To my ex-wife, re: child support

The BBQ Pit
1

Look, I pay child support. I pay it on time (it’s cut from my paycheck), and I don’t begrudge a penny of it. It’s helping the kids.

I try to be fair about it, too. Last year, when I got a raise, I voluntarily calculated the extra amount of child support you should be getting and wrote a separate check for that amount. I did that to keep you from having to pay to file a new income withholding order. I told you all this before I started sending you the checks.

But now, the kids are old enough so that daycare isn’t necessary any longer. A chunk of the child support amount I’m paying now is based on the need for work-related child care. Since that’s not a factor any longer, I want to lower the amount I pay in child support. Actually, I brought this up via e-mail twice last year, but you never responded and (like an idiot) I let the matter drop.

Again, I’m willing to be fair. I’ve used our state’s guidelines and calculated the amount I’m supposed to pay, and even added a little on top of that. I don’t want to go to court to have this done, since we as reasonable adults should be able to agree on this.

But now you’re pulling stupid crap. When I first mentioned this via e-mail last month, your initial response was “I didn’t realize the child support amount could change.” (What, you thought I was voluntarily sending you an extra check last year because I was tired of just burning the money for heat?) I sent you links to two separate child support calculators for our state on the Internet. Then you said you wanted to talk to your lawyer. I agreed that you should do that.

Well, that was four weeks ago. Somehow, you haven’t been able to talk with your lawyer yet. Gosh, that lawyer of yours must be busy. You’ve also consistently ignored my requests for your current monthly income, since the amount I have is two years old. Why do I think you might be making more money now?

We shouldn’t have to schedule a court date, pay lawyers and take time off work to handle something this simple, but that’s what’s gonna happen. I’m sure you’ll try to cast me as the villain with the kids about this (“We would have been able to see that movie, but Daddy isn’t giving us as much money now”), since you seem bent on doing that with everything else. But get a freakin’ clue. The odds are a thousand to one that you’ll get as much from the court as I’m willing to pay, since it’s more than the state requires. Your shortsightedness is going to cost you money in the long run.

So sign the stupid child support adjustment form. It’s not hard. Yes, you’ll get less money each month than you’re getting now, but with daycare gone you don’t qualify for as much money. And with what I’m offering, you’ll get more than the state says you should.

I don’t understand why this is a problem.

2

Goddamn I hope this shit doesnt happen to me.

My divorce will be final in 2 weeks and my wife has my daughter. She is a good mom and I am a good dad and we still get along. I just hope I am not having to fight a bunch of shit a couple years from now when she is out of daycare.

I am paying $400 a month for my little girl. I don’t mind though.

3

I hope you get this all sorted out with as little fuss as possible, Sauron. One thing that I am curious about, that is not related to the child support, is, would it be possible to have any stipulations added to your divorce agreement? IANAL, and have absolutely no clue about such things, but something that is part of my divorce agreement, clearly stated is that, “Neither party will make disparaging remarks about the other, or allow anyone else to do so, in front of, or anywhere where a child might hear it”. This was a standard stipulation that was written into the form by the paralegal service we went through to file our divorce, and boy am I ever glad it’s there, and I noticed the, “or allow anyone else” part. Up until that time, I had already fought against a few negative remarks make about me in front of my kids, by my ex-husband, but he’d straightened up his act. His family, however, whom he is still living with, was a totally different matter, and any issue that would come up with one of them, he would take a totally hands off approach, and say that it was between me and that person. I’d had a lot of problems with his father spouting off at the mouth, up until that time. Once I read that, and pointed it out to him, it stopped, and has not been a problem since.

I don’t know if there’s anything you can do about that now, but if there is, I’d definitely do it, asap. Whatever the issues you and your ex have with each other, never, ever, should your children be made a party to it.

Sorry you’re having such a hard time of it.

~V

4

Sauron, contact your lawyer. A letter from him maybe be enough to scare her into action without it having to go to court. I know you don’t want it to go to court, but you don’t want to be taken advantage of either.

5

Maybe it would be better to go to court and get it straightened out officially.

6

I am a single mom. My bf and I had decided to have a baby when we were 18. After we had the child and reality set in I broke off the relationship with him and I have never received any money from him. I am not willing to go to court nor am I willing to have the ex bf in my life.
My child is now getting old enough that I too am looking forward to the reduction in day care expense (as will be your ex).
Since I am Totally impressed with your attitude I just wanted to offer another option coming from a protective mom’s point of view.
What about a bank account set up for the child(ren) that their mom cannot take from.
This account will be for any emergencies, college, help when the child starts their own life.
Cars, places to live, education, furnature, there are lots of costs your children will endure that you can soften by putting away small amounts now.
I feel way too many moms are too dependant on the income of child support and I really believe the money is to raise the quality of life for the child and the mom can make some sacrifices too.

