And immediately the power struggle begins...

The BBQ Pit
1

No sooner did Aaron get home from the hospital than I was hit with something that I, frankly, find to be almost despicable.

Just for background, I am Catholic. Not practicing, but still Catholic. Robin is Jewish, again, not practicing, but still Jewish. We decided a long time ago to keep religion from becoming an issue. In that, we have been successful. She and I have absolutely no problems whatsoever, since we have had long and substantial discussions about the topic and have concluded that we won’t let something like that get in the way and drive us apart. Frankly, it’s such a small thing that it would be absurd to get worked up about it.

And yet, I’m extraordinarily pissed off right now. Not at Robin, but at her mom.

She apparently is either totally ignorant, or oblivious to the fact that I am in fact a Christian. She insists on having a Bris. Now OK, that’s fine. Circumcision would have happened one way or another. But, the fact that it’s a religious ceremony bothers me. For the sake of peace with my new family, however, I’m willing to bite my tongue and accept it.

However, here’s the kicker…

My mother-in-law has now told me that I am responsible for the travel costs of the Moile, the guy who does the circumcision.

ahem**clears throat

ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR FUCKING MIND, WOMAN?!?!?!?!

She may as well piss on my forehead. Hey, would you be willing to pay half the costs for the Baptism?!?! I thought not. So, why do I have to pay for a man who does stuff I don’t understand to travel to perform a ceremony that I don’t subscribe to?

And since I’m here in San Antonio instead of at home where Robin and I would not have problems like this I have to swallow it like a good little boy or I end up fighting with my in-laws in a strange place.

Boy howdy, this is just wonderful. Oh, and I catch hell for wanting to take my son to the store as well.

I adore Robin more than I can possibly say, but her mother leaves a very bitter taste in my mouth. I can’t wait until we move up to Pennsylvania to leave this all behind.

-Dave

2

Just out of curiosity, is Aaron going to be baptised?

3

What, there’s no mohels near your AFB? Not to mention, your MIL has some nerve, telling you that you are on the hook to pay for something in which you weren’t even consulted. You need to tell her that YOU and Robin are the parents, and you two make the decisions. Do it now, or your MIL will just walk all over you.

Plus, whatever would Jack Dean Tyler say?

4

You’re the “Dad” and where MIL evidently comes from, Daddy pays for all. :rolleyes: :smiley:

How much $$$ are we talking about, anyway?

5

Wow. This woman really sounds special.

Ignoring the JDT nature of whether the kid really needs the snip, to have the mother in law require a bris and then say you should pay for it… pretty galling.

You have my condolences.

6

Yee-owch. Sounds like one of those relatives where it’s rather apparent who got the bad genes (having seen Robin before, I know where alll the good ones went:)).

My mother’s mother (and my mother’s father, and both my father’s parents, but that’s another story) was completely oblivious to the fact that my mother separated from them completely when she married. My mother was Episcopalian and my father Catholic when they met, btw.

YEARS later (like seven or eight), my grandmother took my mother aside during a visit and said “You know, Melissa, I just want to tell you that … your father and I have discussed it, and we’ve decided it’s okay with us if you convert.” And she (grandmother) smiled at her “allowance” of her now married (with I think three children at this point) daughter to dictate her own religious ideas.

My mother laughed and LAUGHED! She wa a grown woman, fer cryin’ in the mud! “Oh, mother, if I’d wanted to convert I would have done so already!”

My grandmother could not to save her LIFE figure out what was so funny.

7

That sucks, Dave. As someody else already said, put your foot down now or it just gets worse.

Good luck, pal.

8

I’m sorry, Dave. I know the kind of stuff you’re dealing with, and I don’t wish it on anyone.

9

Mom’s been trying to control a lot of stuff. She demanded that we not be married on Saturday, despite the inconvenience that a Friday wedding would cause to Dave’s family, with the excuse that weddings on Saturday are “unlucky”. In July, she and my Dad went to a wedding on, you guessed it, Saturday.

She didn’t like the name we had picked out. She threw a fit over it. Fortunately, Dave and I sign the birth certificate, and as far as the State of Texas is concerned, Aaron is Aaron Justin, not the other way around. She can call him what she wants if it’ll make her feel better, but he is Aaron Justin.

