An open apology

The BBQ Pit
1

Since the thread I’m apologizing for was closed by the Administrators, I’m posting what I have to say here. Before I start, I will not respond to further insults or attacks against me or my wife. I am, however, open to discussion and questioning regarding the sincerity of my apology here. I am posting in this forum partly because it is where the problem started, and partly because I suspect it might degenerate into a duplicate of the one that was closed.

One last thing: This is borne totally of my own will based on an evaluation of the way I acted in that thread. It was in no way whatsoever prompted, suggested, or coerced by the staff, nor is it borne of fear of banning. If I’m banned, I’ll be banned. It’s not my desire, but I’ll not give up my convictions and beliefs over the threat of removal from this board. Rather, I have sincere regret over my actions.

While I freely admit disgust at what was said to my wife in the Pit thread (which really is irrelevant for the purpose of this one, so I intentionally am not linking to it), after a few hours to calm down and think about it, I went way over the top with my response. I said some things that were merely hurtful, and made one statement in the form of a joke-in-poor-taste that was flat-out cruel towards Eve, which I choose not to repeat, and regretted immediately after submitting the post - another reason for not linking the other thread here.

Not only that, but I comported myself in a manner completely unbecoming a Christian, which I am, my occasional conduct here notwithstanding. My only defense is that growth as a Christian is a process, not an instantaneous change, and while occasionally I feel like I’m making good progress, there are also times when I feel like I’ve barely taken a step down that road.

Eve, regardless of my feelings toward you, the insulting things I said about you in the pit thread were uncalled for and wrong. My attitude from the beginning in the GD thread was also inappropriately confrontational, although I stand by the content of what I said there. For that, I offer to both you and KellyM my apology and my intent not to have a similar incident.

Now, to the group, by contrast, while I regret my general conduct in the pit thread toward the group at large, I maintain that my anger towards the vicious treatment of my wife was justified (excepting the attacks on Eve - who was not even participating in the thread - for which I do sincerely apologize); that her statement, while it may seem, to some, horribly insulting when taken out of context, was not so when read in the context of the discussion in the GD thread; and that even though I was wrong in my behavior, many of you made statements to Jerseydiamond that were equally as vile as those I made to Eve, and with equally little justification. However, the way I handled my anger was wholly inappropriate. My failure was in not conducting myself as a Christian should. That is between me and my God, and that is where it will be dealt with.

I know this is the pit, but I’d request that you keep the discussion civil and I’ll do the same. If not, I’ll simply stop reading it.

–Joe Cool

2

Ego te absolvo, Joe.

Go now and sin no more.

3

Ah, Joe. I have stayed out of this whole mess purposely. Time and again I have desired to ‘tear’ into you for your behaviour as a Christian and controlling your temper on the board. It makes life on the board hard for the rest of us Christians. But as you say, it is one step at a time. You must learn not to let this board get to you, you must learn to let your wife fight her own battles no matter how hard you want to step in and take up the fight, and you must learn above all that everyone will not agree with your opinions and thoughts and beliefs.
It has gotten to the point where I usually don’t read your posts or your wife’s posts any more because I know that confrontation is on the way. Confrontation in itself is not bad when handled in the correct way.
I commend you on your apology. Eve is a fine, upstanding poster on this board and appearance plays no part of interaction here. As a matter of fact the less said about physical appearances, the better we all get along because we are exchanging ideas and opinions and we dont’ have to worry if we are fat, black, green, white or ugly.
There were ugly things said about and to your wife. But in reading the threads, she literally begged for it and even baited posters. She owes Eve an apology no doubt about that. But we’ll see if she steps up to the plate.
May God keep you in his love and grace.

4

Before someone inevitably comes in here and says some thing like “Best. Apology. Ever.” Or “You are a really classy guy” let me just offer my own opinion.

An apology like this does more to make the apologizer feel better than anyone else. A truly sincere apology would have gone directly to the person you insulted, and continued to insult even after you were called on it. Personally, the display model does nothing for me. Nor would reporting back and telling us all about your email apology. Just do it, and don’t feel the need to cash in on it publicly.

5

Again?

Apologies are worthless if you have to make them too often. Some people never learn that’s better to not do something they’ll have to apologize for in the first place.

