Another extended question about extended family relations

In My Humble Opinion
1

My wife has a sister “Debbie” who is - in our opinion - nuts. Totally self centered, dishonest, vindictive. The kind of person who has legal judgments against her in multiple states, but maintains she has never done anything wrong and is continually the victim. Tried to hit her other sister’s husband with her car… We were glad when she moved several thousand miles away from where we live. I and my wife would be very happy to never see or hear from her again.

Debbie’s been married and divorced a couple of times, and has 3 kids - I’d guess between ages 12-18. I am not sure I have ever seen the youngest kid, and wouldn’t recognize any of them on the street.

A month or so ago Debbie announced that she was coming to town next week for some professional licensing or continuing ed thing. She is bringing her kids, and wanted them to be able to meet our teenaged kids - their 1st cousins. While we didn’t really want to see the mom, we asked our kids if they wanted to meet their cousins. They said okay, tho they weren’t thrilled - didn’t really see the point of meeting someone they might never see again. We figured this might be the only chance our kids may have for years to see these blood relations. And just because we very much dislike their mom, we didn’t want to visit the sins of the parents upon the children.

So we were going to meet at grandma’s next Friday for a couple of hours for pizza. At the time it was unclear whether Debbie would be there.

Yesterday my wife had an unusual e-mail exchange with Debbie. Debbie asked my wife if she had any contact info for one of Debbie’s old college classmates. My wife had never heard of the person, and simply replied that Debbie might wish to check out the college’s website to see what resources they offer. Seriously - three short sentences totalling less than 2 lines.

Debbie responded with one of her classic rambling psychotic messages of how she cannot stand the abuse she constantly gets from my wife (who never initiates contact with Debbie), she is going to set her computer to block any e-mails from my wife, bringing up 25-year-old accusations, attributing to my wife actions clearly done by their third sister, etc. And concluding by saying she just couldn’t bear to be at grandma’s next week, and just asking that my wife try to act “humanly” towards her children.

Sorry this is so long, but our question is now - do we go through with this thing or don’t we? As before, the cousins are not responsible for their mom’s insanity. And I can imagine they would be confused and hurt if they travelled several thousand miles and their 1st cousins were unwilling to travel 10 miles to see them. On the other hand, I see this meeting as fraught with potential hazards. Debbie could turn whatever we say or do against us as accusations that we were trying to brainwash her kids, or who knows what else. And should Debbie be there, well, it would be unpleasant even if fireworks did not erupt. I guess I’m a chicken in that I generally choose to absent myself from situations I expect may be unpleasant. And as a general matter, I’d prefer to not go out of my way to unnecessarily expose my kids to unpleastness.

We feel as if we are damned if we do, and damned if we don’t. We showed the most recent e-mails to my kids. My 17-yr-old son says he doesn’t want to go after Debbie has been so rude and mean to his mom. My 15-yr-old daughter says she’d just as soon make a brief appearance. Of course, my 19-yr-old is not coming back from college for this potential fiasco.

Thoughts?

2

How about dropping your kids off for the pizza party and you guys can go have dinner?

3

Your kids are old enough to separate the parent from the child. The kids (your wife’s nieces and nephews) probably would love to meet some non-nuts family. Being there for the offspring of nuts siblings is a family responsibility.

makes note to call niece, who’s going to college 15 minutes away, soon

4

Agree with twickster.

I suggest you have a plan with your wife for how to handle a truly massive Debbie meltdown. Said another way, decide together now how much nuttiness is too much & agree that you’ll take your kids & depart if/when the threshold is crossed.

I have a difficult inlaw (nowhere near a Debbie), and a lot of the problems get a LOT worse when she can insert herself between a couple, where one is saying, “I’ve had enough” and the other is saying “Oh, we only see her once a year, let’s stay.” She really REALLY enjoys setting up that situation to “prove” that somebody has it in for her. Don’t let Debbie do that to you (or your kids.)

5

I guess our concern is sort of different than whether our kids can handle this. Frankly, my kids just aren’t all that interested in meeting some cousins they may or may not ever meet again. But we sorta feel there is an obligation owed family - at least until that family screws you over a certain number of times.

You may not remember from past posts that my wife’s family is - uh - kinda troubled. Her dad was a bigamist and is a pathological liar control freak, and her mom was an alcoholic (now 10 years sober but ditzy as hell). So there is a whole thing going on with half siblings, loyalty contests, and continual accusations of who did what wrong to who. For the past while we have had little to do with any of them other than my wife’s mom and her one sister who lives locally.

In fact, next Thursday the out-of-town cousins will be meeting with the FIL, his other wife, and their kids and grandkids. Tho we and the other sister’s family were invited to that, we declined.

Generally we just figure we will do what we think right, and not worry about who says what about it later. But we know that there WILL be conversation over whatever we do, which could lead to all kinds of unpleasant communications who knows how many years down the line.

My preference - and I suspect my wife’s and kids’ - would probably be to skip the gathering and go out for pizza and maybe a movie by ourselves. But we are wondering if some minimal effort isn’t the “right” thing to do. And - all things considered - we would like to make some minimal effort if that would reduce the likelihood of reciminations later on down the line. But the problem is, we figure we will be criticized if we do not go, and we anticipate any number of instances under which we could be criticized for whatever we do or say should we go.