7

Here in IL, what child care expenses are incurred are not a part of the child care support calculation. I pay a set percentage (25%) of my income regardless of the fact that both my kids will be going into public school in the fall, reducing my ex’s out of pocket by more than a grand a month. It’s just a bonus for her.

8

Thanks for the advice, folks.

If my wife would okay the child support form, it would be signed by the judge who oversaw our divorce proceedings, so it would still go through the courts – the difference would be that WE wouldn’t have to go through the courts, if you see what I mean.

As part of the divorce, I signed over the children’s education funds (mutual funds, savings bonds, and a savings account) to my ex-wife. In hindsight, that probably wasn’t a good idea. So my (current) wife and I, along with my parents, have set up some additional accounts, funded in part with Series I bonds. I’m trying to do what I can to set aside money for their education.

Don’t get me wrong – my ex loves our kids, and I don’t believe would do anything to hurt them. But this foot-dragging irks me tremendously. I’ve been aboveboard about my income and paid more when I knew I should. I think it’s only right that she meet me halfway on this.

VDarlin – there is such a stipulation in the agreement. However, I don’t find out about anything that was said until usually several weeks after the fact, when one of my kids mentions something. I don’t want to make their mother look bad to the kids, so I don’t say anything to them except to correct them when they have the facts wrong. I talk to my ex about such things, but she usually says “I don’t know where they got that.” My feeling is that as long as I’m a good dad to the kids, somewhere down the road they’ll see what their Mom is doing.

9

Let me preface the following with two disclaimers:

  1. I am a child support officer. Have been for going on 6 years. The county I work for collects more per month in support than many states do and we have won many national awards for our work. <That last part was directed to those who look over and say–hmm, Dom is in Minnesota. Bah, she doesn’t know shit.
  2. I receive child support.

To begin:
Sauron: Does your child support go through a child support office, or do you pay her directly?
Many states require support to be paid through a county/state agency. If you DO pay through your state agency, a hearing is (IMO) the best way to go. Stips are fine and dandy, but you do end up with the foot dragging like your ex is doing. Your state agency can be found at State of Alabama DHS. Also note, some state statutes clearly note that payment of daycare can end WITHOUT A STIP OR COURT ORDER if the child(ren) no longer utilize daycare.
What she is doing is wrong, IMO.
But you are giving in. I understand you do not want to create friction, but by starting this thread you are obviously already upset with her. You need to do what is best for you.

Next:
stinkpalm. While I have only been here a short time, I will admit to enjoying your posts. HOWEVER,

made me almost blow a gasket.
You don’t mind?
YOU DON’T MIND?
How fucking noble of you. $400.00 per month, depending on where you live, isn’t anything in the costs of raising a child. I sat down with my ex and figured how much my having her in my household cost between renting a 1br versus a 2br apartment, daycare, food costs, utilities, clothing, activities, and saving for braces/college, what have you. $900.00/month was the difference, give or take a few bucks–and she does not need FT daycare. When she was in FT daycare, the costs for her were in the $1100-1200 range. And no, there isn’t any LUXURY involved. Daycare right now is $400/mo. Again, if your child is younger or the cost of living is higher where you are–$400/mo ain’t shit.
And before anyone rags that it needs to be 50/50, I will be the first to say I agree. You BOTH brought a child into this world, you BOTH need to pay for said child.

VDarlin: ((hug)). I agree completely. ALL too often, children are used as pawns in a continuing pissfight between parents. Not fair to the other person, COMPLETELY unfair to the child.

symplicity:

Well, huzzah for you. Ain’t you special. No shit the mom (or dad–being a single parent isn’t a woman thing) has to make sacrifices. That’s part of being a parent.
And why do you keep your child away from the father?
Wait, I probably don’t want to know.
You post was the most selfish, idiotic, flat out dumb thing I have read here.

10

yes huzzah for me!!
the dad is on drugs, he checks in every few years or so for me to know this is still true (last contact 3 days ago).
Sorry my experience is different from yours (it seems to really anger you) but I have seen moms who are just out to get as much as they can because they don’t care about the dads.
I have also seen dads go on to a new marriage and have new kids and lose interest in their first children.
Most of the single moms that I am around (I don’t know any single dads) have resentment for the dad because the parent living with the child makes more sacrifices. They resent the other parent and do voice this.
My selfish, idiotic, flat out dumb opinion is valid where I live.
Your view should be totally different from mine, you see a whole other side of the situation, for that huzzah for you too!!

11

I’m going to try to be more polite than you were here, but that post kind of pisses me right off. I don’t know where you got those numbers from, but $900 a month for a child’s expenses alone seems awfully high to me, unless you’re used to living like royalty. But even so, half of $900 is $450, which is only $50 more than what stinkpalm is paying. Is it not possible that maybe his child’s expenses are somewhat less than yours, for whatever reason, and that $400 is a fair payment for him? (I know that my own son’s expenses run a great deal less than $900 a month.)

I think you were out of line there.

