Any WWE fans in the audience? (Part 1)

The Game Room
2842

Just finished watching the replay (Working graveyard on PPV nights sucks - I’m asleep while the show airs, and then I have to force myself not to visit wrestling sites on my phone during my breaks at work, and then watch the PPV while forcing myself not to go on any boards or Twitter to avoid spoilers, but I digress), and I’m gonna have to disagree with Sir T-Cups - this was a much better show than Summerslam in so many ways, and really one of the better main roster PPVs that I’ve seen in some time.

Every single match on this card had great psychology, great selling, and a story that went from beginning to middle to end, as opposed to the booking we’ve gotten used to where 95% of the match doesn’t matter. (The only real exception was the tag titles match, which again proved my “heels only have to lose their title if they decide they want to” point from earlier.) I found this show extremely satisfying, even the matches where I was wrong about who I thought would win. WWE gets a lot of crap for its talent not selling hard enough, but there was a lot of selling in this show - the IC title match was all about Owens working Ryback’s shoulder, the ladies’ match was all about Nikki (who came off a lot more technically proficient here than I’ve seen from her before) working Charlotte’s leg, etc.

Braun Strowman came out looking a lot like Big Show at the very beginning of his career in WCW - an unstoppable beast, and the ending of the match sets up some interesting plot threads. Owens has an opportunity to do something with the IC title besides float around in the midcard forever, and the timing is just about right to have Sami Zayn return from injury and come to main roster to feud with him over it. We have babyface Demon Kane back and we finally got the payoff on his months-long quarrel with Rollins, and the seeds are set for a great card at HIAC, which, if they’re smart, will look something like this;

Brock vs. 'Taker in HIAC (which they’ve already announced)
Rollins vs. Kane for the title
Owens vs. Ryback rematch
New Day vs. Dudleyz tables match
Ambrose vs. Jericho
Reigns vs. Strowman
Charlotte vs. Nikki rematch
Cena vs… someone? for the US title

Overall, I don’t really have any major complaints about this show. Even JBL’s heel commentary was less insipid than usual.

I’m reading that Sting has suffered a legit neck injury that may be career-ending. Sad if true, but at his age it’s hardly out of nowhere.

2843

Dunno. I think they would have had Sheamus and Kane lined up to do the almost cash-in regardless of who won. I think I remember Seth saying in an interview he didn’t know he was going to do the cash-in at WM until that day. Sometimes they have to make last-second decisions when things go tits up. I’m guessing they planned for Kane’s return. Otherwise, he would have had about 3 minutes notice to get his Demon Kane gear on.

2844

I’ve read that the decision was made 1-2 days before 'Mania, but I can believe him not finding out until the day itself. It was definitely a late decision based on how much face heat Brock got after he decided to re-sign with WWE instead of going back to real fighting.

2845

Yeah, I have to also disagree with criticism of the PPV, it was way better than SummerSlam and probably one of the strongest top to bottom WWE PPVs I’ve seen in ages. I can think of a few in the past couple years with some better matches, but often those were matches that stood out on cards that overall were pretty weak.

The only match I basically didn’t care about at all or think was anything special was Ziggler vs Rusev.

The six-man tag in the preliminary was well worked, and it was cool to see the heel team win since I like Cody and want to see Ascension get used more. The KO v Ryback match wasn’t spectacular, but it was decent. Ryback with his size and obviously being a roider he gets blown up easy and isn’t prone to working long, great matches, and I echo the sentiment that KO is just a solid journeyman pro wrestler, not the second coming. That being said given the limitations of Ryback we got a decent match and the IC belt on someone that can take it places and help it along the path to relevance WWE has been trying to put it on for half a year or more now.

The Tag Championship match I actually think was really good. And I gotta say this–I’m officially impressed with New Day. Why? Because they are annoying as fuck, they’ve really done a great job establishing themselves as a heel tag team people just hate, and that trombone is so fucking obnoxious even someone numb to wrestling would have a hard time ignoring it. I do agree that the finish exposes a weakness in WWE booking, but it keeps heat on New Day. Those finishes were easier to handle logically back when Federations would have kayfabe fines, suspensions etc that could punish champions who did that stuff.

Not being a fan of women’s wrestling, I have to say the Divas match surprised me–Nikki still isn’t a great wrestler but seeing her actually work a body part like an actual pro wrestler would do c. Forever - 2003 or so was pretty cool, and it showed me (in the hands of a subpar talent even) how that sort of thing can still work today, and would still work even if done by main event men’s wrestlers.

