Look at me-- Mr. Reply Guy today!
Well anyway- that Jeep Grand Cherokee lookes like the one Wesley was driving in a couple of episodes. Won’t he be pissed. . . .
And of course they drive around: we have seen them in Angel’s black convertible plenty of times (insert well used joke/observation regarding a Vampire who inexplictably drives a convertible here) and also Gunn’s pick-up truck of doom. Hmm, I think I need to watch a little less Angel on reflection. . . 
I have mixed feelings on this episode. I think Angel was a bit too insistent that he wasn’t worthy, and kept waiting for everyone to shave their heads, don orange robes and head off to the airport to hand out leaflets. While I cannot stand Connor because of his inscessant whining, I found I don’t like him any better when he is happy.
Did anyone happen to notice that the little speech Jasmine was making on the morning show interview was exactly to same speech she told the FG. Word for word. Which makes me think that this “being” has a script memorized. Would a genuinely good being say the exact same thing in the exact same way?
And kasuo, remember when the FG went to the Svea home in “Soulless”? Wesley was driving the same Jeep then. Perhaps it is a company car?
As far as the preview, yes, I came off the couch screaming WTF!?
Dude, they were making a connection between Jasmine and the episode. All worshiping the ep(like they did Jasmine), except two(Fredd and the guy).
Took me a second to realize as well.
Okay, now. People need to realize that “filler” is needed in a show to develop it more. This was the perfect example of a filler episode. It was filler, but if we didn’t have it, we’d never get to see how evil Jasmine is. Angel, unlike Buffy this year, has really utilized its filler episodes instead of making them look strained.
Having said that, I still think Buffy will have an amazing final 5 episodes.
%&¤&%¤¤ hamsters ate my post.
Anyway - I think a big clue was when Angel, speaking about Fred’s ‘betrayal’ said: “I thought… she was just being Fred.”
Yes, the ep was a little slowmoving, but I didn’t mind. So many of the recent eps have been actionpacked, I think it was nice that it slowed down.
Even though I hate the character Connor, I have to say that the actor, Vincent Kartheiser, grows on me. He does a good job of portraying an annoying teen, and this ep, with small means, he delivers a dofus teen, and very convincingly at that.
Just wondering if you guys think there was any importance to the name “Jasmine.” The being said she could not name herself and she kept PUSHING the flower, mentioning it over and over…was she angling for the name, Jasmine?
Small thing, just made me wonder.
Also, I was wondering…what was the point of Cordelia bringing Angelus out in the first place? My theory is she wanted Connor (and the team) to kill him so Angel would be out of the picture (knowing that although Connor had issues with his dad, he would probably only kill him if he were Angelus).
I’m thinking we’re going to hear more about that old “father will devour the son” prophecy somehow and the Being was trying to remove Angel from the picture to save herself in the future.
Where did the “Beast” fit into all of this? I mean, was he even needed for Jasmine to be born? I mean, killing off W&H and plunging the world into darkness wasn’t really needed. Jasmine could have gotten Cordy and Connor to screw some other way. Unless Connor isn’t really the father and the “Beast” is.
Hmm I didn’t see that. I obviously am not worthy * runs off to scrub shirt *.
As to your last point, that is what I am hoping too. As they knew when writing them that this is the end, I am hoping the pull out all the stops for the last 5. That means no stupid SITs and horrible Kennedy please!!
As far as the seeing her the way she is thing, I have to vote on her blood being the key. The first guy got run into by the vamp, and if you look, you can see that the vamp scratched him on the chest, drawing blood. Then Fred saying that she washed the shirt until her fingers bled. So both of them had Jasmine’s blood mixed with their blood. Letting them see her for what she really is.
What freaked me out, and I don’t know if it was deliberate, was that Jasmine’s first time outside when she commented on the jasmine was EXACTLY like Drusilla’s first time in the mansion. The dialogue was almost interchageable for a bit.
