Of course it depends on the child and the severity and timing of the punishment. But the idea that a well timed and well deserved slap on the back of the head for being stupid could only ever be “abusive” and counter-productive is patently false–and for some kids and some cases, it may be the only method of training that will actually get him to look at himself objectively. Throwing out that option out simply for PCness and letting your kid end up like Anthony Jr., I feel, is something to be argued against.
Certainly it might not be the solution for this case–but like everything, the more tools you have to work with and the better your understanding of them and when and where to use them, the better a job you can do and the more situations you can handle.
::: Rick gets down on his knees and thanks OG for his two kids:::
I can suggest a few things NOT to do
- You took his CDs, playeres, video games, and TV away. Good call. I assume that you gave him a time when they will be returned (Next week, Next Tuesday whatever) Do not return them early. If if he acts like a little angel, don’t cave in, or he will play you like a violin from here on out if you do.
- Don’t chew him out in public. Ass chewings are private. Praise is done in public.
- Don’t react to his drama queen act. If you can grade his act as aruvqan suggested do so. If you can point and laugh like a fool, telling him how silly he looks, I flat guarrentee he will stop on the spot. He may get real sullen, but the open rebellion will be over. When he gets to the sullen point, ask him if he is ready to listen. If he answers yes, explain that he has to fix his fuck up, and it was not his sister’s fault that he was acting like a 3 year old. If he says he is not ready to talk, send him to his room until his father gets home, and then he can assist his father in getting the swing down.
You have the power, use it.
It has nothing to do with PCness (this is getting a tired cliche BTW), but everything to do with the male adolescent psyche.
Wacking a boy of this age will only make him hate you more (temporarily) in 9 out of 10 cases.
When kids get in this state there is no rationality.
Slapping them doesn’t make them calm down, it just feeds their belief that their parents are crazed-out control freaks, who are just there to make his life hell.
Do you advocate smacking a kid just because they’re acting stupid? (As opposed to being defiant, disrespectful, etc.) I’m really curious. Because my dad did that, and all it accomplished was to make all his kids hate his guts.
Also, you seem to be putting words into my mouth. I never said that all corporal punishment was “abusive.” I simply noted that if you’re leaving marks on your kids, it is. That’s not my definition–it’s the definition that’s used by people who are required to report child abuse to the authorities.
I have a few unrelated comments, but first the caveat: I am (to date) childless. However, Mom was a well respected child psychologist and family therapist and I spent many years at the dinner table hearing (confidentially sanitized) accounts of various problems that occur in families. I also spend a lot of time with kids, have a sister who is 24 years younger, and my fiancee and I routinely care for the children of our friends on vacation etc.
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Several respondents argue whether this behavious is ‘normal’ and therefore whether or not you should seek professional help in the form of a family therapist or child psychologist. Of course, I am biased, but I would highly recommend doing so. Professionals are there not just to help ‘abnormal’ or ‘bad’ or ‘problem’ kids. They are there to provide, helpful, trained guidance and advise to ‘normal, healthy’ families as well. I trust that we are now beyond calling all people who find psychotherapy ‘sick’ or ‘insane’.
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I find Dung Beetle’s comment regarding the sister as good place to start highly perceptive .
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With regard to corporal punishment. Contrary to what you might imagine, not all child rearing professionals are against it. A ‘last resort’ loving swat on the rear can indeed be useful, particularly in its shock value to very young children who have lost control of themselves in a tantrum. HOWEVER: years of research repeatedly shows that children who are hit by parents as a ‘last resort’ learn precisely that hitting is what you do when you run out of other options or arguments. And kids run out of options much faster than adults. So, by hitting your child you are very likely to raise a child who hits as well, particularly when frustrated.
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A general note on an issue which I find obliquely touched upon in the thread: There is a huge difference between explanation and negotiation. It is absolutely the childs right to know, and your responsibility to explain clearly what behavious is unnacceptable and why (though the heat of the moment may not always be the best time
). However, in now way should this turn into a negotiation. Let the child ask one clarifying question, explain and let it alone. The business about ‘it’s not legal!’ smacks of trying to drag you into a debate or negotiation. Inappropriate. You are in charge. Your rules are the rules of the game. Period.
I advocate that allowing a kid to get away with being stupid is unhealthy. What the solution is will depend on the kid, timing, stupidness, etc. and could be anything from nothing to a four hour discussion to giving a bit of a thwomp.
That was you at that time. shrugs
I haven’t said anything other than not to toss out the idea that punishment can be a viable teaching tool in instances. So unless you think that all punishment is abusive or that CP is the end-all-be-all of bad behaviour–I see no reason why anyone should argue against what I’m saying.
And yes, leaving marks is abuse regardless of the child or situation.
A good article on the topic which states my position much better than I want to here (not GD after all.) Well…minus the Christian stuff–it’s just the first thing that came up on a google that seemed well written and is not dealing with bondage.
I remember when I was thirteen, and having lots and lots of emotional problems: the combination of my parents’ recent separation and my entering adolescence just threw me completely out of sorts for long periods. There were plenty of times where I found family drama to be completely overwhelming, and I had to get away from it or else lose control entirely. One weekend when my dad was out of town, I went over to his house for an afternoon (my mother refused to let me stay by myself overnight there), and I left a note on the door for her telling her that if she waited for me, I’d stay all night in the woods, but I’d prefer to spend the night in his house by myself.
She respected my wishes and let me stay there all night, and I was able to reach an epiphany that made the next several months of my life much easier and more civilized. I simply needed time in my own head, almost more than I’ve ever needed it before or since.
I don’t accept that a kid’s wandering off to cool down for a little while presents a serious risk that he’ll be snatched up by some weirdo. Weirdos are highly overrated. There’s precious few of them out there, and a kid wandering off for half an hour or so is pretty unlikely to be kidnapped. It may have been better, under the circumstances, to have let him go and cool off for a bit; when he came home, he may have been much more civilized and ready to make amends.
This doesn’t mean he’d not be in trouble: certainly he’d been acting like a jerk, and he needed to get called on it. But it’ll be very hard for him to see what a jerk he’s being if he doesn’t have the space to think about things.
Daniel