I don’t think they’re lying. Only that they forget to mention the piece of information which is important for me.
But in a work environment or in business relation, there’s a reasonnable expectation that you will be at least given a rough idea of how long it will take to get in touch with the person or to have the call returned.
Boss : When will it be done?
Me : I don’t know, I miss some piece of information that only Mr X can provide.
Boss : Why don’t you call Mr X, then?
Me : I did
Boss : And he didn’t give you the information you needed?
Me : He wasn’t in.
Boss : And when will you be able to get in touch with him?
Me : I don’t know.
Boss : What? You didn’t ask when he’ll be back?
Me : I did, but I was told “I don’t know”
Boss : But surely, they told you, roughly, when they expect him to be back?
Me: I didn’t ask. It would have been rude to ask for more informations after I was told “I don’t know”. Surely, they truly had no clue whether he was killed in a car accident this morning or was in someone else’s office for a dozen minutes. Or else, they wouldn’t have answered “I don’t know”.
Boss : Indeed. You’re right. What are we going to do, then?
Me : I thought about that. We can go without the datas Mr X was supposed to provide, but it will take some time. We’ll have to reschedule everything we planned though. Meanwhile, I’ll have someone call Mr X every half an hour until we can get in touch or until it’s finished.
Boss : How much is it going to cost us in case you can’t get in touch with Mr X during, say, the next two weeks and we have to redo everything from scratch?
Me : I don’t know.
Boss : And how long will it take?
Me : I don’t know, either.
Boss : But…
Me : Yes?
Boss : Err… No, nothing, don’t worry.
Boss: Anyway, at least you weren’t rude by insisting when told “I don’t know”. Would you believe that last year, in the same situation, some moron asked whether Mr X would be back on the same day? We fired him, of course. We don’t need bad PR.
Boss : Our customers are going to be pissed off by the delay. They’re going to wonder when it will be done. Fortunately I can just tell them “I don’t know”.They’ll undertstand.
Me : By the way, when will I get my raise?
Boss : I don’t know.
Oh, the twenty questions thing just drives me nuts. One of the specialty clients will call at 11:30 on a Saturday night with concerns about their dog with [insert bizarre, rare disease here]. I tell them that if they feel the dog is in distress, they need to come in so we can stabilize the dog. Their doctor is not on call tonight, but if their dog needs more specialized care tonight than we can provide, we will call in the on-call doctor in that department. Then the game starts.
client: But I just want to ask Dr. A some questions. Can you have him call me?
me: He’s not on call tonight; it’s his weekend off. I can page him, but since it’s his night off, he might not have the pager on. If he does call me back, I’ll pass along your number, but I can’t guarantee that he’ll call me back.
C: So you’re going to have him call me?
M: I’m going to attempt to contact him for you, but since it’s his weekend off, I might not be able to get hold of him.
C: When will he call me?
M: I don’t know if or when he’ll call me so I can pass your message along. As I said, he may very well have his pager turned off, since he’s not on call. If you think your dog is in distress, you need to come in, regardless of whether or not he calls either of us.
C: How fast will he answer his pager?
M: When he is on call, he typically responds to pages within two to five minutes. When he’s not on call, it depends on whether or not he’s got his pager on, and what he’s doing at the moment. Since tonight is his night off and he’s not on call, I don’t know if he’s even got the pager on to get the page.
C: So when can I expect to hear from him?
M: If he has his pager off for the weekend and doesn’t get the message until Monday, he will call you then. If at any point you feel like Muffy can’t or shouldn’t wait until Monday, you need to come on in so we can see what’s going on with her and potentially call in one of the other doctors in that department.
I have this exact frigging conversation at least once a month. I could potentially see someone who was totally clueless about all things not thoroughly grasping the implications of “he’s not the doctor on call,” but how do you not understand “it is his day off”?
Why do you keep bringing up things I already mentioned? We’re going in circles. As I asked several times now, do you really think, if I KNEW FOR A FACT that the boss is out for the rest of the day, that THAT WOULDN’T BE THE FIRST THING I WOULD HAVE TOLD THE CLIENT? And if I were deliberately withholding that information, what on Earth would make him think I would suddenly decide not to withhold the information just because he asked me again?
