Are Vulcans Possible?

Possibly one for GQ, possibly one for GD. But it involves the fictional Vulcans. So I will put it in Café.

In the purely dramatic Star Trek universe, the Vulcans are a only logical. They have emotions. But they keep firmly in-check.

Something I have wondered since childhood: is such a race possible?

I know I only learned as an adult, some people believe morals and ethics are purely emotional. They have no logical component.

Also, Star Trek, like any fictional work, sometimes plays loose with the facts. It doesn’t have to be based on science and truth (at least not completely).

Also, I vaguely remember asking a similar question in the past. But it has been so long, I honestly don’t know. Now, the search option for this site won’t work for me (I do remember posting that once;)). So if anyone knows what I am talking about, feel free to post a link. Again, I honestly don’t remember, and think it was about something else anyway.

:slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

Vulcan adherence to logic isn’t a genetic thing, it’s cultural. I think the Star Trek series and movies make it pretty clear that Vulcans actually struggle with controlling their emotions.

To give the quick and dirty lowdown on how they are how they are, based on my admittedly poor memory, Vulcans were once incredibly warlike, and nearly killed themselves off. A philsopher named “Surak” came up with the idea of being logical and stoic as a solution to all the fighting, and one way or another everyone came around to it. Vulcans by the time the show happens put enormous value on being stoic, and base a lot of their culture on it.

This doesn’t strike me as being an outrageously impossible thing. In the real world we have or have had cultures that place a huge amount of value on manners, or religious faith, or belligerence, or any number of things. Why not stoicism and logic?

But, based on that, one might expect Vulcan criminals to be incredibly violent, random and evil, as a form of rebellion against logic and stoicism.

It’s also canon that the Romulans were a group of Vulcans who rejected Surak’s philosophy and went off to build their own Planet of Hats, with hookers and blackjack.

I’d say it’s at least partly genetic, even if it is just the case that a full-blooded Vulcan has been “bred” to have a more controllable disposition–full on logic all the time except during pon farr when a capacity for unbridled fury must also be demonstrated.

Spock’s whole schtick was about being somewhat handicapped by being a half-breed. He could act like a Vulcan, but it seemed it was unusually difficult for him to do so owing to his genetics.

thus the Trek film which Should Never Be Named.

I guess in the realm of sci-fi anything is possible. But if you’re asking if humans could become somehow predisposed to a purely logical method of thinking, well, humans who’ve had brain damage that inhibit their ability to access their emotions become almost completely incapable of making any decisions at all. Link.

I think it stretches credibility that super-strong humanoids who go nuts when they get horny would develop a cultural practice of purely logical thinking that over-rides their innate emotions.

In real life, it is certainly possible for a culture to be stoic, laconic, etc. And all children learn to control themselves as part of the process of maturation.

I was going to say the exact same thing.

smacks head on bulkhead and knocks self unconscious. Wakes up having no recollection of said film.

Name it! Name it! :smiley:

The subtitle is “Shatner Happens”.

Indeed. Take the word “Laconic”, it means “from Lakonia”, aka Sparta. Where, you know, children learned to control themselves as a part of the process of maturation.

You know that ship like the back of your hand… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGUYN8bUJB8

Learning to control yourself and becoming a peaceful and purely rational actor are quite different. Spartans learned to control themselves so they would be better at slaughtering others.

And the Vulcans are apparently quite good at slaughtering others, too, as evidenced by the fact that it was the Romulans who had to go off and find another world for themselves, not the followers of Surak. They just don’t have to do it very often.

I always assumed that the Vulcans were an analogy for a specific part of human nature (just like most aliens are): they are an exaggeration of how humans learn to behave in society by suppressing their baser instinct. How many times have you wanted to yell at someone but bit your tongue instead? How many times have you been tempted to cheat on your spouse, but didn’t because it would be wrong? How many times have you wanted to rip your clothes off and jump into Buckingham Fountain while belting out ABBA songs? Okay, maybe that one is just me. But anyway, I see the Vulcans as just another way to extrapolate and explore human behavior through fictional narrative.

Same with Klingons (violent side of human nature), Romulans (sneaky side of human nature), Ferengi (greedy side of human nature), etc.

Vulcans exist, they’re called sociopaths. They are people whose emotions are mostly controlled and who have to use logic and reasoning a lot more to compensate for the fact that they don’t have emotional motivations.

No, it’s not possible that all children will accept that indoctrination and that none will rebel. As someone already said, you can make anything “possible” in Sci Fi, but if we accept what we know about humans and work within those limits, then no, it’s not possible. You’d have lots of rebels unless you had a ruthlessly authoritarian society like North Korea. And you’d still have plenty of rebels even then.

