An argument for forced sterilization?

Of course I feel sorry for those kids, because they will suffer enormous emotional scars from the trauma of being raised without any discipline. But you know whom I feel most sorry for? Us. We citizens of the world who will have to encounter these sociopathic little monsters. Their teachers, who can’t control them in their classrooms. Their classmates whose education is hindered by their constant disruptions. Their neighbors whose houses they vandalize all in the name of fun. The old woman on the bus whose purse they swipe as they run out the back door, just to get a laugh.

The police officer who will go home dog-weary because he had to spend hours arresting these snot-mouthed little brats, doing all the paperwork and dealing with the indignant, moron parents. The policeman’s wife who wishes that her husband had half the time DorkDave had to snap candid shots of their children, but he’s too exhausted from chasing down these stupid punks. Us. I feel sorry for all of us.

These parents are an abomination. When you bring children into the world, you have an OBLIGATION to the rest of society to raise them to be decent citizens of the world. These two will definitely not be. G-d save us all.


“How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world.” - Anne Frank

At the risk of appearing much too obsessed with this thread and/or fruitcake’s journal, I submit for your approval an excerpt from the [December 27, 1999[/ur] entry:

Let’s play armchair psychotherapist! I think he’s afraid if he spanks his kids he’ll be as bad as wicked daddy who punched him in the face. After all, the kids aren’t trying to destroy anything, they just want to have a little fun! What kind of ogre wants his kids to feel bad for having fun? Heaven forbid they should hate him the way he hates his father.

Anyone else want to play?


“I hope life isn’t a big joke, because I don’t get it,” Jack Handy

[url=“http://members.aol.com/gr8kat1/KatGen/home.htm”]The Kat House](http://members.xoom.com/_XMCM/DaveVan/99q4/991227.html)
Join the FSH Webring

OK, I ruined the thread, I’m stopping now.


“I hope life isn’t a big joke, because I don’t get it,” Jack Handy

The Kat House
Join the FSH Webring

OldBroad, in regards to your original question, my answer is HELL YES!! This just proves what I’ve been saying for a long, long time; just because people can breed doesn’t make them good parents!

Like Shayna said, I feel sorry for all of us when these two heathen get let loose on society.

Geez, this is pathetic. Some people shouldn’t have access to a computer much less a camera.

He’s probably trying to get pictures for one of those stupid “Home Video” programs or something.

Aha! I was right!

So it’s better to let the kids destroy the house than be a “bad guy.” Uh-huh. Yeah.

“I hope life isn’t a big joke, because I don’t get it,” Jack Handy

The Kat House
Join the FSH Webring

Well it’s great that he’s able to recognize that his kids are just displaying a normal sense of adventure and play, but he is NOT handling it right. They need to give these children outlets for their curiosity, creativity and energy.

Buy them (or make them) an artist’s easel and some watercolors. A friend of mine dedicated one wall in her daughter’s room to be “the writing wall” where she and her friends could write whatever the heck they wanted on it. In ink if they so chose. If it got filled up, they’d paint over it and let them start over. Give these a dang wall for heaven’s sake!!! (And btw, for those who read what he said about ink not coming off the walls, use hairspray. It disolves ink off of just about anything, including clothes.)

He needs to buy his children the kind of toys that let them be creative. Get them an Easy Bake Oven (instead of throwing flour around on the floor - MAKE something with it), a home made candle maker, Jewelry design kit, or any number of other things that will let them get their energy out in constructive ways instead of destructive ways.

SHEESH! (Sorry, but this guy just really pisses me off.)


“How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world.” - Anne Frank

Yup, I guess this link confirms it. Dad was a mean old ogre, so he doesn’t want to hurt his babies’ feelings the way his were hurt.
http://members.xoom.com/_XMCM/DaveVan/99q4/991126.html

He just doesn’t get that being too lenient is as bad as being too strict. And he gave the kids 4 wheelers for Christmas!
http://members.xoom.com/_XMCM/DaveVan/99q4/991225.html

I’m sure the neighbors are going to love him for that! Can’t you imagine those brats running over every curb and running through every hedge in the neighborhood? And how about when they’re a little older and allowed to stay up later? I’m sure the neighbors will get a kick listening to those things buzz up and down the street all hours of the day and night. He must really hate them.


“I hope life isn’t a big joke, because I don’t get it,” Jack Handy

The Kat House
Join the FSH Webring

when I saw the title of this thread, I couldnt wait to see what all the fuss is about. I figured it was a story of horrific neglector abuse, or another crack addicted mother pumping out a baby, or maybe some racist bigot teaching his kids to hate. See, although I pretend to be appalled at that stuff, it secretly pleases me to know what a better person/parent I am, compared to them.