Believe me, if my boss is on vacation, or gone for the day, or at a month-long conference, I don’t waste any time telling the client right off the bat. This isn’t 20-fucking-questions, you know.
[QUOTE=grienspace]
I met a blowero today.
I met a grienspace today. This is what he said:
“I’m grienspace. I am a complete moron. I will now say ‘I met a blowero’, and proceed to relate a story that is completely dissimilar to what blowero said.”
Nice job - jackass.
I understand that you have your expectations, but again, if you ask the question, and the answer is “I don’t know”, then you need to accept that the person doesn’t know. If the person you’re doing business with is not meeting your expectations, then the solution is to stop doing business with him, not keep demanding answers from people when they already said they don’t know.
Ok, now I’m confused. In the OP, you use as an example the fact that the dumb motherfucking caller asks for clarification that the boss will, in fact, be back to the office that day as proof of horribleness.
I, for one, have tried to point out that 1) asking if your boss will return is completely reasonable, and 2) it is kind of odd that you wouldn’t know whether or not he would be back at some point, forget knowing exactly when.
Now, your saying you would have told the DMC that he was gone for the day if you knew that was the case.
So, are you saying that there are days when your boss leaves to run an errand and never comes back for the day?
I appreciate the understanding, but you’re conflating my two examples. Let me try this again.
In the first example, I said “He’s out running errands, but I don’t know how long it will take.” Frankly, I’m flabbergasted that this statement is not self-explanatory. Who are all these people who think “out running errands” might mean “gone for the day”? and “I don’t know what time he’ll be back” might mean “I don’t know what DAY he’ll be back?” If he’s out running errands, it seems clear to me that he’s not gone for the day, or that if he is gone for the day, it would be completely out of my expectation.
In the second example (which is sort of a composite, not an actual verbatim conversation), I TOLD the client that I expected him back in the afternoon, and the client CONTINUED to grill me.
Please, please, please - you need to understand that if the phrase “He won’t be back until tomorrow” is at all appropriate, I WILL use that phrase. I understand that people believe receptionists are often lying or deliberately misleading, but if they are, why would they stop just because you grilled them?
I mean, don’t people possess any common sense any more? If you go to a store, and the owner has put a sign in the window that says, “Out to lunch”, do you stand there scratching your head, wondering how many weeks it will be 'til he returns?
Well the problem is that you’re completely over-reacting. It’s not like I yelled at the guy or refused to answer him; I was in fact quite polite and answered all his questions. I just thought it should have been obvious that “out running errands” does not mean “gone for the day”, “gone for the week”, or “gone for the months”. I didn’t call anyone a “dumb motherfucker”; why does everyone have to spaz out like this in these threads?
I DID expect him back that day, and I felt that should have already been obvious from what I said.
Actually, yeah - he has done that before.
I’ve come to the conclusion that you haven’t been in the business world for very long. If you have more than five years under your belt, I’ll be shocked.
See, your arguments seem to be based on the fact that callers should assume certain things, because of certain other things. A lot of people in business just don’t go around assuming things. Doing so can have really, really bad consequences.
And, frankly, I’m flabbergasted that you are so stuck on your point that you can’t seem to appreciate the other points of view being expressed here. From what you’ve written, you could stand to be enlightened a bit.
p.s. On preview I see that you’re downplaying your angst again. Your use of capitals and language has lead me to believe that you are wound up about this. Thus, I thought I was reacting to a spaz, not being a spaz. Sorry.
My boss, for various and sundry reasons, does not work Fridays or Monday afternoons. This policy has been in effect all semester. There’s one woman my boss meets with once a week. She’s a student here. I’m not sure why she always needs to speak with my boss, but she calls every Monday afternoon.
Her: Hi, is Bailey there?
Me: No, she’s left for the day.
Her: When will she be back.
Me: Tomorrow morning, she left for the day.
Her: Wait, she’s gone?
Me: Yes.
Her: Why?
Me: She doesn’t work on Monday afternoons.
Her: But why?
Me: Would you like to leave a message for her?
Her: No, I need to talk to her.
Me: I’m sorry, she’s not in right now. You can talk to her tomorrow morning.
Her: Can I call her at home?
Me: I cannot give out personal information.
Her: sigh Fine. Thanks.
It’s the same woman and the same conversation every week. She makes me think I’ve walked into the Twilight Zone.
