” by some coy misrepresentation with a few bars of bleat? I can’t decide whether that makes him brilliant or stupid. After all, the best that he can gain by his deception is a good comment from Simon (who voted “no” at his audition, by the way) because God knows we non-professionals out here are familiar with all the hidden tracks.
No, it doesn’t. You suggested that, and you do not constitute evidence. You bolded some pronouns in a comment by Randy, interpreted them, and declared that to be evidence.
You realize, surely, that I could quote a snippet from your post verbatim and completely change the meaning you intend here. It’s not that hard.
I think it would be wise to take Walter’s advice here. I mean, you’re suggesting that I might be disingenuous in the same post that you lambaste me for what you consider to be getting inside your head. There’s no reason we can’t keep this civil.
Um, excuse me, but unless this is a monologue by you, then I get to contribute to the “discussion”. I think it matters what would happen if Chris did the opposite of what you accuse him of because then he becomes just another Idol contestant, doing the same thing the rest of them are doing.
Again, I hope we can be civil about this. We need not attack one another’s intelligence. You gave me two choices. That’s a dichotomy.
Actually, he sang the Live version at the piano. It was only a few bars that we heard, but there was no way to mistake that for the Cash version.
Agreed. But that’s not what I did. I explained why it was logical.
Actually, I didn’t mean you in particular are irrational. A bit aggressive, maybe, but there was much discussion about this before you came in. I reckoned that you just stumbled on it suddenly. By accident. Without being led here by anyone in particular. In fact, I complemented you before engaging you at all. Check. Honestly, it’s there.
We both have exactly bubkis. We both have biases. I don’t think you’re a lesser person because you don’t like Chris.
Um, “Here’s someone who transcends karaoke, & he ought to be on Rock Star?” “Good for him?”
Um, I think your arguments sound like you’re trying to make an objective case instead of stating a taste. Hence, the beef.
For the record, I like Chris’s interpretations. Some of the others are a bit more … conventional, & at least he finds something that suits his style & persona, rather than the alternative of trying to fit into too many different boxes & failing to establish his own identity.
But after Rock Star:INXS, where rearranging was rewarded, I find myself spoiled. I’m less impressed by Chris’s alternative takes, because I know he’s swiped them.
Well, at least he’s swiped two in a row. I think his “Wanted Dead or Alive” was more distinct. Maybe he needs more than a week to really make a song his own, & what’s strange about that?
I have to agree that Rock Star set the bar much higher. Those were some really good singers, a really knowledgable panel, a great band, and some classy people all around. I remember the very first episode when the boyband-looking guy from Charlotte was cut. His response — wishing the band and the show success, and praising his fellow contestants for their talent and hard work — set the tone that almost every show followed from then on out. (With the exception of the guy with the mohawk who sulked that he was cut because of some kind of prejudice.)
Um, Barry Manilow, in the clip before Chris’s performance, can be clearly heard saying, “I haven’t heard this rendition before.” It is indicated that they didn’t just make it up there. I don’t know if one should blame Chris, or just the clip editor, but an acknowledgement of Live would have been nice. I came on the SDMB to find out where Chris got the arrangement from.
Ah. No, I’m lissener; you’re reading Liberal. I’m the one trying to make the point that these are individual opinions, not objective facts. Liberal’s the one asking for “cites” and junk. Just because I state my opinion does not mean that I claim it as fact. In fact, if you’ll read my posts, you see that I make a pretty explicit effort to keep the “opinion” aspect of this discussion in the forefront.
Um, yeah, I guess. But you both do go on.
Right. Liberal’s made 5 more posts arguing trying to “disprove” anti-Chris opinions since I stopped talking about Chris, but we both go on.
(Maybe a response more along the lines of, “Um, yeah, I guess, my bad,” would’ve seemed less, well, petulant. But whatever. You’ve got your agenda. See how much good it does for me to “drop” something? How I can’t get any credit at all when I actually do drop it?)
The best place to check for things like that is TWoP. The consensus there is that his credit to Live was likely edited out, based mainly on the fact that he has no history of deception or motive to deceive, while producers have no choice but to edit clips for time. Someone who allegedly has attended the show reported that the pieces play while the singers are busy with pre-broadcast busywork, and that they do not get to watch them. So Chris had no idea that Live had not been credited.
News linked from there to MTV and E!Online says pretty much the same thing — smart money is on editing. From E!:
Still, there are detractors, like our own David Bloomberg (DavidB, for you old-timers). TWoP reported that he had gushed over Chris’s rendition, so maybe he now feels slighted.
(And Lissener, I haven’t asked you for any cites. I just asked you to explain why you feel the way you do. I asked you for reasons.)