Cena v Rollins was worked like hell, and really enjoyable. Both guys put on a hell of a show and Seth had 15 minutes of wrestling to do after it was over which is even more impressive. I don’t mind Cena winning here at all, because Seth is the world heavyweight champion. Whatever you normally have to say about Cena always winning and killing pushes doesn’t apply here, all he’s doing is getting a second tier title off the champion, someone who doesn’t need two titles (no one ever needs two titles.) This allows Cena to do some more interesting stuff with the U.S. title while staying out of being too heavily involved in the World Title scene, which to me is win-win.

Finally, the Seth/Sting match, while not the best match I 've ever seen was well worked and saw a 56 year old wrestler put on my 50+ match of the year, way eclipsing anything Taker has done in the ring from WM30 to Present (and maybe before then.)

I’ve never been one to get upset at people that call wrestling fake (I’m fine with using that word to describe scripted fights); but I will just point out Sting took two major bumps and had a legitimate injury (widely reported in mainstream media.) A trainer came to him and after a few minutes, he shook the trainer off and finished the match, at 56 years old. In any other professional sport in America, he’s walking to the sidelines, in professional wrestling he finishes the match.

2846

My biggest sadness with the Sting situation is if he is, in fact, hurt and if it is, in fact, career threatening, then it’s sad because he got it by being a badass in the ring and not just playing around like some old wrestlers (coughundertakercough) do.

If this is his fate…he doesn’t deserve it

2847

I don’t know why everyone is so worried about Rollins right now

Kane just took him under the ring to toke up for a bit

2848

Good news, everyone! Lucha Underground season 2 has been officially greenlit.

Looks like they’re staying in Boyle Heights and will be starting taping in the next month or so with the season premiere in early 2016.

2849

WOOT! LU LU LU!!!

I miss communing with the gods of battle, the dragons, the high priests, the death worshippers, the cosmic surfers, the animists, the blood mages, the danger-ignorant high flyers, the living masks, and the residents of the peyote realm.

2850

Did you see the notice on WWE.com that Monday’s RAW was supposed to start with a “major announcement from Sting”? I’m surprised it didn’t start with a shot of whatever the Titantron is called this week, revealing…Triple H, saying, “Ha ha, made you watch!”

The only problem I have with Sting making a “retirement announcement” is, he’s done this before, as part of a TNA storyline. I don’t see how they can make a WWE version seem legitimate (if this is necessary) unless, say, they can get some other wrestlers who have done the same thing alongside him, like Arn Anderson and Edge (and Taz, if they can get him from what’s left of TNA).

2851

Taz deserted that sinking ship a long time ago.

2852

Wow, I disagree with almost every word of this post. I’ve preferred women’s wrestling to men’s wrestling for about a decade now (not coincidentally, SHIMMER celebrates it’s ten-year anniversary next month). I’ve reached the point where I only watch WWE to see the men and women I’ve followed since the indies, and fast-forward through almost everything else (except the New Day).

I also prefer women’s MMA and women’s boxing to men’s, too.

2853

I’d say based on the fact that women’s wrestling has been a thing since before I was born, and has never been a driver of significant merchandise sales or fan interest, you’re in the extreme minority.

Women’s MMA, or at least Ronda Rousey, appears to be a different thing. But almost no one is turning on WWE to watch the women, and given the long history of that being the case I’d be shocked if it ever changes.

2854

And honestly, just from a product standpoint women’s wrestling is often terrible. Maybe SHIMMER (which I’d never heard of, but is apparently an independent promotion specializing in women’s wrestling) puts on good matches, but WWE has always been really spotty with its women’s product. Even some of the competitors they have today who are capable of putting on a good match rarely do, when PPV matches or Raw matches sometimes only like 3-5 minutes I’m curious as to what you’re getting out of them, especially since most of them simply aren’t good matches–it’s my position any wrestling match under 5 minutes is probably not that great.)

2855

And I’ve long since made peace with that. If it’s all the same, I’ll continue to let merchandise sales and fan interest be the problem of the people who’s job it is to make money off of the product. I just like what I like. I will continue to support them with my dollars, and my viewership, and hope that there continue to be enough like-minded people to keep them in business. I would love for SHIMMER to become the standard bearer for professional wrestling, and become a legitimate rival to WWE in ratings, but I’m realistic enough to understand that it won’t, and really can’t. But, popularity does not equal quality, and the bell-to-bell content of SHIMMER’s product far exceeds what is provided by WWE’s main roster on a weekly basis (and, as I mentioned previously in this thread, I am a workrate mark), and has been for many years now. If they never attain the lofty success that I and people of my ilk think they deserve, I guess that’s just life. Sometimes, the best you can hope for is that something that you really like is just popular enough that they afford to continue to keep the doors open.

