Arafat is also the current leader for an independent Palestinian state. He has also worked with/against the state of Israel to create an Palestinian home. These chips stand for Palestine, they are using Arafat’s image, but only to that extent, not for “the murders of Jews”.
Don’t compare Mengistu to Arafat. That’s like comparing Stalin to Sharon, they don’t come close. I suggest you read about Ethiopia under his rule before we start this disscussion.
Are you going to provide proof that they are funding Terrorists, or do you just expect that fear and hate of all-things-arab will carry you through this debate?
So your comparing Arafat to Hamas?
So, you are equating Arafat to Hitler?
People see those Kids as heros, if a country invaded the USA and Americans were protesting this way you would concider them heros too. You can say that doing this is stupid, but
Kids (all over the world) rarely think about their future. They get mad, they do rash things.
This fits exactly with Arab culture. From ancient times to today Arabian culture (even the religion of Islam) has followed the Muruwwah. The Muruwwah or “Arab code of virtue” is consists of: Bravery, patience, loyalty, hospitality, generosity to the poor, protection of the weak, defiance toward the strong, and persistence in revenge. This is the kind of justice that prevailed in the desert.
It is a code for them kind of like in Japan with their culture of warriors. Few understand life and culture in this part of the world, which I fear contributes to all the confusions
Actually, I had an Ethiopian roommate whose family was wiped out by the Mengistu regime, and I heard plenty about the crimes committed by the Dirgue, so don’t act so damn superior.
Mengistu became leader of Ethiopia through slaughter of innocents. Arafat did the same. Their crimes differ only in quantity, not in kind. If Arafat were able to take all of Israel, trust me, his name would soon be listed next to Mengistu, Stalin, and Pol Pot. The only difference between the big league mass murderers and Arafat is that he has not yet accomplished his goal, the total destruction of the Jewish state of Israel.
In the regard that they’re both murderous anti-Semites, yes. Although Arafat is definitely the lesser of two evils, they’re beliefs and goals about Jews sometimes have common threads.
Tangent: I bet if you gave Arafat’s al-Aqsa a gas camp and some armored transport vans, there’d be more dead Jewish settlers than you can count in the hundreds.
Quoth efrem, “So your [sic] comparing Arafat to Hamas?”
Why not? Arafat has formal ties (logistics support, monetary funds, indirect creator of) to the al-Aqsa Martry’s Brigade, which does such noble acts as bombing family venues and shooting up Jewish high schools.
Oh, and ever heard of “Black September”, efrem?
Sorry, bub, but while one can make a case for an independent Palestinian state, whitewashing an evil, murdering thug like Arafat isn’t the way to go about persuading anybody.
their*
Well, it could be that they voluntarily moved to Israel. It could be that there weren’t very many Jews in those countries to begin with. It could also be that they were pushed out of the surrounding Arab countries like the Palestinians were pushed off their land. You’ve quoted numbers to show there aren’t many Jews there, now show me some evidence that they were terrorized into leaving.
Well, if careful research showed that the standard of living in Mexico was far higher than that of the United States (say around the level of Sweden), then I’d hardly be surprised that few Hispanics chose to emigrate to the United States.
My point here is that your approach of automatically concluding “It is like this” merely by citing the surface appearance of a situation is a shoddy way of arguing your point.
Not at all. Germany has an obviously demonstrable proof of virulent anti-Semitic history, yet there seems to be still a significant population of Jews in the country today. (Unfortunately, the CIA World Factbook doesn’t list the specific percentage of the German population that is Jewish, but rather lumps them all under the 26% of “unaffiliated or other religion”). Assuming, say, a generous 20% of the German population is Jewish, that makes a pretty high retention rate for a country that killed four million of them. Therefore, the numbers you cite for the Arab countries must have one of two explanations:
a) Those countries didn’t have a large Jewish population to begin with; or
b) The Arab countries did things to their Jewish populations that make Hitler look like a piker by comparison.
Your assertion is b). Please, therefore, provide every bit of evidence you can that the Arab countries have inflicted one of the worst crimes against humanity in the history of civilization against their former Jewish populations.
Well, because they were just as horrified by Israel’s conduct against the Palestinians as the rest of us were. Actually quite simple.