::: Moderator grumbles under his breath :::
I’m about to conclude that I should close this thread, and all future “Idol” threads should be opened in the Pit only.
Do I really need to do that? Or do you think you can play nice? Liberal, you’re putting one toe across a fuzzy line. Lissener, your proper response is to hit the REPORT button, not to reply in kind.
For the 2000s episode, I hope someone sings that “You Had a Bad Day,” song, which came out last year. That’s the one they play during the video send-off, “let’s watch ____'s journey.”
Talk about tempting fate!
Worse would be someone singing Dido’s “Thank You.”
So anyway.
I think they should do a Stephin Merritt night. [All lyrics are partial; no complete lyrics posted.]
Bucky will sing “Papa Was a Rodeo”
Papa was a rodeo, Mama was a rock’n’roll band
I could play guitar and rope a steer before I learned to stand
Home was anywhere with diesel gas, love was a trucker’s hand
Never stuck around long enough for a one night stand
Before you kiss me you should know: Papa was a rodeo
Mandisa, “Sweet Lovin’ Man”
*There’s an hour of sunshine,
for a million years of rain
but somehow that always seems to be enough,
When love falls from the sky, nobody ever asks why
You just take it or you leave it where it was
but there’s just one kind of love
you can spend your life dreaming of
For the love of a sweet-lovin’ man
some have traveled far and wide
some have given up and died
For the love of a sweet-lovin’ man *
Taylor, “Aging Spinsters”
you should find someone
as loyal as a dog
who will still love you
when you look like a frog
somone to rock you chair
and bring you pink lemonade
someone to peel your grape
at 100 degrees in the shade
Katherine, “Kiss Me Only with Your Eyes”
mary daly drove one day to town
in her virgin’s veil and wedding gown
when the priest said: “you may kiss the bride,”
mary pulled her veil down as she sighed:
“kiss me only with your eyes
more than this I should despise
this and no more, if you can
as you are a gentleman,”
and rapped his knuckles with her fan
Chris, “Heaven in a Black Leather Jacket”
*She’ll be leaving on a Sunday morning train
I’ll be hanging around the docks again
Some work is never done
Can’t sleep for holding on 'til then
Heaven in a black leather jacket
Hit me like a hurricane
Heaven in a black leather jacket
I don’t even know your name
Heaven in a black leather jacket
Kiss me in the Hollywood rain*
Lisa, “Let’s Pretend We’re Bunny Rabbits”
*Let’s pretend we’re bunny rabbits
Let’s do it all day long
Let abbots, Babbitts and Cabots
Say Mother Nature’s wrong
And when we’ve had a couple’a’beers
We’ll put on bunny suits
I long to nibble your ears
And do as bunnies do *
Ace, “Blond Adonis”
I’m the new greek statue
you can take home and enjoy
I’m the dream of every queen
the world’s most gorgeous boy
I’m the billion dollar baby
with a million dollar smile
I’m the toast of every coast
and I can’t sing - oh, honey
Kellie, “A Chicken with Its Head Cut Off”
*Eligible, not too stupid
Intelligible, and cute as cupid
Knowledgeable, but not always right
Salvageable, and free for the night
Well my heart’s runnin’ round like a chicken with its head cut off
All around the barn yard falling in and out of love
Poor thing’s blind as a bat
Gettin’ up, fallin’ down, gettin’ up
Who’d fall in love with a chicken with its head cut off?
Woah Nelly*
Elliot, “Love Is Like Jazz”
Love is like jazz You make it up as you go along and you act as if you really know the song but you don’t and you never will so you flaunt your mistakes and you make them until they were you Love is like jazz the same song a million times in different ways “Strange Fruit” with and without wind chimes It’s divine It’s asinine It’s depressing and it’s almost entirely window dressing but it’ll do
Paris, “Underwear”
A pretty boy in his underwear
A pretty boy in his underwear
If there’s a better reason
to jump for joy
who cares
Is he related to Tift Merritt?
I beg to differ - I liked his version of “Wanted Dead or Alive,” but thought at the time that it was exactly the same as Bon Jovi’s version.
I hesitate to get involved in this debate that everyone is sick of already, but…oh, I can’t help it!
My feeling is that Chris is being blamed for the ignorance of the judges. I certainly understand that it’s annoying to hear the judges heap praise upon Chris for his “originality” when the only ‘original’ thing he did was choose an obscure arrangement to copy, but else should Chris have done? Interrupt the judges and say “excuse me, but, ah, that was Live’s version, actually.” Or say to Ryan “I’m sure glad they liked my performance of Live’s arrangement!” Nobody else would do that. The best contestants take the judges’ comments with a smile and a nod and shut the fuck up about it. To call attention to the fact that the judges didn’t recognize the arrangement would be a dumb thing to do, becasue he did a good job, they liked him, and it’s up to the public to decide whether to dial his digits or not. He’s trying to win, people.
