I had to jump into this topic, and this is as good a place as any place.
This morning I sat through about an hour and half of child support hearings. The first up, largely for the benefit of those coming after, are clad in orange and shackled. They are accruing child support while sitting in jail for failure to pay child support, and they have to come up with money to get out of jail.
A couple of the guys had tens of thousands of arrears, and had to pay it all before they could get out. One guy had 17K in arrears, and said, as they all do, “I can’t pay any back because I’m in jail.” The judge said “you can stay in jail the rest of your life.” This guy responded, “well my life won’t last much longer then.” To which the judge replied “That’s fine with me.”
I think deadbeat dads who shirk their responsibilities have to be dealt with, but what I saw today looked to me to be essentially debtor’s prison.
I can see incarceration being a useful tool when there is reason to believe that a deadbeat parent has income or assets but is failing to disclose them, but to keep deadbeats in jail when they obviously have neither income nor assests is just plain disgusting, and shame on any prosecutor or judge who is party to such obscene judicial behaviour.
In cases like this, I have to wonder if the guy had a history of not paying, for instance changing jobs whenever they caught up with him, worked under the table, etc. When someone racks up tens of thousands of child support debt, they have to have been accumulating that amount for YEARS.
I am in arrears to Minnesota child support services. I have not paid support in years for various reasons. I’m not going to make excuses. I did try to arrange to make payments years ago, not at the full amount, but I wanted to at least get started. The child support officer told me that if I couldn’t pay the full amount, then there was no reason to pay anything, because it would take too long to pay off the amount. I explained that I didn’t plan on making partial payments forever, just till I got on my feet again, but she still insisted it would not be enough. I though that was a rather stupid response, as something would be better than nothing, but I took them at their word. Anyway, I had been a full time care provider for my invalid wife of 20 years and at the time I couldn’t afford to pay the support. My children have since grown up, my wife has passed away (not my children’s mother) and I would like to find out how to begin the payment process to I can get my drivers license and get my life together. I am living in another state, texas as a matter of fact. I have found that Minnesota can not suspend an out of state license, but I really want to put this behind me and move on with my life. There is no active child support order in my case and most of the amount owed is interest. I have also been told that if I start to make payments, It will nullify my ability to possibly get the interest lowered, as that would be admitting to owing the entire amount and there would be no way I could get the interest down. Is there anyway I can get the interest reduced first of all and then how to I go about starting the payment process and insuring that I will eventually be able to get my drivers license back? Thank You!
My friend is still married. She gets $2000 support (Alimony and child) each month total voluntarily under the table. What are the advantages and disadvantages of getting a support order in writing? Her husband will soon be broke because he can’t manage money. He has a good job with benefits. That’s why they’re still married. She makes minimum wage. In PA. Questions? She can always get a support order later?
Advantages of NO support order:
$300 less income tax for wife. 500 more for husband.
Health insurance
Disadvantages?
I thought of one. If she gets a good job, then files for support, the amount will be much less. If she files first, then he might not realize she’s making more later.
That was proposed in Illinois a while back, and I agreed with the judge who said that if it was initiated, he wouldn’t enforce it because it was a total waste of time to do so: “Anyone who has so little regard for societal mores that they aren’t going to support their children is not going to stop driving because they don’t have a license.”
If you have a professional license in Illinois and fall more than 30 days in arrears, the board can and will suspend a license.
I know a woman who at one point had a judgment that was $2.76 a week , although I’m pretty sure she was on TANF at the time, and this may have been the maximum amount she could get and still keep all her benefits.
I am not familiar with PA’s court system. I am also not an attorney and wouldn’t presume to give legal advice.
As a custodial parent myself, I wouldn’t NOT have an order. It protects both me and my ex. It makes everything clear for every one. It allowed me to open a case up and pursue collections. It also removed some of the problems we had -I didn’t have to nag him for money, he didn’t have to deal with me.
License suspension is different in every state. Here, a payor must be three month and $500 behind to even select. A month later notice is sent. Then the payor has over three months to do something. That something depends on the case, but it pretty much comes down to sending in payments. That is the same for driver’s or occupational licenses.
The amount requested is normally what was ordered, plus an additional amount if there is back support due. If a person receives cash assistance it doesn’t change what is ordered, but we don’t actively pursue collections. We cannot collect support of any type from someone’s assistance.