From the standpoint of human cognition, emotions are not a seperate or more primitive level of interpretation or decision making but are an innate part of our sapience which allows us to make value judgments and anticipate consequences in absence of sufficient information to make rational decisions. As Inner Stickler notes, a cognitive inability to intepret or manage emotions renders a person incapable of volition. (People with the Asperger’s Syndrome and on the autistic spectrum appear to lack the normal capability to interpret the behaviors of others in emotional terms and to manage their own emotional responses, requiring special conditioning and training to compensate in order to be functional in society even when they display otherwise normal intelligence as measured by IQ testing.)

As more is being understood about cognition and the activity of the brain by functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) it actually appears that many of our daily activites and decisions are driven on an emotional level below conscious awareness (by viewing that all parts of the brain, and not just the forebrain, show incresed activity during processes invovled in higher cognitive work) and that much of what we view as rational behavior is actually post hoc rationalization of decisions or influence judgments that we believe to be entirely conscious in nature. For instance, you may think that you’ve deliberately decided what to have for lunch, but in fact the complex of ten billion odd neurons in your gut is signalling to the hypothalamus what it (thinks it) needs for homeostatic regulation of metabolism, which tells you to get delicious foods with lots of calorie-rich fats and starches instead of that bland dry salad you put in the back of the breakroom fridge. This totally makes sense from an evolutionary standpoint where you should eat all the calories you can get when they’re available, but not from a modern post-scarcity caloric lifestyle. If you haven’t made the habit of ignoring those pangs and eating the salad anyway you’ll make an excuse for getting that burrito (“I have to be social”, “I’m going to the gym later”, “I need the energy for that afternoon meeting”, whatever) that will seem completely rational at the time, and then only feel guilty about it after consuming the meal, and then repeat the whole cycle again tomorrow.

The major reason for emotional responses driving much of cognition is they allow us to anticipate future events based upon prior experience without having to directly recall the experiences or compile lists of pros and cons to consider. This is what lets you operate an automobile on the highway at 80 miles an hour and avoid someone who cuts across lanes without signalling or to intuit that the cute brunette on the seat opposite you on the train is shyly giving you attentive looks. (Whether she wants to have dinner with you or is just enthralled with the giant blackhead on the tip of your nose is a separate issue that you’ll have to figure out for yourself.) The brain does so much anticipating that it fills in the blanks for things you can’t see or hear, allowing you to make out a conversation on a crackling cell connection or move across the court to be in place to return a tennis ball before it even crosses the net. However, that can also be a problem or an opportunity for misdirection, as optical illusions and a magician’s sleight of hand aptly demonstrate, and can also create cognitive problems in the case of emotional trauma such as those which lead to PTSD and some personality disorders where the anticipatory reactions are not tied correctly to causal impulses.

Much of the advanced structure of the brain, and particularly that involved in sentience (self-awareness) and sapience (applying previous experience and a “theory of mind” to behavior of yoruself and others) appears to be build around such anticipatory responses, and I think it would be difficult to construct a path toward the evolution of cognition that doesn’t have some analogue to emotion to provide a basis for anticipation. Of course, that may just be a limitation to how we conceive of cognition, and an intelligent alien species might have some totally different way of ‘thinking’, but then we’d likely have little basis for communication or mutual comprehension of anything more than very fundamental physical principles, and the result certainly wouldn’t look like pointy-eared humanoids with an affectation to shaved eyebrows and bowl cuts.

Someone will no doubt come along and point out that Vulcans aren’t actually lacking in emotions and that they just restrain them by self-control and conditioning, but this still doesn’t really make much sense, nor is it consistant with the character of Mr. Spock, who often makes illogical and emotionally-driven decisions. (And yes, Spock is half-human, et cetera, ad nausum, but the conceit is that he controls his emotions like a Vulcan.) At best, Vulcans are very good at managing their expression of emotion and rationalizing why they do what they do, but fundamentally they’ve simply conditioned themselves from impulsive behavior and expression, and have developed a certain degree of mindfulness that permits deeper reflection and selflessness, or at least being able to consider the viewpoints of others. Which is something anyone can do to a greater or lesser extent with medication and mindfulness training.

The aliens of Star Trek are, of course, pretty much just singular human archetypes repackaged in improbably human-like forms complete with highly restrictgive monocultures and often openly racist physical and behaviorial characteristics. Exchanges with them are not anything like what we would anticipate meeting and trying to communicate with an intelligent extraterrestrial species would be, not withstanding the implausibility of biological and genetic compatibility with any extraterrestrial life.

Stranger