That’s great that you give all information you have right up front. However, not everyone who answers phones does. I have no way of knowing what your general practices are when I call you. So when you say “I don’t know,” I would probably ask a follow up question. It doesn’t mean I think I think you’re lying or stupid, and it doesn’t mean I don’t respect you.
For example, our administrative assistants are really good. We’re darn lucky to have them. However, they aren’t always the best at taking our calls. The reason is they don’t do it all that much. If you call me and I don’t answer, you’ll get my voicemail (which should tell you if I’m out of the office for the rest of the day unless it’s broken). You only get my admin if you hit 0# and very, very few callers choose to do that. So answering calls really isn’t a big part of our admins’ jobs. They answer maybe one call of mine every other week or so.
As a result, if you were to call me and hear “MaddyStrut is out running errands” it could mean
- I ran downstairs for a cup of coffee and will be back in a few minutes.
- I went to the bank and will be back in an hour or so.
- I’m at the DMV, will probably be out several hours, and may not return at all until tomorrow.
I’d like to say my admin would do what you do and give out the information right up front. However, I can’t guarantee it. You may hear only “I don’t know, she’s running errands” in each of those three situations. In fact, I can’t even guarantee that you’re talking to my admin. If she’s away from her desk, your call will go to one of the other admins. Sure, it would be great if they said “I’m not MaddyStrut’s regular admin, but I can have that person call you back.” However, I can’t guarantee that either. As I said, we have great admins. It’s just that we’re expected to handle our own calls and schedules, so they aren’t really strong in that area.
I do know some callers are pushy and take “MaddyStrut isn’t expected back today” to mean “MaddyStrut isn’t supposed to be back today–but if you bug me enough, I’ll get her back earlier.” Most of the people who choose to talk to our admins rather than leaving a voicemail are sales calls, and they are downright obnoxious! That may be another reason our admins aren’t all that helpful to callers. They don’t answer enough calls to learn how to weed out obnoxious people trying to sell stuff we don’t need.
So if I were to call you, hear you say “I don’t know, he’s running errands,” I would probably ask “do you think I could reach him later today or should I try again tomorrow.” As I said earlier, it doesn’t mean I think you’re lying or that I don’t respect you. It only means I don’t know you or that you give out important information whenever you can.
Can’t be said enough times.
When you say “I don’t know,” they’re going to hear “I don’t care.”
Nobody calls up a place of business to leave a message about how happy they are with the results they have gotten. It’s aways because they have a problem that needs to be addressed. And it’s not a good idea to let someone think that you’re saying you don’t care about his problem.
Because if I knew you personally I may well know that you will give me all the information you can as soon as you can. However, I don’t know you at all, not even a little bit. When you say “he’s running errands”, I do assume that he will be back later in the day, but as you have not told me this specifically and as some other receptionists I’ve talked to have unwittingly not provided information even though they did have it, I clarify that my understanding of the situation is the same as yours. So, I say “he will be back today though?”.
Is that so hard to understand?
Another thing, I’m not thinking you are “deliberately witholding information” only that there may be information that you do have and haven’t told me because you don’t know that it will be useful to me.
Shit, I get calls everyday at my home from people wanting the police station. It happens that the station changed its numbers just before I arrived here and I ended up with one of the old station numbers as my home number. It often takes quite sometime for it to sink in to the caller that they’ve rung a private residence with absolutely no attachment to the police. Often they persist by asking me to “put them through” to the station or telling me what foul play has befallen them and expecting me to help. What do I do? I rephrase my polite “you have the wrong number, this is a private residence” in different ways until they get it.
The point is that no matter HOW CLEAR you think you may be with your answer, it is quite likely that it is not AS CLEAR to the other person mainly because they have different experiences and expectations.
Your “sky blue” is not my “sky blue” because you live in a crisp, clear, mountainous region untouched by smog and I live near the equator in a region prone to fires and smoke.
Your “I’ll see you at 7:00pm for dinner” is not the same as mine because you are always early or on time to casual events but all my friends and I are always up to an hour “fashionably” late (and it doesn’t occur to me that some people like to be on time).
Your “out running errands” is probably the same as mine, but previous experience suggests that some people run errands all afternoon and then go straight home, so I want a little clarification.
“He will be back today?”