Well I wasnt dissapointed!

This guy is the absolute worst!!! He is way way worse than the baby-in-the-microwave chick, or the one who heaved her mentally handicapped baby off a bridge. This guy is commiting the worst kind of abuse!

We should report him.

Just FTR…in Canada, if you strike the child, the Child Protective Services WILL remove said child until an investigation is completed…this is due to all the kids who are beaten/starved/neglected/raped/etc while remaining with the parents while under investigation.

I feel soooooo much more validated now that I have read what a lousy job he does as a father.

Not so long ago, MarkSerlin suggested that I would be a candidate for forced sterilization because i said if any man I was screwing hit one of my kids I would gut him like a fish. Do you all agree?

Should I be sterilized? Should MY children be taken from me? Do I need a spanking??

I only ask because;
When Ted was 3-4 yrs old, he would rise early in the AM, and eat raw meat, rifle through cupboards, roam the apartment building, knocking on doors, drawing on walls,I thought about locking his door, but fear of fire was greater than fear of mischief, and no matter how early I got up, he always managed to get up earlier. He also stuck a pencil in my big TV, rendering it un-useable…he has done more than that, but those stand out.

When Frankie was almost two, he spilled a boiling cup of water on himself, he was in the burn unit for 11 days, with 2nd &3rd degree burns to 20% of his body. I was only a couple of feet away when it happened, but it only takes a second. The trauma left him at a developemental level below his years (not unlike the learning disability of those 2 demons you revile) He was almost 4 before he could talk much, and has he done stuff…he put the car into gear when my dad was under it, coulda killed Dad, I was right next to him that time too, I looked away for an instant. After I got the tv fixed, he filled the hole left by the pencil with water from a squirt gun, the tv later recovered, I was in the kitchen, preparing supper when that happened. I couldnt have knick-knacks or anything on tables, no plants, nothing.

Now, Ted helps with the housework, he is sensitive towards animals and old people, he tries hard to please his teacher, I couldnt ask for a better kid.
And Frankie, well, I have lots of plants and clutter now, he never touches it. If he gets a time-out in the morning, the last thing he does before he goes to sleep is to come and apologise for his crime. A more loving precious child there has never been.

But according to the standards you have all set, they are future criminals, not fit to live with decent folk like all of you. I am a terrible mother, and should be punished.

Go fuck yourselves.

Kids do stuff, it isnt always fun, it sure as hell isnt always pretty, but they do it, and they grow out of it.

Maybe all you judgemental self righteous folks should call your moms and ask what YOU did when you were 2,3,4 yrs old.

If you had bothered to read any of his stuff, you would come to the same conclusion I did: Those twins were probably premature, and are not at the normal developmental level of four yr olds, they are learning disabled, and most likely hyperactive. This man is not always happy with his wife, or his parents, or his life for that matter, but he loves those kids! I am glad to see he can take their behavior and NOT beat them! Maybe he could supervise them better than he does, but who here has their children under CONSTANT supervision? He copes as best he can, by writing a journal about his life…which brings me to my next point…Why the hell are you all tearing into him? He didnt come here and make an ass of himself, flame people, etc. He was just minging his own business, doing his journal, and all of a sudden, his life is on trial by people he has never had any contact with?
Who the hell do you people think you are? This isnt a ‘public figure’ ready to be analysed and debated (M.Lewinsky for example expects people to talk) this is just a guy, and his journal.

And Coldfire, you post a link to his pic to make fun of it? How would you feel if he posted yours?

This kind of intolerance is expected on the LBMB, or that anti-kids website (which BTW is so full of hate, it makes our PIT look like Sunday School!) but when I see this kind of flaming directed at a man whose only crime is that he is too nice to his kids…

I dont know what else to say.

You should all be ashamed of yourselves, I know I am.

I ask you to renew my belief in the superiority of this board, and reconsider you earlier posts.

This cracks me up when he says…

Uh, pal, it’s VERY clear you aren’t making any rules in that house.

Did you see all those toys? “here’s a toy, now go play with it and don’t talk to me!”

Sheesh!

Enright3

While I was typing, I missed a couple of posts.

Shayna, THERE is the voice of reason! I love what you said, if you dont already have kids, you should, you’re gonna be a great parent.

