Shodan’s probably still harping about that Ashcroft prank. He thinks that really proves something.
Comparing Al Franken to either Ann Coulter or Michael Savage is so preposterous that I can’t even begin to formulate a response… but I will formulate one, if anyone truly claims that they are comparable. I’ll happily go out and find representative quotes from all three and lay them out before us. Anyone need me to?
But Al Franken isn’t simply defined as not-as-evil-as-Michael-Savage. While he has strong opinions and a mocking tone, I think he argues his positions persuasively and with well-documented justification. I also don’t think that he falls frequent pray to the all-too-common “ALL republicans this” or “ALL conservatives that”. I’m not saying that he’s never written a single word that is somewhat "spin"y, or that he has never crossed the bounds from satire into, uhh, whatever’s a bit worse than satire. But that’s not his standard M.O. at all.
I read Lies, and he doesn’t go around randomly making blanket statements. He claims that a few individual conservative commentators are liars, and then he backs up those claims. He makes various other claims about Bush, various policies, the war, etc., and he backs up those claims. He spends a bit of time just making fun of the Republican leadership as a whole, but he basically just makes points and supports them.
That`s OK. Whatever makes you happy (for at least five more years).
Andros_X, loved the link! Yet, it was deleted…WTF? Whatever. Listen, if you get a chance, email the link to me…Gotta have it! Couldn’t find it by Googling…
Art
Miller, elucidator, and any other posters/lurkers requesting cites for Al Franken being a liar:
For the record. I think P.J. O’Rourke is hilarious, Al Franken is funny (although I don’t agree with his politics), and I LOVE Ann Coulter. 
I’ve just started a GD thread addressing that website, which didn’t seem to be completely without validity, but which overstated things drastically (imho).
And I don’t even have the energy to properly attack Ann Coulter right now.
Whew. I was actually a little worried that site would have some real evidence of Franken lying about something. Instead it’s just whiny bitching about his opinions and disingenuous hair-splitting. Franken is still unscathed.
Oh, Ann?
Ann, I know you’re reading this, as you read everything the Straight Dope says about you.
What you don’t know, Ann, is that I’m single again. And I’m bitter.
Through miscommunication, no doubt, you have failed to meet me at the places I have designated for you in the past. And I have allowed you to lay fallow, like a loamy field just downrange from the above-ground nuclear testing facility.
That’s okay, because now I’m back and I know you crave to taste my gushing supply of liberal venom.
Meet me at Rhodeside, Ann. Wednesday night, when I can treat you to an endless supply of two-dollar cans of Pabst Blue Ribbon. We’ll fumble through some initial conversation and then… I will satisfy your urge to be “Liberally” filled with new ideas and political positions.
Come to me, Ann. Come.
After I had reviewed the first three claims on that site and doing some quick internet research, I saw little point in continuing on.
So, as MaxTheVool reveals over at his GD thread,I see one out of the 17 listed items that is valid. Not “valid” in that Franken “lied”, but that there is one mistake that was found by the only partisan fact checking of his book that I’m aware of. And judging by the note at the bottom " . . . I do not anticipate posting new content in the near future." That’s likely all there is.
Let’s compare with Coulter, shall we? (since the OP was on her, not Franken.)
This site has a list of 56 items from Coulter’s book, Slander . . . and the list is only from a review of Chapter 2! That’s around 20 pages of Coulter’s embarrassing tome. The site’s author had planned to do the entire book, and since Chapter 1 had already been covered by others he started with the next one. He quickly realized how long it would take to do the entire book so he only did one chapter. You can click on the third button on the right “Fibs and Errors in Slander found by other reviewers” to see what the rest of the book was like and click on “Links” for plenty of outside devastating commentary by others regarding this error-filled piece of “non-fiction” (not surprisingly, the “liberal” New York Times gave the book a positive review).
Coulter is practically unmatched in mendaciousness. Franken doesn’t even come close.
And Linty Fresh, your suggestion that if Al and his “ilk” (exactly who, btw?) just stopped, then so would Ann and the rest, is downright cute. How long was Rush on the air before Franken came around to finally respond to all that BS? Didn’t Ann also enter the scene before Al? Certainly, if you disregard Franken’s first book on Limbaugh, Ann had already made a name for herself as a media pundit long before Franken. An honest response to the venom from the right hasn’t had much effect and neither would a Franken return to obscurity.
