You know, Mona had a dream once where I hit the dog with the car. She was mad at me all day - and I never hit the dog. We don’t even have a dog. [right]-- Roger Sterling, Mad Men[/right]
You just got elevated to Level 5 of Awesome Towers. Are you free Saturday night?
Stranger
You’re new here, so please keep this in mind.
As there are some significant differences between men and women the two genders do have some differing motivations. As men have typically had most of the power and clout n human society, and in many places still do, women do have an interest in discovering/understanding the motivations of men whereas men have less need to understand the viewpoint of women. At least some of the confusion comes from men lacking practice in seeing the woman’s viewpoint. Men with more capacity to do this tend to be less confused by women.
Of course, some confusion arises simply because people can be confusing, or confused.
There are also some socialization factors involved - the girls being raised to be girls and boys being raised to be boys phenomena. The more isolated the two genders are growing up the more confusion between them I’d expect as adults.
This should, in no way, be construed that each gender should emulate the other. Having some understanding of another’s viewpoint and motivations does not mean adopting them yourself, or even approving of them.
My complaint was tongue in cheek - maybe I should have put a smiley in there somewhere.
Oh, sorry. I saw the dubious smiley and just interpreted that as, “Really? They thought that was OK?” and less as a jokey comment.
whooooooooooooooooooooo caaaaaaaaarrrrrreeeessssssss
besides i’m just being mean… usually people ignore this kind of spamming no?
WHOOOPSIES got attacked by moderator.
Sorry for being a spammer, I shall refrain from being a jerk in the future
I suspect it wasn’t the spammy “who cares” but rather that “childless lonely old hag” comment that brought moderator attention.
On this board “just being mean” is generally frowned upon, except in the BBQ Pit, where it is encouraged, sometimes even rewarded.
Disclaimer: I am not a moderator, just a long time poster expressing an observation on the SDMB culture.
Same.
Also is it just me or has there been a ton of newbies lately?
Well I was going to spend it drinking and watching movies, but if you have a better idea, feel free to join me. It’s a bit of a drive, but hey, the weather’s good for a road trip.
It’s okay, I’ve been a terrible old hag, but his stern words have put me in my place.
Thanks.
I keep thinking of random pairs of people in my peer group. It turns out that most of the people I know are pretty different from each other regardless of their gender…unique individuals you might say.
I think romance is confusing.
I think that for every opinion you can either construct or supply a real situation that supports your idea. And thats fine, back up is important if your making up your mind about something. But here is my example.
Relationships often culminate in arguments because one person cannot understand why the other is mad…
“You never protect me!” she says
He responds by acting tough or trying to stand up for her
“You never protect me” she says again
He doesn’t understand why she is still mad he made the effort and changed his ways
In fact he went so far as to talk about the confusion and she disregarded his attempts at making things right…
WHY?!! he asks WHY!!!
Then someone comes along and says, ahh she’s crazy. It’s not WOMEN, its just her!!! Get a new one…
He decides not to listen to this advice but keeps pushing…
After many failed attempts he finally gets the reason out
“Your stupid friend called me a bitch in front of EVERYONE, and you did absolutely NOTHING about it”
Oh my god, if only i had realized this. If only she had told me from the beggining we would have saved ourselves much arguing!!!
Hence, the question to ask is. Why are women the way they are. Not all, but maybe there is something they share in common, that might help us better cater to how certain things need to be adressed.
If you hurt you partner, don’t you want to make things right?
If your hurt, isn’t it sometimes difficult to “listen to reason”
It helps if you know what your up against, and its probably a good thing, that i’m sure people would like to see a guy do.
Try to see things from HER point of view.
You won’t necessarily feel the way she does but you can most certainly empathize and see that it is justified.
This goes for BOTH sexes.
No, watching movies sounds good. I just got Fallini’s Nights of Cabiria from Criterion. It’s a heartwarming story about a prostitute searching for love in the red light district of post-war Rome. You just provide the bourbon.
Stranger
If I may expand on this. Women are not confusing at all. They are only confusing if you attempt to apply logic and reason. Women more or less live in a fantasy world ruled by their emotional desires. They will then attempt to apply convoluted logic and reason to reconcile reality with what they want reality to be. Perhaps the most well know example - she sees reality as “he didn’t call probably because he lost his cell phone while visiting his sick mother” while actual reality is “he didn’t call because he’s just not that into you.”