Gr8cat, earlier, you mentioned something about looking obsessed, well, you have posted what? 7 times to this…Why? Are you from the childfree(?) board? Why are you so bothered by this guy? I have had people come right out and attact me in the pit, and I never got as worked up as you are about this man and his kids…(not trying to be a bitch, but I have never seen you this way, and I couldnt help but wonder)

http://members.xoom.com/_XMCM/DaveVan/00q1/000106.html
Yup, this kid is headed for jail, she’s heartless, and a dad like that! Horrible.


I am not smiling at you, I have gas.

Oh, and by the way, I will not reconsider my posts. If I post my family’s faces on the Net, then they’re open property to make fun of. I have three children, one of them is learning disabled. They have NEVER acted like that. On the contrary, I’m frequently told what well mannered children I have! It doesn’t appear to me that anyone has ever said “No” to these kids. He’s worried about taking them out to eat? Fer Chrissakes, I never had to worry about that. Not because they were always well behaved, but because they new that they could not bully me or my wife into anything. On more than one occasion either my wife or I would swiftly remove one of our kids from the situation where they were misbehaving and go sit in the car. If they misbehaved at home, we didn’t just send them to their room. Hell they love that! That’s where their books and crayons and stuff are! Stand them in the corner? You bet. One minute for every year of age? O.K, but my timer doesn’t start until AFTER they stand still. Have I spanked them? Yes. Not often, but yes. It’s saved for special moments so the’ll realize the seriousness of their actions… i.e. running out into the street.

So, Kell, just because you’ve had kids with behavioral problems, or just because you’re from Canada too, is no reason to have sympathy for this guy. He’s neglecting his kids, and that’s worse than not punishing them!

I know one thing… if my kids grow up to be axe murders, I’ll NEVER say it wasn’t my fault and dismiss their bad behavior as society’s fault. Puh-Leeeze! The guy is a loser. (Or should that be “looser”)

I’ve always like you (Not that you care one way or the other) and have always enjoyed reading your posts. You’ve talked about your problems, but you seemed to take responsibility for them, and you never blamed anyone else (except maybe your X?). I hope YOU’LL reconsider and not defend this guy. He is not doing right by his kids.

Enright3

Kellibelli, I agree that you make some good points, and I’m sure that the parents among us know too well the kinds of mischief that kids can get into, even when the parents are in the same room. I disagree with some of the posters who’ve stated that this man should spank his children. Personally, I’m against spanking, mainly because I don’t believe it works in the long-term. (Although, I don’t think that swatting your child on the butt makes you a child abuser, either. But we won’t go into that now, or this will be a very long thread).

I believe that many of us were shocked and appalled by this man’s seeming disregard for the well being of his children. For Christ’s sake, if your children were sitting in the middle of broken glass, blood on the floor, would your first thought be to hurry up and get the digital camera so that you could post it on the internet?

It seems to me that his attitude is “Oh well, kids is kids, what are you going to do?” As if it weren’t the parents job to correct the child’s behavior and teach them the appropriate behavior. I realize that his kids have developmental problems, but he states that they are seeing a psychologist. Surely, the psychologist could give him some tips on parenting strategies. And if that doesn’t work out, there are literally hundreds of books, magazines, and web sites full of advice on raising children. I’m a parent, I know it’s tough, but in the long run you are only hurting your child by not discipling them.

I don’t know if you wrote this because of what I wrote in my earlier post, but the reason I suggested that the parents get an alarm clock was that in the pictures he took after the events (esp. the broken ornaments one) you can clearly see bright daylight through the window. Correct me if I’m wrong, but it couldn’t have been all that early if the sun was shining at this time of year. I had a similar problem with my son, and yes I did set my alarm clock for five, knowing that he could wake up at any time after that, even on the weekends. When he started sleepwalking, I locked the doors to the hallway leading to the living room & kitchen and put a potty in his room so that I could lock the bathroom door.

The point is your kids can get into all sorts of trouble despite your best efforts, but you owe them your BEST EFFORT, and frankly, I don’t think that guy is doing anywhere near the best he can do.

Enright, I have always liked you too, and by the sounds of it, you and I parent in the same manner (my kids HATE standing in the corner, and I too, re-start the clock every time they wiggle or whine.)

My point is that until you read all of his (?) posts, you dont really get a feel for his situation. Some kids are harder to parent than others. Some ‘learn their lesson’ faster than others…(like yours) I dont think he is neglectful, althought I DID recommend better supervision, but you know as well as I do, shit happens. Sometimes really bad shit. And do we take responsibility, I like to think so. But what this guy is doing is holding up his misadventures not as proof of what a great father he is, but as a place where other people, parents frustrated by thier childrens behavior can go read and nod and go, “Yup, I hate it when that happens”.