YUP. Sorry but for a lot of people it really IS the phrasing. It’s just something about the way it sounds.
I know that it might not make sense, and might be dumb and wrong and all that. But I’ll bet you that if you replaced “I don’t know” with an equivelant business-speak translation for “I don’t know” that you wouldn’t find near the “twenty questions” that you’re getting now.
So why am I not allowed to be annoyed that such is the state of affairs?
Also, I don’t understand how one can “unwittingly” not provide the information that a person is gone for the day. Seems to me you’d pretty much have to know that’s what you’re doing.
And I have come to the conclusion that you are a 12-year old using your daddy’s computer. If you are 13, I’ll be shocked.
If you were more than 12 years old, you’d realize that grownups possess at least a modicum of common sense. So yes, we assume that “out running errands” does not mean “gone for a month”. People assume things all the time, and the world does not stop revolving on its axis.
I appreciate them, but I also disagree with them. Yours, however, I do not appreciate, because you are doing nothing but being a snippy, condescending little bitch.
I’ll try to keep that in mind. :rolleyes:
Oh, yeah - I used capitals. Look out, blowero’s gonna go postal on us. :wally
If you actually read what I wrote, you’d see that I said: "It’s not like I yelled at the guy or refused to answer him; I was in fact quite polite and answered all his questions. " And you’d realize that whether I used capitals in a harmless pit thread actually has absolutely nothing to do with that statement.
I’m open to suggestions.
Scenario: Your boss left the office, saying “I’m going to run some errands now. See you later.” You know that it might take him anywhere from 30 minutes to 5 hours, with an extremely remote possibility that he won’t even be back for the rest of the day. A client calls, and asks if the boss is available. What would you say? How would you convey this information to the client, presumably without indicating the fact that you don’t know what time the boss will be back. Give it your best shot - I’m listening. What’s your “equivalent business-speak” translation?
Again, if (a) were the case, then I would know how long he would be gone, and it would be a lie to say "I don’t know. If (b) were the case, I would have said "He has an important meeting scheduled for 3:00, rather than “he’s running errands.” As for (c) I don’t think that a reasonable person could infer (c) from “he’s out running errands”. And if (d) were the case, then I would say “I don’t know where he is”, and anyway, there would be no additional info to be gained by grilling me, would there?
I understand that you and several others here do not have a reasonable expectation of being able to communicate with others in English with a modicum of common-sense, and therefore never assume you can take the statements of others at face-value, but rather assume there is some hidden meaning. To me, if I have to spell out that no, he didn’t go to the far end of the state, and he’s not on vacation, and he’s not at a week-long conference, merely to convey the simple idea that he’s out running errands, it causes me to be somewhat annoyed. YMMV.
Well, I’m with you. I understand you really don’t know, but I also get that people seem to confounded by that phrase. Why? I have no idea.
However, I do tend to avoid using the phrase myself when in that situation. Somehow, it makes me feel stupid saying it. Instead I’d probably go for some light humor that essentially gets the same message across with sounding ignorant.
Using the above scenario:
Caller: Can I speak with BossPerson?
Me: S/he’s away from the office at the moment. This is LowlyPeon. Is there anything I can help you with?
Caller: Do you know when BossPerson will be back?
Me: No. But I’m pretty certain I’ll be seeing BP tomorrow. Would you like to leave a message?
Caller: Do you know where BossPerson is?
Me: Yes. Out of the office. But BP’s desk is still here. Shall I leave a message from you on it?
Caller: Oh, well, yes. I’d like to leave a message.
Me: Excellent idea. I’ll make certain BP knows you’ve called…
[Take message or transfer to voicemail]
Yes, it’s annoying. Yes, it’s repetetive. But I think sometimes you just have to reinforce the goal here. People sometimes get derailed when their expectations are not met. You can’t help that. Just keep reminding them all is not lost. There are fallback options.
I also make it a point to not share what my boss is doing unless specifically instructed to do so. I really don’t think it’s pertinent unless it’s my boss’s boss. If s/he want’s to tell them where they were when the call is returned, that’s his/her perogative. It’s not my place. Therefore, I don’t really even need to know exactly where/what. The only thing I’d prefer to know is when I can expect boss back, if at all possible. If not, c’est la vie. Not the babysitter.
YMMV, yada yada.