6

I think the apology is harmless bullshit but now I’m curious about the original thread. Even if it’s closed, a link can still be made to it.

See?

I’ll be skimming it presently.

7

(After skimming linked thread…)

That’s it?! Some piss-ant hissy-fit wannabe-fundamentalist dustup?

Now, I’m all disappointed and just out of spite, I’ll make this discussion uncivil so Joe_Cool has to abandon his own thread:

Hmm, you’re some kinda fuckwit schmuck, aren’t you?

8

Sorry Brian, I disagree about the word “harmless”. His “apology” isn’t harmless if it’s a reitieration of the inital unjustified attack disguised as an apology.

A real apology would be “Eve, I said horrible things and I’m sorry I hurt you. I apologize. I hope you can forgive me someday.”

The end.

Joe, what you posted was a long drawn out excuse, with an apology tacked on, and then you undermined your whole attempted apology by trying to justify the original insult. (“her statement, while it may seem, to some, horribly insulting when taken out of context, was not so when read in the context of the discussion in the GD thread”). Trust me. What Jersey said in the original thread was disgusting, in or out of context.

You spent, at a guess, about 1/5th of your opening post talking about how your wife was treated badly and defending her intitial statement (if it wasn’t horrible, why did it hurt Eve enough for her to leave the thread?). and in the original thread you (or she, under your name) justified your wife’s initial statment as “ok” because “I was asked a question and I made an observation. I don’t give a rats ass if you, Eve, or frosty the snow man likes it.”, which His4Ever calls an “honest opinion”.

And while that’s a nice, noble sounding phrase, it’s not when it’s being used as an excuse to be needlessly cruel; it certainly was in the original GD thread that started this. What kind of Christian responds to a post that conveys the message “I was hurt by something you said” with “Hey, I was just being honest, get over it”.

Lemme try a couple of analogies: if she was in a discussion with someone who was talking about having gotten over the pain of losing a child, would you be proud of your wife if she popped up with “Huh. You must be a crappy parent.”, even if it was her “honest” opinion?

If you were in a discussion with someone who had to have an arm amputated, would you think it appropriate for her to say “Jeepers! You really look lopsided and ugly now!” even if it was her “honest opinion”?

If someone showed you pictures of their three-year old and said lovingly “She’s such a beautiful baby…” would you expect or want your wife to respond with “No, not really. Your kid looks like a cross between an orangutan and a teakettle.”?

Does she routinely go around telling children with Down’s Syndrome “Golly, you really are stupid!”, even if they are?

And for that matter, why are you complaining that “many of you made statements to Jerseydiamond that were equally as vile as those I made to Eve, and with equally little justification.” when they were just using exactly the same “honest opinion” standard that your wife supports?

In any case, I don’t believe any apology that defends the original offense.

Fenris

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Well, my “harmless” assessment was based on just reading the long-winded (and borderline sanctimonious) apology, before I delved into the reasons Joe_Cool had for writing it (i.e. before I checked the closed thread).

After checking said thread, I’d substitute “meaningless.” That adjective is always going to apply when someone tries using religion as a weapon.

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Joe_Cool, I’ve never spoken to you before, nor read any of the threads about you or directed towards you and your missus, but this thread prompted me to read the relevant threads.

You apologise for behaviour “unbecoming a Christian”.

This seems to imply that it would be OK to act like that if you weren’t a Christian.

Wrong.

Avoiding that sort of behaviour is actually just representative of not being complete fucking wankers, rather than belonging to a particular faith, or not having a faith at all.

And if that hateful, nasty, insulting, intolerant, just-plain-bitchy shit, together with fake apologies, is based on your religion, I’d suggest you lose the faith quick, brother and sister.

11

I especially liked this part:

Joe, regardless of my opinion that you are a sociopath, I am really, really, truly sorry that I insulted you by implying that you were a sociopath in another thread a couple of weeks ago.

12

I’d just like to point out that in Joe_Cool’s closing post in the other thread, he said that he was no more closeminded than I am. (His exact words were “So if I’m guilty of being closed-minded regarding an opposing viewpoint, then so are they.”) I find that I must take exception. My viewpoint is based on a combination of scientific evidence and personal experience. If, as the scientific evidence increases, and if the result of such increase is to invalidate my viewpoint, I will reconsider it. I welcome – even crave – more scientific evidence on this issue.