As for the bris thing, there is one moyle in the entire city of San Antonio, and he gave me a list of conditions that we could not meet. One was that we belong to a synagogue (neither I nor my parents do), and another was that he wouldn’t do the bris because Dave is Catholic. We’re expected to pay for the moyle to travel from Houston, and he’s happy to do the bris without the conditions that the local guy wanted. It just pisses me off that we’re expected to cover this amount when she knows we’ve also got moving expenses to cover as well.

My personal feeling is that the only reason I care at all is to keep the peace in my family. Dave’s family does not expect us to have the baby baptised, so we’re not going to do that. We’re also not raising the baby as one or the other, so he’s certainly not going to have a bar mitzvah, nor will he go through first communion and confirmation.

Six more weeks, however, and it’s all over. In the meantime, I and Aaron still have to live with her, and it’s easier to appease her on this than it is to fight her.

Robin

10

IMO, this is a pretty major thing to give over on just to keep the peace. Robyn, I sympathize, but if you do not practice a religion, you certainly shouldn’t feel obligated to carry out the traditions thereof, especially at someone else’s demand. I think your mom is being arrogant and unreasonable. As for how to handle it, I can’t say, only that I’d urge you to stick to your guns. This is your child - YOU get to make the decisions. Might as well start now.

Best of luck to you all!

11

Robin and Dave,

I know you two likely didn’t take offense, but when I look at my post above I can’t help but think of how easy it is to tell others how to conduct their lives. Y’all know far better than I what the depths and dynamics are of your situation. I just kind of shot off the hip what I’d tell a friend, but I’d still remember that friend has to live with their life far more intimately than I.

And I also appreciate the need to yell off some frustration. Howl, folks!

Good luck to the three of ya.

12

Robin, Dave, all I can say is… shit.
Sorry to hear it. Nice how someone you love can turn what’s supposed to be one of the best times in your life into a cold war, innit? From my experience, the worst part of this is the one responsible usually just can’t see how unreasonable (without malice) they’re being.

Like a lot of others here, the Mrs. and I have been through some similar situations, though nothing this potentially ugly. For myself, I’d say if she’s insisting on a ceremony neither of the kids’ parents want, she oughtta pony up. OTOH, since she’s not the mommy, however well intentioned she is, she doesn’t get final say anyway.

Of course, there are times when you ‘take one for the team’ (in this case, familial peace) and try to move on. As it seems like the religious aspect of this isn’t a big factor for either of you, this sounds like one o’ those times. Compromise is part of life, an’ alla that.

Take this as consolation: You’re moving, soon. Daily interference becomes less likely with the square of the distance, or something like that. :slight_smile:

<Upon Preview>
Mrs. Skeezix (reading over my shoulder) makes a point: Take Aaron to your doctor, have him circumsized (you were planning this anyway, right?) and present the whole thing as a fait accompli. Get the doctor to back you up that time was a necessary factor in this. :wink:
</Preview>

[sub]Yeah, we know, but at least the thought of this possibility lowers your stress levels a little, right?[/sub]

Good luck, in any case. And congrats, BTW. :smiley: Missed the actual birth announcement (shame on me.) Welcome to Earth, Aaron. There’s no rule book to read, but it sounds like mom and dad can do a good job of teaching you as you play.

13

Guys, MIL doesn’t sound all that bad. The religious rituals are comforting to family. Bris and baptism (I am Christian with a father who is non-practicing Jewish heritage) are both rituals that welcome the newborn to the family, and give the family obligations to the child. I’ve never been to a Bris (and hope to keep it that way), but I’ve listened to many a baptism. They say this explicitly.

And Airman, if you know anything about pushy MILs, they try to tell their SIL/DIL what to do constantly. But I’ve got to agree with the no wedding on Saturday. This woman is a practicing Jew. Show a little respect, it will go a long, long way. I presume that she understands that you are a gentile. Remember when there are conflicts to say something to the effect that: the law of God is that we love God and one another, and move on.

With respect the money for the moile, tell her that money is tight, and could she please make a present to Aaron of that. If she does not understand that money for new parents newlywed is tight, just tell her that you can’t afford a Bris at this time. When she understands that she is going to have to pay for the boy’s religious obligations, she will appreciate much more her role as grandma.

14

“The religious rituals are comforting to family.”

From what I know of Dave and Robin, having met them both in person, and having talked at great length to each both online and in person, I can say with a bit of certainty that this particular religious ritual, while not really all that detrimental to either of them, isn’t of utmost importance to them. IOW, it doesn’t seem (even from what Dave wrote inhis OP) that it’s going to help him sleep better at night knowing his son is circumcised.

