Nope. She was completely honest and upfront about the entire deal, at least so far. She said Sahjahn used to be a very powerful warrior, before he was made incorporeal. Then she told Angel about trapping him in the urn, but said (paraphrasing) “You don’t want that, do you? You want to get your hands on him.” And then she gave him the ritual to make him corporeal.
Or, again, what The Tim said. [sub]Damn you, The Tim[/sub]
When that little girl said that Sahjahn was evil, but “too chaotic”, did anyone else suddenly get the feeling that the writers are cribbing at least a little of the metaphysics for the Buffyverse from D&D? The little girl is a baatezu, Sahjahn is a Tan’ari. Bloodwar, anyone?
No offense, but I don’t think we should spread rumors like that, not even in jest. If this rumor of yours isn’t true, then it could be very damaging to Charisma Carpenter. And even if it is true, who cares?
Don’t know if this has been discussed ad nauseum but I’m getting the distinct feeling that whatever dimension of time/space Connor is in now will cause him to age at an accelerated rate. It’s my guess that he’ll come back as a teenager or adult, probably as a teenage heartthrob…for plot reasons, and of course to lure a younger audience.
Yes, I think that they’ll retrieve Connor as an older kid or young adult. This is a clever way to have Angel be a father without burdening the team with an infant for years. All an infant can do plotwise is be a hostage or target, while an older son can have many more effects. Let’s hope he doesn’t show up with a Dawn-sized chip on his shoulder and matching attitude.
The little girl in the white room: I think she is either one of the mysterious ‘senior partners’ of W&H, or she could be the avatar of one of the Powers That Be. Every pantheon has to have a trickster/god of mischief type, and that may be her role.
Isn’t Justine a great character? She’s a perfect illustration of how messed-up some people are after a life of tragedy. You can see that she wants to be a good guy, but her mind doesn’t know what that is anymore. Her logic is not quite what everyone else’s is.
Could some hardcore Angelmeister please give me the verbatim text of the prophecy? I wasn’t paying close enough attn. Monday and missed out on how they weaseled out of that “the father will kill the son” bit, which everyone is saying they did.
The prophesy that Wes read did actually say ‘The father will kill the son.’ However, that wasn’t how the prophet (whoever that was) wrote it. Sahjahn confessed that after he heard of a prophecy that said, "The one sired by the vampire with a soul will grow to adulthood and kill Sahjahn,’ he went back in time and rewrote it. Thus he could use the false prophecy to make Wes help him eliminate Connor. [I think the quotes are verbatim, but I’m not able to check it. Corrections are most welcome.]
Since the word is ‘sired,’ I agree with The Tim. The bane of Sahjahn will be a vampire sired by Angel, not Connor. But it also says this individual will ‘grow to adulthood.’ Let’s see: The only vampire we know that Angel sired directly is Drusilla. Drusilla is childlike. If she is ever cured of her feeble-mindedness, would that count as becoming an adult? If so, she’s the one Sahjahn should be watching out for.
A father.
The male parent of an animal, especially a domesticated mammal such as a horse.
Archaic. A male ancestor; a forefather.
Archaic. A gentleman of rank.
Archaic. Used as a form of address for a superior, especially a king.
tr.v. sired, sir·ing, sires
To father; beget.
So therefore this does not count Connor out of the prophecy. He is Angel’s offspring so he was sired by Angel.
Yes, but siring in the Angel/Buffy verse also refers to making another person a vampire; as in Angel bit Drusilla, she drank from him and became a vampire, therefore Angel sired Drusilla. Right?
Also in Angel/Buffy there is no grand-sire (to weasel around Spike’s comment to Angel). Therefor anyone in Angel’s family line, as far as we know only Druisilla and Spike (I’m sure he’s made minions before but it seems only Druisilla is a childe to borrow from White Wolf).
The only thing is that it mentions him having a soul. Now this may be to indicate who he is but when he Sired Druisilla he had no soul. What would make him with a soul Sire someone? Maybe revenge. After all he knows the pain of being a vampire with a soul. How better to torture someone who did something unforgivable to you than to make them a vampire and then get someone to put the soul curse on them after they do some hardcore evil.
That of course is a bit of a stretch but you never know.
I know what it means in the buffyverse but still you don’t really know how the prophet meant it. The only real way to know is to watch the new eps and see how it plays out. I’m not sure it said sired I thought it said something like “The child of the vampire with a soul”
Of course I don’t really know. That’s why it’s so much fun to theorize. Actually, I doubt the writers are going to bring in Drusilla to kill Sahjahn. I just pointed out that they cleverly kept from having the prophecy be so specific that they’d have to use Connor.
On the other hand, maybe we’ve seen the last of Sahjahn anyway. I don’t see much benefit (plotwise, for the writers) to ever taking him back out of the jar.
I taped it:D.
I think it pretty obviously refers to Connor, especially with the whole “grow to manhood” thing. It’s very probable that Connor will be back (either by the end of this season or in the next) having grown up in that hell dimension (name slipped my mind). Somehow, I’m doubting that he’ll be all buddy-buddy with his dad, but Sahjahn’ll probably get out of his jar and Connor will fufill the prophecy.
I just realized something that has been bugging me about the episode. Sahjahn pulled the classic James Bond villian goof by letting everyone know what the real prophecy was. Think about it, he’s spend lord knows how many years running around time to hide the actual prophecy and now he blurts it out to a big group of the people he meant to hide it from. Granted, he was just made corpereal and was about to kick Angel’s ass, but he knows Conner might still be alive. It’s the classic villian gambit.
Well, at least they set up Sahjahn spilling the beans by making it clear that the guy is a freaking doofus. I mean, yeah, bad-ass warrior demon, sure, but he’s a moron. So giving away his master plan is perfect for the character, especially because he’s probably not used to his plans succeeding (what with the whole “not very smart ting” he has going) and wanted to brag about it.
Well, from Sahjahn’s perspective, Conner is gone, I mean, really gone. Never to return from that dimension, so he may as well brag a little bit, what’s the harm? Plus, there is the added benefit of the fans finally having a clue what this guys problem is