I do not consider myself to be closed-minded on this issue, and I am offended that Joe_Cool has accused me of such, especially in light of his statement he’s “not interested in seeing things differently”, which is an admission of abject close-mindedness. I would therefore ask for an apology for being unfairly labeled as close-minded, but not if it’s going to be like the one he gave Eve. In any case the offense is minor, insofar as I believe that not many people take Joe_Cool’s opinions of other posters seriously.

13

Heh, reminds me of when I worked for a dodgy newspaper in Hong Kong.

The editor wrote an op-ed making salacious allegations against a politician: “Legislator X is illiterate and has a mistress in Taiwan.”

A writ arrived from Legislator X’s lawyers the next day. So the editor printed a withdrawal: “Yesterday we alleged that Legislator X is illiterate and has a mistress in Taiwan. We apologise for saying this.”

Needless to say, a second writ arrived the next day, and the company was successfully sued for libel… twice.

14

So, before the other thread is closed, you say:

I’m pretty sure most of us would say them to your wife’s face as well as yours.

You insulted a woman who is the epitome of the term class act. Most of us aspire to having the class and composure of Eve.

While you and your wife were still being loathesome to Eve, she was not returning such to you two.

Honest or judgemental? Observation or condemnation?

How hard it must be to be you. You, Jersey, His4Ever… burdened with the yoke of being the only real Christians on the board, so vilified and mocked(unjustly I might add) that yu are granted celestial dispensation to go against the rules set down for you in a book that I believe you and the wife referred to as the true word of God.

Nice.

SO. WHAT.

If Eve isn’t a believer, then she doesn’t deserve the same courtesies as others?

If she isn’t a believer, you and the wife aren’t bound by the same standards of behaviour that you would towards any other being?

You and Jersey are sterling examples of things not to become, no matter what the faith.

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I left when the thread was at page 2 (end of the work day) and was truly stunned when I saw what occurred after I left. I have to say I agree with Lynn on this one.

Also to the OP- if your “apology” has so many qualifiers and restatements of your original arguments that we need a flow chart of it to see if it’s still an apology, people are going to be less then impressed with the effort and likely with think you are just restoking the fires in a way you think won’t get you instantly Banned.

Also-- FYI, this bullyboy “get you in front of me and try say that stuff” crap is simply an attempt at a physical threat to another poster and I am stunned you were not Banned for it.

16

Had to be the Standard.

Joe
I know you think you made an apology, but look at what you rote

and

As Fenris said, this is an exercise in self-justification, not a sincere apology.

A genuine apology comprises three elements:

  1. An acknowledgement of wrongdoing
    2)Genuine contrition for one’s deeds
    3)A promise not to repeat the misdeed

You don’t make an apology by portraying yourself as the victim, mitigating the offense, and then blaming others for making you angry.

Dude, not only do you have a great deal to learn about being a Christian, but also about being a decent person.

17

'Round and 'round and 'round she goes. Where she stops, nobody knows.

Wheee! I could set my clock to these threads cropping up every six months.

“Joe and Jersey, you are awful, insensitive people who’s callousness give Christians a bad name.”

“Everybody, we apologize for anyone being insulted by what we said, but we have to stand by our convictions.”

Etc., etc., etc.

Why doesn’t somebody just make a thread - like that 24 club thread - that lists all the other threads exactly like this from years passed so we can all re-read them and not have to bother posting the same shit again.

It’s really wonderful to see how far progress is going in our fight against ignorance.

:rolleyes:

18

What-fucking-ever. :rolleyes:

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My mother always taught me that “I’m sorry you were hurt by what I said” wasn’t a real apology.

20

I may be off base here, having only read 6 of the who knows how many pages of the other two threads. That having been said, there is a difference between apologizing for an insulting remark and a complete reversal of belief.

So, if Joe’s understanding of Eve is that she is misguided, or whatever, and he said it in an insulting way, or added greater insults, or did other uncalled for things, it’s perfectly sensible to apologize.

That would be a seperate issue from his viewpoint, which may not change. A public apology in this case may be more sensible than a private one, since the threads became pretty public anyway.