And here’s the petty little kicker. My kids said they’d go if for no other reason to have some 'za. But yesterday MIL said the folks were planning on having pizza on Thursday, so she didn’t want to have the out-of-towners served pizza 2 days in a row. So we don’t even get the opportunity to gorge on 'za outta the deal! :smiley:

6

Good advice, LSL.
As of yesterday evening, my stated preference was that we say we only have a limited time to be there - 2 hours max, maybe less. And if anything the slightest bit uncomfortable arises, to simply say, “Well, gotta run. Nice meeting you cousins.” And hit the door flying.
Just sucks when you have to approach what should be a pleasant family situation with a battleplan!
And it sucks for my wife, because it is easier for me to simply make up my mind regarding this, that Debbie and FIL are toxic individuals best avoided at all costs. And sorry for the cousins, but they are too close to one of those toxic individuals for me to risk any kind of a relationship with them.
But for my wife, when you get so much grief from what are supposed to be your loved ones for so long, it is hard to not take some portion of the accusations and unpleasantness to heart, and to wonder if you should be doing more to improve the situation.

7

It’s hard, isn’t it? On the one hand, you do want to enourage family relations and want your kids to know their relatives, and the possibly utterly innocent cousins to know that there are a handful of normal people in their family. (I presume I’m correct on that last one. :slight_smile: )

On the other hand, these cousins are almost like no relatives at all, given that you’re unlikely to see them ever again, and given that they have most likely been poisoned already. Although maybe they know what their mother is?

When I was a kid, we had to go to various relatives’ houses at various times. Some of those people I’ve never seen again (mostly my dad’s relatives). But overall, I suppose the knowing is better than the not knowing.

So (if we’re voting), I vote go, set a time limit, and reward with pizza at home afterwards. And recognize that just by being aware and admitting that the relatives are nuts, you’re doing right by your wife and kids.

8

This is my vote, too. And I strongly suggest that you stay with your kids the whole time, so there will be witnesses should any accusations follow (it sounds terrible to write that, I know, but from what you’ve described, Debbie is a nutcase who would not be above accusing your kids of beating her kids or something outrageous like that).

9

I think it is a foregone certainty that whatever you do ‘Debbie’ will twist it.

Reading this, I feel rather sorry for her kids.

I don’t see much of my cousins and their kids, but I’ve noticed that when I do meet them, I really like most of them. It makes me wonder whether blood is thicker than water.

There is a possibility that you and your kids will really like them.
Having a planned escape route is a really good idea, I would also suggest some ‘codewords’.

10

Word. I have a whacked out bro with a kid, and the kid is just a sweet guy caught up in a control freak born again nutcase household. You just might accumulate some good karma :cool:

11

Thanks, guys. You are really putting into words a lot of what my wife and I have been feeling. I do feel sorry for Debbie’s kids, but my sympathy isn’t such that I am willing to expose myself and my kids to unnecessary unpleasantness.

Even to the extent we feel a desire to show these cousins that they have non-insane relatives, we don’t know that they will be receptive to any overtures because we do not know what their mom has told them about us. And she is not the kind of person to keep her feelings to herself. And whatever pleasantries we extend to her kids, we anticipate her to spin them as tho we are trying to “brainwash” her kids and turn them against her.

I think what I find the most unsettling is that I feel there is no guarantee that generally accepted rules of polite interaction will apply. Generally you can figure that the worst you will encounter in interpersonal interaction will be a lack of civility. But that is kinda the BEST you hope for when dealing with someone who tried to hit someone in a car… :rolleyes:

12

Kids can be pretty smart

  • you might find that your nephews and niece(s) are pretty “Debbie” wise.

China Guy said ‘good Karma’

  • he means that you might help the kids
  • personally I think that you have a form of social obligation to check out their situation

It might be good for you and your family

13

Well today’s the big day, and its snowing like a muthafuckah.
Could we be lucky enough that the event will be cancelled?

Heaven forbid that Debbie’s meetings get cancelled and she would have to come back in town at anytime in the near (or remote) future.

My wife is baking some of her famous brownies - a double batch.
If it turns out we are unable to make it to MIL’s tonight, I guess I’ll just have to do my best to finish them off.

14

bump for an update…

15

Actually it went very well.
The kids are really nice, normal kids. Things were a little awkward at first, but later lots of laughing - stupid jokes and such.
Situation was a bit odd - apparently just before we got there they had learned that their paternal grandfather had died (long, effed up story). So while the kids didn’t seem too upset by it (don’t know how much of a relationship they had with him), MIL was even ditzier than ever.
My biggest problem was that I was exhausted from shovelling a big snow dump that a.m., but my family says I didn’t show it. We got there around 6, and had planned on looking to each other about leaving by 8, with 9 the drop dead time. But at 8 everyone was having a good time, so we didn’t get going.
Then Debbie showed up at about 8:30, and it would have been uncomfortable to just bolt immediately. She was not especially offensive - other than just being essentially an unpleasant person.
But my wife got to see her nieces and nephews, and my kids their cousins. And we avoided coming across as the big family grinches. So I’m putting it down as a big old success.
Thanks for helping me think things out ahead of time, guys. It really helped.