You’ll pardon me for thinking, therefore, that those Jews who argued successfully with the carriers of those signs to either drop them or cover them with another pro-Palestinian sign are far better representatives of their religion than you could ever hope to be.
Actually, a better answer would be “Because the Jordanians didn’t kick the Palestinians off their own land, slaughtering hundreds and thousands and destroying whole villages in the process.”
That, Phil, has become more than painfully obvious.
Don’t let your tendency to get aggravated easily get in the way of your ability to think critically.
Yep, those are the things I think of when I read about some scumbag sneaking into a house and shooting a five-year-old child in the head in her sleep. Or some worthless waste of human flesh blowing themselves up and killing an elderly grandmother and a young child, and injuring a baby. Yeah, that’s some brave defense of the weak, there.
If that kind of behavior is what this so-called “code of virtue” (Virtue!! Jesus Christ.) leads to, and you defend it . . . this kind of behavior is not something you strive to understand. It’s something you strive to eliminate.
And I’ll sure equate Arafat with Hamas. Not only has he failed in all his years of Palestinian “leadership” to take them out of the loop (even though he could have done so), he’s actively encouraged links between his own Fatah organization and Hamas.
[quote]
You’ve quoted numbers to show there aren’t many Jews there, now show me some evidence that they were terrorized into leaving.
[q/uote]
Yo. what about my cites? If you like, I can dig up some truly heinous anti-Jewish rhetoric from the heads of Arab states, including what Assad the Younger of Syria said to the Pope.
There are roughly 60,000 Jews in Germany, out of a population of 80 million. They constitute roughly 1.3% of the population.
Oh, and when did the Israeli’s slaughter hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, pray tell?
I never said that they were. I said that the Arab states were actively anti-Semitic, and they are.
Please quote e-x-a-c-t-l-y where I asserted “b,” or immediately withdraw this assertion. I can’t believe that you would attempt to put words in my mouth after I’ve shared pizza with you, like that
My assertion, spefically, was that Israel treats its Arab citizens far better than any Arab state treats Jews. No more, no less. This is an easily demonstrated fact, and in fact, as gobear’s links to Arab media have shown, has been demonstrated.
And you can ignore away the differences between Western European liberal democracies and Middle Eastern monarchial despotism if you want, but it bears heavily on your astuteness if you do.
Oh, and 3) don’t you even dare, after you’ve proudly proclaimed how you would actively work to prevent other American citizens from exercising their free speech rights, to get up on a moral high horse over my expressing outrage towards some shithead who would equate my relatives with my relatives’ murderers. Someone’s going to hold up a sign telling me that my family is functionally equivalent to the people who killed them, and you want me to be calm about it? Riiiiiiiight.
Actually, I don’t think those choices are mutually exclusive, especially the last two.
Olentzero, you’re totally ignoring evidence that the Palestinian cause is being used as a smokescreen by Arab nations, motivated by centuries of anti-Jewish hatred, to attack Israel’s existence. If Arab nations genuinely were concerned for the welfare of Palestinians, why won’t they let Palestinians settle in their countries? Kuwait, for example, employs tens of thousands of Palestinian guest workers who are ecluded from applying for citizenship.
Sure, Palestinian and Israeli hate and bloodshed need to end in an equitable, fair, and above all, final peace settlement. Pretending the the Palestinians are motivated only by love of coutnry. or that they are willing to coexist with a Jewish state, is fatuous in the extreme.
And I’m not impressed by the fact that you have leftist Jewish marchers in a pro-Palestinian demonstration. One of the marks of any leftist movement is often a rejection of one’s own ethnic or national group. Cetainly, we’ve seen any number of leftists in the US supporting anti-American causes.
It did strike me as silly that if you really were educated on things like “the Red Terror”, daily masscares, and the great fammine of the 80’s you can compare Mengistu/Derg to Arafat.
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They differ in quantity? that is for damn sure!
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Trust you? Is that even a valid argument?
I really don’t have the time to start this disscusion, so hopefully I’ll just say Godwin, and be done with it.
The chips do not depict Arafat as a Saint, or whitewash his past at all.
My use of Godwin’s was on a specified tangent, so please do respond to the rest of it.