Besides, how would Chris have known in advance that the judges weren’t familiar with the Live version? It might not be a stretch to assume they hadn’t, but it could have easily worked out like this:
Randy: Yo dude, that was solid. I love the Live version of that song, and you worked it out! Chris is hot tonight!
Paula: You are such a star and (unintelligible)…blueprint…wow…(faints)
Simon: I’m disappointed…(audience boos for five minutes)
Paula: You wish you could walk the line! (faints)
Simon: I’m familiar with the Live version of that song, and though it’s not what most people would probably choose, I felt it was a very faithful karaoke performance. I would like you to branch out and take more risks. It was good, but I think you can do better.
Then there’d be no problem, right? But Chris would not have done anything different.
Mainly, though, the original/not original controversy is really much ado. What matters at heart is whether the contestant’s performance was entertaining, engaging, and technically proficient. Originality is the second rung of the ladder, because if every single person does “karaoke” versions of every single song, it’s going to get boring. In fact, though I generally like Chris’s singing, I’m starting to get bored with him because he always sounds the same. So originality is good, to the extent it can be achieved in this format, but not the most important thing.
As has been mentioned many times, I doubt that any of the contestants are coming up with their own totally unique arrangements. They come from somewhere - whether from a recorded version or from their voice coach or from Barry Manilow or whatever. And the source of these arrangements more often than not goes uncredited.
Don’t know, not that I’ve heard. Not remotely related musically.
Does 2000 count as 21st century?
I’m building a weirdass idea list for the contestants.
Ace–Superman, Five for Fighting
Taylor–Cab, Train
Mandisa–Beautiful, Christina Aguilera
Paris–Get the Party Started, Pink
Bucky–Celebrity, Brad Paisley
Chris–Somewhere a Clock is Ticking, Snow Day
Kellie–Cry, Faith Hill
Lisa–White Flag, Dido
Elliott–Used to Love U, John Legend
Katherine–My Humps (yeah, I got nothin’)
I don’t have a dog in this Chris: poseur or genius? fight, but as I read Shayna’s post #355 (My God! Over three hundred fifty posts here!), I kept thinking “These interpretations are so extreme.” Not meaning to pick on you, Shayna, but here are some of the points therein that I think don’t hold up well.
“The pre-performance clips of each contestant centered entirely arround how they worked with Barry Manilow to make their own arrangements of the songs they’d be performing.”
Well, there’s “make” and then there’s “make.” I don’t think they were necessarily purporting to create original arrangements from scratch. Perhaps by “make” they really meant “select, and perhaps tweak.”
“There is an obvious implication that he and Barry (the “we” in his sentence), are going to change up Cash’s version, not Live’s version. Sure, you could say that he totally meant that he was going to do a different artist’s version of Johnny Cash’s song, but that’s not what he said, and it would be quite a stretch to get such simply stated words to that conclusion.”
First of all, the “we” isn’t necessarily referring to Chris and Barry. It may seem obvious from your perspective, but I don’t see it as at all obvious. It could be an editorial “we,” and/or a reference to the fact that Chris isn’t the only one involved in his singing, i.e. there’s the band, Barry, the show as a whole - any number of ways to interpret “we.” And the reference to Cash doesn’t have to mean that the different version is based directly on Cash’s version. It could have been a tribute the popularity and recognizability of Cash’s version - and the fact that he wrote the song - in contrast to the noticeably different other artist’s version he choose to work from. I don’t see much of a stretch to that interpretation, in fact I think it’s more of a stretch to ascribe to Chris’s statement the narrowness and precision that you have.
“And there’s nothing to support your contention that there’s a “likelihood” they just edited out his offering of proper credit for the arrangement in this case.”
Oh, man. There’s a likelihood - hell, a sure bet - that they edited out (more accurately, choose not to air) 95% of what anyone on that show said.
“One can draw 2 conclusions from that statement: 1, that the judges were completely unfamiliar with the Live version of that song, and 2, that they came away from watching the pre-performance clip with Barry thinking the exact same thing the rest of the audience believed, that he, Chris Daughtry, came up with that arrangement entirely on his own (with Barry, of course), which we all now know is a flat out falsehood.”
One can draw that conclusion, but it’s not the only logical or plausible conclusion. I think this was nicely addressed in Liberal’s post #357.
This show isn’t trying to be serious journalism. I don’t think it’s realistic to expect that the artists, judges, whoever are carefully selecting their words for impeccable exactness and no possibility of ambiguity or misconstrual. A strictly literal interpretation of everything uttered is not the only way to view it, and I would say is not the most reasonable way to view it.