Enright, do you have any experience with twins? My brither has twins, and a more …‘bad’ pair I cant imagine, they make this guys kids look well behaved. twins are different from singles. Really different, and double the trouble.

You are certainly wntitled to your opinion, but I really see no point in this public whipping. ( You dont really haveto go fuck yourself,…sorry.)

tatertot, you made two REALLY good points…actuall, they make me reconsider my stance.**
I believe that many of us were shocked and appalled by this man’s seeming disregard for the well being of his children. For Christ’s sake, if your children were sitting in the middle of broken glass, blood on the floor, would your first thought be to hurry up and get the digital camera so that you could post it on the internet? **
and
I don’t know if you wrote this because of what I wrote in my earlier post, but the reason I suggested that the parents get an alarm clock was that in the pictures he took after the events (esp. the broken ornaments one) you can clearly see bright daylight through the window. Correct me if I’m wrong, but it couldn’t have been all that early if the sun was shining at this time of year.

not so sure now…
kelli

There have always been children who have serious problems whose parents still manage to bring them up to cope with the world as far as their limited abilities will allow. Unfortunately these children don’t seem to have parents with either the intelligence or guts to do the work (hard work) involved in helping them.

I have a grandchild whose early behavior makes Kelli’s son Ted’s antics look like a Miss Manners poster child. The difference is that his parents have taken responsibility for him. He’s a handful if you have hands the size of Shea Stadium, but with their help, he’s doing well.

This father seems proud of the destructiveness of the kids. He’s apparently abrogated his responsibility as a parent. Either that or he’s really good at carrying on a long term hoax.

(Maybe all the reaction to his site will end up as his Ph.D thesis?!?!)

FTR, I never thought Ted would get any better. I used to sit and cry for hours because he was so bad. I spent all day,every day, mad, angry, disciplining him, yelling, all of it. I am not proud to say I even took him to a doctor who put him on speed for kids…" It’ll level him out" he says.

It was awful! Three days later, nerves shot, kid hanging from ceiling, no sleep in days, I threw the pills out.
We rode it out. He is an excellent kid now, but I dont think it was anything I did, its just his nature, just like it was (still is sometimes) his nature to get up in the wee hours and do odd stuff.

I often tell stories of the crap he and his brother did. Am I proud, No!
Am I relieved I survived, YES!

If this is something that can be explained because he has twins, then I have no probem… just sympathy. No, I don’t have any expererience with twins, and I’ll gladly give that much latitude. I only know adult twins. I did read through almost all of the posts, and what I didn’t see were a couple of rambunctious hyperactice kids… what I did see was two kids who don’t appear to know right from wrong. Judging by from his posts he has a lot of growing up to do. Here’s a couple of things that stick out to me…

  1. He still doesn’t see the problem with him teasing his sister to tears over unwrapping a Christmas gift. If I were his dad, I would have rushed over there too.
  2. His kids trashed his brothers office, but he couldn’t help clean it up because it might contain personal papers? Doesn’t sound to me like he even offered. “Hey bro, my kids trashed your house… ha ha ha, see you later.”
  3. Again I say, did you see all those toys? I’m going to go out on a limb here and say I wouldn’t mind being sent to their bedrooms! They probably have all sort of fun stuff to do in there!

Sounds to me like a kid raising a kid. But that’s no excuse either. I was 20, my wife was 17 when we got married (she was pregnant). We’ve been married for over 17 years now. (The real reason we’re together still is because we’re both too stubborn to let our parents be right… “They’re so young, it will never last”). Just joking, we love each other very much. Anyway, Kelli, I just don’t buy it. While I’m at it, I’ll speculate on this… I wonder if they would be able to talk better if they were EXPECTED to talk better. I do not like baby talk. I do not like it, Sam I Am! I don’t know about that one, but I had to say it becase it’s so easy to assume other things when you’re mad at someone.

Enright3

Kelli-
The sorriest part of this whole thing for me, was he seems proud about how bad his kids are. Like its a badge of courage or something. Replace “Broke every freeking ornament” with “Got an A” and the tone makes more sense.

Not to mention the fact that he blames EVERYBODY else for EVERYTHING that happens to him. Its not that we feel these kids are destined to be mass murderers its that we don’t feel daddy has the ability to teach them right from wrong. because anything bad that happens is someone elses fault.


-Frankie
Lack of charisma can be fatal