For men in relationships, this often manifests itself in the form of the “nothing fight” where some seemingly inocuous act results in a major blowup over what appears to be nothing. Well the reason whatever you did caused such a huge shitstorm is because you inadvertantly cause the walls of her dilusion to come crashing down around her.
Take **Chessic Sense’s **example:
Her- “You don’t consider my feelings!”
Me - “Oh, I considered them. Then I ignored them.”
In her mind, you are supposed to love and worship her so much you should always selflessly put her feelings ahead of anything else. Well, his response basically shattered that myth. Like Neo after taking the blue pill, she is going to be angry, frightened and confused until she can either rebuild her fantasy or adjust to the new reality.
Let me be the first to say I am shocked –shocked, I say!– that smith entered a thread about women to say something bitter and misogynistic.
IMHO, there are two separate issues that get conflated in discussions of men’s failure to understand women.
women tend to speak indirectly, as some have noted.
women tend to relate to each other’s concerns because they tend to share them themselves, or at any rate have enormous exposure to discussions of these concerns and women’s attitudes over many years.
One crucial difference between the two aspects is that the first would hinder women’s communication among each other, while the second would not. In addition, the second aspect implies that men would understand other men better than women understand men.
In relationship terms, if gay couples understand each other better than lesbian couples, then women have a communication problem, not a superior ability to pick up social cues. (The same would also apply to non-sexual relationships, obviously.)
I wonder if any testing has ever been done along these lines.
**msmith **- this isn’t going to go well.
Men are equally as likely to be deluded themselves as women, just along a different dimension that perhaps makes more sense to men.
I think **MeanOldLady **has it right. Humans is weird, and trying to establish gender-based specifics past that will more likely lead to poorer decisions vs. better ones…
Actually it plays quite well if you say it out loud in your best Jack Nickolson voice.
“Why don’t you leave me?.. For God’s sake, I’d almost marry you if you’d leave me.”
Stranger
Women (some of them) are what I want (or want something from). It’s difficut to figure out how to get them do what I want even though I fervently want what I want. Hence, women are inscrutable. It would be extremely helpful if all the women I happen to find attractive could carry instructions, perhaps a pamphlet or small users manual, on how I might go about getting into their pants. In return I would be willing to carry a similar document explaining why I leave my clothes all over the floor, how to get me to clean the bathroom and, as an added bonous, why farts are funny.
Men I don’t want so much from. If they have similar interests we can get along just fine, if not we can ignore each other. Hence, men are easy to understand.
I’m betting that if I were gay then men would suddenly become inscrutable and women not so much.
That must be why my life is so wonderfully fun.
Anyway, if we’re going to use my anecdote, let’s give it a title. Something like, "The Time Dave Couldn’t Understand Julie Because He Thought He Knew What She Was Trying To Do Instead of Hearing Her Say ‘I Don’t Know’”. Too wordy?
Now that I got my silly post out of the way - let me just say that yes, women are confusing. Because women are people and people are confusing.
I agree with others who say that this is not a gender-specific issue, it’s a humanity generic issue. Too often we assume that everyone thinks the way we think, or that certain things that are common sense to us or corollary to us should be obvious to everyone. Well, it’s just not. It’s all symbolic and symbiotic based on upbringing, genetic make-up, and past experiences. Sometimes, among certain civilizations, enough of these factors are similar for enough people that it seems to be “the norm” - but it’s all circumstantial evidence. Just because 5 boys or 5 girls think the same way, it doesn’t make it clear that all boys or all girls think the same way. To suggest otherwise is just irrational.
That being said - even though on the surface we women may appear to be confusing - the truth is that you just have to find the common ground and work from there. And both parties have to stop lying and denying what’s going on.
I have a friend who got mad at his ex-wife because she showed up for his grandfather’s funeral wearing a black dress with black nylons. He felt she did this, not because it was a funeral and it’s common to wear black, but because she knows that he finds them sexy and wanted to torture him. Bwah?
It’s all perception on what we think is the norm, what we think is corollary, and what we interpret as insulting or insinuating.
As I like to say - don’t infer that I implied when I merely informed, my friend.