If I gave two shits about ratings and popularity and merchandise sales, as it pertains to sports and entertainment, then I would also love American football, and hate women’s basketball. But, well, I’m the opposite of that.

2856

We’re very fortunate to get a good match a week on Raw (and, I agree that 5-minute matches suck). At this point, I mostly continue to watch out of inertia and, as I said before, to see the men and women I cheered for on the indies, like Bryan Danielson (Daniel Bryan) Kevin Steen (Kevin Owens), Tyler Black (Seth Rollins), Claudio Castagnoli (Cesaro), Rebecca Knox (Becky Lynch), Brittani Knight (Paige), Davina Rose (Bayley), Prince Devitt (Finn Balor), Samoa Joe, El Generico (Sami Zayn), Tenille (Emma), Kana (Asuka) and Jessie McKay (Billie Kay).

About the only wrestlers that I tune in for that could be considered WWE products are Sasha Banks and the New Day; I’d be perfectly content if the rest fell into a sinkhole.

2857

I remember seeing SHIMMER in somebody’s background when I look them up in Wikipedia, but this is actually the first time I’ve seen it mentioned in conversation. Therefore, I know just a cunt hair more than nothing about it. How does one see it?

NXT pretty much sucked tonight, except for the last match and Enzo & Cass’s promo. of which I have little idea of what they actually said. The Eva Mannekin/Carmella match was slow as molasses, but I did learn that the participants have to face the camera when they attempt a pin. Eva took Carmy down, butt facing the camera, then she jumped over to pin from the proper side. The audience booed not because Eva is a heel and heels are supposed to be booed COREY LAYFIELD… they booed because Eva hardly moved when Carmella flipped through the ropes and somehow became crippled when she made contact with the metal grating.

And then later on Bull knocks down Tyler and takes 5 minutes to climb the ropes, and Tyler rolls out of the way. Bull brings him back in with a flip, makes another 5 minute climb, and how about that, he loses!

I’m doomed. Dana Brooke barely speaks English better than Asuka, but she’s growing on me.

2858

Been listening to Stone Cold’s Unleashed podcast recently? :slight_smile:

Shimmer doesn’t put on regular shows, as such: they have shows twice yearly, in Berwyn, IL, just outside of Chicago, where they tape four DVDs in two days. In the last couple of years, though, they have also joined the indy promotions who take advantage of the influx of fans for Wrestlemania, to do a one-off show in the city/area that Mania takes place.

Some of the more noteworthy SHIMMER alums to wrestle in either WWE or TNA (just sticking to women who held titles in one of the two televised promotions) include: Beth Phoenix, Natalya, Taylor Wilde, Awesome Kong/Kharma, Sarita, Madison Rayne, Hamada, Britani Knight, Winter and Bayley.

2859

According tothis article…

Sting had no damage according to his CAT scan and according to his Agent he’s supposed to make “a full recovery”. That could be a lot of up-talk, but no damage is a berry good thing

2860

Another thing that was brought to my attention that prompted another thought that I wanted to share…

The Royal Rumble, at the Amway Center in my sunny Orlando neighborhood, is booked the same week as the NFC Championshiyaaaaa (there are no P’s in that word according to Lillian Garcia). They did this because apparently the Magic have a home game the next week. A podcast I listen to said how huge of a mistake that is and that they should have just moved cities. I’m assuming they said this because, given the choice, America is going to watch my Packers beat whoever they end up playing rather than watch the Rumble but my question is…does the WWE even care?

Because it’s a PPV that kinda-sorta has it’s own ratings system they want to be able to report big numbers for their shareholders or whatever, but because of how hard they push the network, and how badly they want people to subscribe to it, they don’t really NEED people to watch it Sunday at 8. Wouldn’t they be just as happy to have people watch it Monday at Noon? I’m not saying that they should just blow off Sunday and focus their marketing on “Just make sure you watch before RAW! And you can watch it on Monday only on the WWE Network!”

so the TL;DR version of this is basically there is a good chance that a lot of people are going to rather watch football on that Sunday than the Rumble, but I propose since it’s a PPV and not a RAW that the WWE probably doesn’t care too much because they want views on the Network anyway and they can just say “Watch it now”

2861

Well, let’s put some blame on that game plan. Who decided it was necessary to subject a 56 year old man to buckle bombs and other hard hits on his back and neck?

While some of that might make logical fighting sense, I do recall that NOT ONE PERSON ever targeted Steve Austin’s brace covered knees.