An argument for forced sterilization?

Kellibelli, thank you for the kind words. No, I’m not a parent yet, but I’d like to be. My experience with children has been this; I have 2 younger sisters and looking after them obviously fell on my shoulders as the oldest. I started babysitting other people’s children when I was 11 and continued throughout college, including watching people’s children for a week or 2 at a time when they went out of town. And I was a “governess/nanny” to 3 children after I graduated from college in exchange for room and board since I couldn’t afford to pay rent on my own place.

And believe me when I tell you that I have seen the absolute worst of them. One of the children I cared for (I basically helped raise him from birth until he was 4 or 5 years old), was a living, breathing nightmare. At the age of 7 (I believe it was) he was diagnosed with manic depression and at age 12 with Tourette’s. This child came out of the womb screaming holy terror and didn’t stop for years. Not knowing about the eventual diagnosis, raising him was extremely difficult. Usually when an infant cries, something will comfort him, be it rocking, changing dirty diapers, putting them in a stroller, cuddling them, singing to them. With Noah, absolutely nothing would make him stop wailing at decibels that could crack windows miles away - for hours at a time.

Your child ran up and down the halls knocking on doors; this child ran out into the middle of the street and layed down in the HOPES that a car would run over him. Your child poked a hole in your television set; this child grabbed a large pair of scissors and attempted to stab himself in the chest. He was constantly rocking or running around or talking. Yammering, yammering, yammering incessantly. He was not an easy child to raise, or even to love at times.

But love him we did (and do). But with that love, amidst all the turmoil and frustration, the most important thing he needed (outside of medication, which is unique in his case, I admit) was DISCIPLINE. He could not always control himself, and we understood that and made certain allowances, but never to the detriment of his well being or the family unit. Children absolutely MUST learn that there are swift and oftentimes severe consequences to their actions.

And I wasn’t a perfect kid growing up either. I did some stupid stuff. But never with malicious intent to do harm (either to persons or things). I remember one Sunday morning, shortly before dawn, I got up before anyone else did. I poured myself a glass of milk and went into the living room. As I stood there looking at the fish tank, I began to wonder if fish ever got bored having only water to drink. So I gave them my milk. HAHAHAHAHA - it’s funny now in retrospect. It wasn’t so funny back then.

But I IMMEDIATELY knew that I had done a bad thing and I ran into my parents’ room and woke my mother and told her what I’d done. She somehow managed to find all the fish and scoop them into pots of water and then clean the tank. Having almost killed my fish, I knew never to do that again.

And therein lies the problem as I read it with Dave’s children (and the NON problem with yours). Dave’s children aren’t learning anything. They keep repeating the same bad behaviour over and over and over again. And it seems to me as though they’re doing it with evil little smirks on their faces.

The difference between you and Dave is that you DO make rules and you DO impose consequences. As a result, although you had to endure some pretty rough years getting there, your children learned proper and appropriate behaviour. Your children will never grow up to be criminals just because they were a bit rambunctious. Dave’s children just MIGHT. They are CERTAINLY showing early signs of the types of behaviour that leads to at least misdemeanor crime.

But in addition to needing proper discipline, those children need a healthy outlet for their normal adolescent enthusiasm. And amongst all the things I could see around that house, I didn’t see one thing that I would classify as something those kids could actually do to harness their energy.

I know the little girl loves her firetruck. But what can you do with a firetruck after you’ve rolled it across the carpet a few times? I guess sit it on a stool and watch television. These children are BORED. That’s his biggest problem.

I would almost bet that if they had a paint set and easel, or they allowed them one wall that they could create whatever they wanted on, that if the kids woke up before their parents did, that that’s what they’d choose to do instead of destroying the house. I mean, if you look closely at all those pictures, every single one of them appeared to me as though they were trying to CREATE something. Even the busted up ornaments weren’t just broken, they were strewn around to make a collage of sorts on the kitchen floor. It looked PRETTY to them! So did the flour and the drawing on the wall.

Parents have to pay attention to their children, because everything they do tells them something about what will interest their child. I’d say these kids have the potential to grow up to be artists, writers or musicians. At this rate, all they’re likely to grow up to be is thugs. Or struggling artists, writer or musicians who just don’t understand why they can’t get or keep a job and no one wants to date or marry them.

And that just makes me sad for them and mad at their parents. They don’t even recognize the gifts their children have been blessed with.

I don’t know how old your children are now, but I wish you all the best with them. I can tell that they have a mother who works hard at providing them with heaps of love balanced with the discipline they need to become healthy adults. I wish the same for Dave and his family - I just don’t hold out much hope that they’ll have that.