I know I speak for other caring, humane Dopers when I call for an intervention before friend Sofa goes…too far.
I know you’re still pretty torn up over that whole Janet Reno thing, Sofa, but you’ve got to get a grip, man! Pull yourself together. Repeat after me: anorexy ain’t sexy! Rabies is for racoon, not poon!
And, Jesus, man! Pabst Blue Ribbon? Are you kidding? You’re not gonna pull any classy tail with that swill, that’s strictly butt-crack plumber suds! You’re gonna need at least a decent California merlot, and a couple of roofies. (The roofies are for you)
Oh. Paper bags. Two, one each. Three, in case there’s any chance of innocent passersby.
Dude, he’s trying to bag Ann Coulter. Pabst is probably too hoity-toity for her. I’d recommend something in a light wood grain, or perhaps a heavy sedative delivered by dart.
I’ll admit it’s not easy to bag Ann Coulter. For example, I cased my intended capture-zone this evening, and turned up nothing but mushrooms. Non-psychedelic ones, at that. But I highly recommend the Portobello sandwich.
That’s okay. She senses my power, and is attracted to it. You can be assured that one or both of us will be drained of our precious bodily fluids. I’m banking that I have more of it on tap than she does. Either way, I’m offering Ann a rejuvenation the likes of which she has not seen since Strom Thurmond was wheeled out to prevent a Senate quorum.
I didn’t check the entire site for errors, but agree that the site is biased against Al Franken and does have some problems. I’ll just as quickly agree that Al Franken is biased against conservative voices such as Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter. This is his right.
I am not willing to simply write the site off for some of the claims it makes. I do believe that some of the statements on the site are legitimate, and Scylla does an excellent job of pointing this out in the Great Debates thread.
Diogenes, Franken is not unscathed just because you say he is. Item #17 on the site is legitimate, and your writing off of the matter doesn’t make it any less so.
#17 is not legitimate.
It’s all a question of spin. The Frankenlies site is simply trying to spin normal wear and tear, the usual stolen paperclips from any staff transition and a couple of mild practical jokes (like strategically hiding some photos of GWB photoshopped to look like a chimp or removing some W’s from some keyboards (keyboards from computers which were to be replaced anyway) into wanton vandalism. The entire vandalism story was an exaggerated concoction by the Bushies from the get-go.
BTW, did you know that Bush Sr.s staff caused the same amount of damage and played the same sort of jokes when Clinton moved in? It’s White House tradition. Bush is just the first to try to politicize it and make himself look like a victim.
I don’t really understand how 2b is considered a lie from Franken’s book when it’s discussing something that wasn’t covered in Franken’s book.
I am also amazed at the humor impairment that would lead anyone to believe that Franken offered as fact the breaking of Helen Thomas’ jaw.
Christ on a cracker, he says in the freaking introduction that he’s mixing facts and humor!
Diogenes,
It appears I am likely mistaken. While I can’t take at face value news reports from a socialist website (not an exactly unbiased account, I think), after doing some research, I can’t find any solid evidence for the extreme vandalism I remember hearing reported.
Still, I can’t give Al a pass for lying in his flier. That’s a lie. It was done in an attempt at parody, but I still say it’s a lie. Your mileage may vary.
When you say “flier” are you talking about the letter he sent about the fictitious “Savin’ It!” book looking for abstinence stories? If so, calling that a lie seems kinda, well, ridiculous. He’s a comedy writer and the letter was a joke. He’s probably told thousands of jokes in his life and the premises of many of them were probably not based 100% in truth. It seems bizarre to respond to the written equivalent of “a guy walks into a bar with a duck on his head” by screaming “Liar! There was no man and no duck! Liar!” which is what the anti-Al site does repeatedly.
Remember: there are WORSE things to wake up to than Ann Coulter in a DC morning…
Well, tonight’s the night.
Ann, you’ll be able to recognize me by my bleeding heart. See you soon!
I think Ann Coulter is seductive, in a black leather and pain sort of way. Her arguments hover between the shrill and nasty to the really mean. She, um, generalizes a lot.
This was, like, five minutes after Kerry became the favorite. I swear, she is an insultamatic.