Also, her discussions about eradicating ALL evil… she was talking about the First Evil! I sort of don’t know what to do with these connections, ya know?
I agree, Zanshin. I believe there is a recurring theme on both Buffy and Angel that mentally ill people can see things others can’t. When Dawn first popped on the scene, she was recognized as different by those who were mentally ill. I think the fact that the dude in the psych ward could see her was an extension of that. The explanation for why Fred at first saw Jasmine as good and then saw her as evil was IMHO that she became so obsessed and upset about cleaning Jasmine’s shirt that she briefly relapsed into her earlier mental illness. I am intrigued about the blood theory though…
Ok, so any theories about why Jasmine’s touch messed up the psych ward guy’s face? And what is he changing into (beside just an ugly guy.)
Um, I think it’s because Jasmine is really a dead, rotting thing, and everything she touches rots- also, IIRC, she touched him over a wound, so maybe some of her rottedness got into his system…
Yeah, I caught that, too. It was kind of eerie. I wonder if this will lead to a connection with a certain bleached-blonde souled vampire we all know and madly lust after…
I guess the blood theory makes much more sense now: I didn’t catch the connection between the guy and the vamp at first, but now that I do, that whole series of events seems too contrived to NOT be somehow responsible for what happened.
And it still looks like ME is playing out loose ends from the entire run of the show. I remember being confused about what the hell was up with Angel’s “trials” way back when… and now we know what that was all about. This is either brilliant writing… or a brilliant way to cover up for bad writing. Either way, pretty cool. Continuity is always good, especially when it was all a set-up.
Here’s my contribution to this discussion:
I’m on board with the “blood” theory of Fred’s immunity, and I think that will be the key to her “cure” of Angel next week. Believing Fred needs to die for Jasmine’s sake, Angel will try to kill Fred the way vampires do best, and…
I like RealityChuck’s question: What if Jasmine is really good after all, but ugly? I don’t think that’s how it will turn out, but it’s quite a point to ponder nonetheless. She really hasn’t done anything evil yet, has she?
Someone wondered why Fred wouldn’t go to Sunnydale to seek Willow’s help. Well, isn’t that something the Fang Gang would expect her to do?
I wonder who’d be playing Jasmine if Firefly had not been cancelled?
I keep thinking of the half-face goddess of hell in Norse mythology. Loki’s daughter, but I can’t remember her name.
After being told by the crazy guy not to trust anyone and then learning the lesson the hard way, I think Fred won’t be running to Sunnydale. For all she knows they are worshiping an image on the television screen as well.
I was freaked out by that scene, because you could see the what-ever-it-is following the same path where her fingers moved on his face. Some make-up technician did a great job on that one.
The Devil’s Grandmother:
Hel.
Hey. Watch your language.
Wasn’t that Gina Torres’ character’s name in Cleopatra 2525?
[busily checks the IMDB ]By golly, you’re right. Her character’s name was ‘Hel’, short for Helen.
I’ve only seen her in Hercules, some Cleopatra (not a regular watcher), and now this. She strikes me as a lady you do not want to mess around with.
I’m sort of hoping that she really is a “good” power that thought it could make things better by showing up on Earth in person, and will only be defeated by proving that it’s mere prescence does more harm than good. Maybe it doesn’t even know what it “really” looks like, which is a side-effect of all the evil necessary to bring it into being.
It’s interesting to note the lengths Jasmine goes to present herself as caring and benevolent. If she’s totally evil, and can make everyone magically worship her, why bother with the fascade? Why not have Gunn and Wesley fight to the death to see who gets to rape Fred? If she’s pretending to be good, then it must be because there are limits to what her charm effect can make people do: telling Angel to kill and eat a child would be so far out of his character that it would break the spell.
Lastly, I agree with the blood-bourn immunity idea. And I’ll bet Fred figures it out and either tricks Angel into biting her, or spikes his blood supply with her own. The later makes better sense, but the former makes better TV.