“But I’ve got to agree with the no wedding on Saturday. This woman is a practicing Jew.”

Which is, of course, why she and her husband went to a wedding two months after her daughter’s … on a Saturday.

“Remember when there are conflicts to say something to the effect that: the law of God is that we love God and one another, and move on.”

And the Bible says something to the effect that when a man gets married, he leaves his mother and clings to his wife. I would imagine the same applies here, and as such the MIL should respect Dave and Robin’s wishes and especially not expect Dave to pay for a ceremony he isn’t terribly excited about having performed anyay (except that it’ll please the MIL, who doesn’t seem to have the word “compromise” in her vocabulary).

“When she understands that she is going to have to pay for the boy’s religious obligations, she will appreciate much more her role as grandma.”

That’s one possibility. Another is that she’ll just be mean to both of them and think they’re tight-asses who just don’t want to spend the money and will become more angry and demand they give up something they need more in order to pay for the Bris.

Lastly: “Show a little respect, it will go a long, long way.”

The MIL might want to consider this. Robin and Dave moved their wedding to a Friday for them. MIL could show a little respect for Dave and Robin’s wishes and financial situation by paying for a service Dave and Robin aren’t really into a whole lot anyway.

15

Dave and Robin, just one thing I thought of (which may not apply…I don’t know your mother). But if you give in on the bris, it may give her more ammo to use when Aaron reaches bar mitzvah age. Along the lines of “Well, you DID do the bris, so he IS Jewish, so he MUST have a bar mitzvah”.

Something to think about…

16

Thank you, Patrick. That pretty much sums it up.

My MIL won’t be happy until Aaron has his Bar Mitzvah and goes on to become a devout Orthodox Jew. Which would be fine with me, except I WILL NOT make that choice for him. If that’s what he wants, great. If he wants to be the Pope, that’s great too. But it’s not my affair to make him religious. it’s my job to teach him how to be a good person and let the chips fall where they may.

If I were to get him baptized, my MIL would never forgive me. And that’s what I’m getting at. It’s her way or the highway. And I’ve been quite generous enough to her. I can’t back up any more than I already have. She, however, is not willing to make any concessions to me.

Fact is, I’ve already annoyed MY family, since we did everything for the convenience of my MIL. That will not be happening any longer, and it’ll be easier to tell her to bugger off from 1,500 miles away. It’s time for Robin and I to do what WE want to do. That includes being able to take OUR son to wherever we want to without our friggin’ MIL pitching a holy hell fit about how he’s too young this and he’s not happy that.

I am absolutely DYING to get Robin and Aaron out of here. But until then, I’ll pay the money ($200, by the way, which is a BIG chunk of change for me) just to get her off my back. I have just resigned myself to it, so I just consider it a bribe to get her to get off my back and I feel better.

17

Luckily, Tsubaki, I think Dave and Robin (and even Aaron, possibly) will be able to give MIL a big ol’ one-fingered salute if she insists on a bar mitzvah and he (Aaron, of course) doesn’t want it.

Only problem I see is something related to what happened to me … he’ll want to please grandma so much he might go through with it for her sake.

18

I had a religious and somewhat wacky MIL at one time. She about had a cow because we had beer at the reception, and when our son was born, she didn’t like his first name, so she called him Michael (his middle name). THEN she decided she didn’t really like Michael either, so she started calling him MATTHEW.

I feel for you both. Hang in there and mark those days off the calendar with a big happy red pen! Soon you’ll be out of there, and ignoring her will become much easier.

Best,
~karol

19

Well, if it’s any comfort (and I hope Jewish Dopers will correct me if I’m wrong), my understanding is that a boy is bar mitzvah when he hits 13 and is a man according to Jewish religious law. The ceremony–reading from the Torah, “today I am a man,” silver pen and pencil sets–is just a celebration to mark the occasion. But even is there is no party or synagogue ceremony, Aaron will still be bar mitzvah, which is more like being legal to drink at 21 than a Jewish version of First Communion.

20

Just to clarify, my mother is NOT a practicing Jew. What she’s demanded is to keep her own sense of tradition intact. She and my father have quit every synagogue they’ve ever belonged to, don’t attend services of any kind, even High Holy Day services, don’t keep a kosher home, and are about as non-practicing as you can get without converting.

Dave has been remarkably patient with these demands, even though it’s put a strain on his relationship with his own family.

Gotta run, I have to call the rabbi.

Robin