I’ve rambled on here long enough, so I’ll shut my trap now.

Shalom,
Shayna


“How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world.” - Anne Frank

Jennifer from the Looksmart childfree support board:

Now THERE’S an argument for forced sterilization. Thank Christ this woman doesn’t want children.

OK, kids, it’s time for Valuable Lessons from this Topic!!!

  1. If you are a jackass loser DON’T keep a web journal, or you are open game for any and all deserved public ridicule

  2. If you do make the mistake of discribing your moronic life in a web journal, please DON’T post pictures. Especially if you are an UGLY moronic jackass loser!

3)When your demon children grow up to be maladjusted losers like you, it’s YOUR fault! Nobody else! Get it through your head!

Got it kids? Good.

I’m curious to know if “Cheryl” is the twins’ mother. It sounds almost like these twins are protesting her, maybe even punishing her.

Or maybe the parents just suck.


I used to think the world was against me. Now I know better: Some of the smaller countries are neutral.

Laura’s Stuff and Things

And here’s the best part:


As far as I’m concerned we are doing everything right and our children are going to turn out just fine.

Need I say more?


Life is a tragedy for those who feel and a comedy for those who think.

I’m sorry, Kelli, I really am. I didn’t realize this was hitting so close to home.

I admit I was struck by his on-line journal (and it was an incredibly slow workday). I was amazed at this fellow’s attitude toward his children’s behavior. As he has said, his own father was a strict disciplinarian and the kids just want to have fun. Wimping out on the discipline when his kids chip the tv screen, destroy the blinds, paint the house, claw each other’s eyes, repeatedly smash Christmas ornaments and wreck strings of lights, etc., etc., etc., doesn’t seem to me to be the way to raise children to be responsible adults. But if his kids have other impairments besides the speech problems and this really is as good as they are able to be, then maybe he’s just decided at this point that it’s either laugh or cry and this is his way of laughing. I just question his judgement in whipping out the camera and sharing the chaos with the entire www.

I’m not on the childfree mb, I got the link the guy’s own journal page. I agree, their sentiments were harsh; as I said, the SDMBers really are being nicer. I guess I just said it flippantly. (I really do want to know if Swan is a Doper.)

I’m sorry, Kelli, I never meant to offend or hurt you.


“I hope life isn’t a big joke, because I don’t get it,” Jack Handy

The Kat House
Join the FSH Webring

I am sorry everyone if I took all this too personally. I went and read expecting not to like this guy, and got to the link to the childfree folks so full of hate, and the protective side of me came up.

I am as guilty (or more) of tearing people down, and lately, it seems like thats all we do. I am gonna try to stop.

(If this post sounds inflamatory, I apologize in advance. It is not meant to be so, and I mean no offense to anyone.)

So it sounds like we all pretty much agree that kids should be directed to positive outlets for their energy, that destructive activity should be punished appropriately, and that this guy has way too much time on his hands if he can stand around snapping pictures of his mischeivious tots, thinking “how cute!”
I don’t have any kids of my own, but I’ve never met any children who have never been naughty or broken anything. I’ve also never met any children who, with proper guidance, couldn’t be taught what behaviour is expected and acceptable. All kids are capable of being good up to their developmental level, regardless of what that level is. (For example, if his kids are developmentally at a 3 year old level, they can be as good as a good three year old.)
A pal of mine works in child protective services here, and she sees the worst of the worst situations children have to live in. This guy’s case is certainly not one of those. However, kids do need some kind of guidance, and these particular kids, from what I and others here have observed from his journal, could be improved and enriched by a little more guidance.
As far as I can tell, every post except the ones about his own appearance or their ugly furniture (and one of those is mine) could be construed as constructive criticism. And there’s nothing wrong with wanting people who’ve undertaken to raise children to do the best possible job of it.

By the way, where is the childfree message board? (It’s probably nowhere near as interesting as SDMB, but I really need to branch out.)

After reading through the pages of this over indulgent fathers “journal”, the one thing that really stuck out in my mind was the ornament episode.

I’m not talking about the broken glass all over the floor or how the bleeding kids were ignored while dad ran for the camera.

What struck me was how days before one kid was horsing around with a tape measure and knocked off a couple of moms "keepsake ornaments. He talks at length about how upset his wife became over the loss of these items.

So what did the little angels do next? Did they avoid the tree to show some fear/respect for their mothers wishes? No, they waited till morning and smashed all the ornaments they could and flung the unbreakable ones about the house.

I guess they needed to remind mom who is in charge.

I was going to respond to this but then I noticed the guy is canadian. You know how those canadians are.