My ex is chronically behind. When he gets to the suspend-license-date, I usually call the agency to check in. Is this a bad idea? I mean, I’m sure the workers are aware of him (along with the many others in arrears), but I’ve found that if I call only when necessary and be polite, it seems to make sure that I’m not forgotten.
So far, he’s always paid by the last day so I’ve not had to take it further, but in the meantime, what happens when he’s late? I know he gets letters and presumably phone calls, but is there leeway on the agency’s end? Or are you basically just bill collecting? I’m afraid he’ll give some sob story to the wrong person and buy himself a little time. Or conversely, if I tell the person I talk with things that I know about his financial situation, does that change things?
I don’t want to throw my personal problems on the person who answers the phone, but I also don’t want to miss out if they can give me a tiny bit more help.
Calling is never a bad idea. While I work cases every day, all day, a phone call not only brings your case up front, but the information you provide may prompt me to take an action I otherwise may have decided against. Now, I do have some clients that call daily and that does not help. Many actions are not instantaneous.
Quite a few people wait until the day before an action kicks in, such as license suspension, and there really is nothing we can do about it. Our goal is to collect support, not punish (despite what some think). It is frustrating, I know. If it becomes an obvious system game, we will take action against the payor, such as siccing the county attorneys on them. People ignore us no problem, but they will listen to a letter from the attorney.
We do have a minimal amount of wiggle room when making a payment plan, but it varies from state to state and county to county.
What happens during the months he doesn’t pay? He’s jagged at via mail and phone. Interest accumulates on arrears. Arrears get reported to credit bureau agencies. Tax refunds may be snatched. Bank accounts may also get snapped up. A good worker is digging through databases for any info on how the payor is making bills, contacting probation officers, reviewing the case history to create a plan of action.
And yes, we are basically bill collectors. I compare a fair amount of what I do to being a meter maid. The law is pretty straight forwards, my job is to enforce your order within the boundaries of the statutes.
I don’t know what your sitiuation is or how long you’ve been paying support. O know court irdered support can be very bad for non custodial parents who have a serious drop in income. That said,
If your son had a roof over his head, food on the table, and clothes to wear that’s what your support went for. Who was responsible for health insurance for him? Dentist bills? Were there extra activities in school that cost money? Did you pay for those as well as support? Did he drive one of those three cars occasionally?
In some states you pay until they are 21 if they continue their ediucation.
Can’t you just get a support order later? When you need to pursue collections? What’s the disadvantage assuming this happens? A small delay? Less money? A missed month?
I can’t give you a set answer. If she doesn’t receive public assistance, she never has to obtain an order. She can go to the court and obtain motion papers to establish support whenever she wants. It can take a few months to get into court, and it’s not uncommon for the person who will be paying support to quit paying / quit working / disappear. It’s a crap shoot.
Why hasn’t she filed for divorce?
I totally forgot I’d posted in this thread. But I have another question regarding support from a foreigner father. We’re going through divorce proceedings (we tried and it just didn’t work), and in the process I think I’m going to get a child support order since I’m on public assistance. Now, I know they can’t legally pursue payment while he’s in Japan but…if the amount in arrears(?) continues to build, will it flag him should he ever come to visit? Basically what I’m asking is, if he doesn’t pay and tries to come into the country for any reason, will it cause him problems?
Does he permanently reside in Japan? I don’t believe the US has reciprocity with Japan, so support may not be ordered. If he’s there temporarily, an order may be set to start when he returns. And, when it comes down to it, a court can order whatever it wants, ignoring what is actually possible.
And, FWIW, even if there is reciprocity, collecting is very difficult. It can take over a year before all the legal crud between agencies is settled. Why? Because most of it is still done through the mail.
Yes, he’s a Japanese citizen living in Japan. And no, we don’t have reciprocity. Hell, they never even signed the Hague Adoption Convention. I’m lucky my daughter’s not a Japanese citizen or I’d have more to worry about than financial support. I knew there was no chance of any legal action to be taken if he didn’t pay, but are you saying there might not even be an order issued through the courts since they know they can’t pursue it?
, although I’m pretty sure she was on TANF at the time, and this may have been the maximum amount she could get and still keep all her benefits.