12

My payment goes through a state agency. It’s cut directly from my paycheck. Alabama allows you to either pay directly or go through the state. My ex (at the insistence of her lawyer) wanted it cut from my check, which was fine with me.

That’s interesting. My understanding right now is that I have to file an amended child support form with the court. To file without appearing before the court, my ex and I both have to sign the form. I’ll have to check into the automatically ending daycare payments. I’m pretty sure, though, that in Alabama you pay the amount in the divorce decree unless one or the other of you petition to change.

Well, actually what I have to do is what is best for the kids. But I don’t see how overpaying on child support is best for the kids.

13

$900 a month seems rather high. Utilities? Rent? Forgive me, but aren’t those expenses you’d have regardless of whether or not you’ve got a kid hanging around? And seeing as how many trusts or college savings accounts are created completely separate from child support, I don’t think it’s fair to include that in the expected payments. Unless, of course, the recipient of those payments plans on fully funding college themselves without asking for additional help. Otherwise, you’ve got the father (or vice versa) paying child support so mom can create an account which she will likely expect to be matched, again, when kiddo goes away. How fair is that?

I’m a single mother and like symplicity I get zilch for child support. I manage. It means working full time and pinching a penny or two but my kid’s not going hungry. We don’t go to flashy restaurants, he doesn’t get the most expensive toys, and sometimes the other kids in his daycare have nicer clothes than him. You know what? He still loves me, and he’s doing just fine, thank you very much. I resent the implication that unless X amount of money is spent on a child he or she is somehow being shortchanged.
Well, on preview Ferrous beat me to the punch (damn you!! :D), but I’m posting it anyway. So there.

bella

14

Ferrous, what bothered me was his comment “I don’t mind”. It is not an “I don’t mind” thing. I hear clients say it VERY often and it is very condescending, as if the custodial parent should be fucking ecstatic the other parent would bestow any funds on his/her poor self.

I find it offensive, plain and simple.

And yes, $900.00.
Do you want me to break it down for you?
Daycare: $400/mo
Renting a 2br versus a 1br: $150/mo
Medical insurance for JUST her: $200/mo
Clothing, shoes, food, etc: $100/mo
Activities (YMCA basketball, swimming, etc): $50/mo

Anything else?

symplicity. Your second post cleared up a lot of things. He can’t be in your childs life if he is not around. That is MUCH different than you saying you don’t want him around.

I know that I am lucky in that my ex and I get along wonderfully and he spends quite a bit of time with her. I am not angry at your ‘experience’, I am angry about how in your initial post you came off–in the “I don’t need him” attitude. You may not. But your child does. Again, upon the second post, I revise that and apologize.

And sauron: The statutes in Minnesota allow for daycare to stop with written proof from either party. Non-custodial parent says kid is not in school, I stop support and leave it to the custodial parent to prove that the child IS utilizing daycare.
But that’s Minnesota.
And I agree, overpaying support is not best. You could be using that money for the child(ren) in a manner different than she may be.
I strongly urge you to contact your worker ASAP.

15

If you would’ve read— HER portion of the bills. IE, if I lived alone I would not have to have a 2 br apartment. I would not have as high as an electric bill. Medical insurance for me is free. For her, $200.00.

Erm…

I guess I am coming off as a money grubbing princess, aren’t I? Gee, I am glad I am buying my daughters love, I guess ((shrug)).

Oh fucking well.

I also work a full time job so I can pay the bills and keep a roof over our head.
Luckily, between child support and my wages, we (her father AND I) can stuff a little aside for her future.
We BOTH scrimp and save because we want the best for her.

Again, I WORK FOR THE FUCKING SYSTEM. I have heard ALL of your stories before. Child support is NOT an entitlement and many people do not receive it (My caseload is specifically cases without support in over a year). It is only BECAUSE I DO receive it that I can make her life a bit better than before.

16

Well, okay. That’s your opinion, I guess. I din’t read it that way. May I suggest that, from the perspective of someone who doesn’t deal with that issue on a daily basis, your indignation seems a tad over the top.

Well, all I can say to that is: :eek:
Things must be more expensive in Minnesota. Adding up my own figures for those things, I come up with about $600. But my company has pretty good insurance.

:shrug:

I don’t want to fight about it, I just thought your snapping at stinky was a bit rude, without knowing more details about his situation.

17

::Standing Ovation for Bella::
You rock. That is,IMO, what is missing from alot of parenting. Nicer clothes and more expensive gifts don’t = love. It is a shame that women like you get stiffed on child support.

18

Domino… so, what, the person who has custody of the child shouldn’t pay for any of that? I don’t get it.

19

If you had read, you’d know that that’s not what I said at all, so please take those words out of my mouth. I simply questioned including rent and utilities in support calculations. You need to heat the house regardless of whether there’s one person living there or one hundred. You’re television doesn’t suck up more electricity when there’s two people watching. You didn’t even mention health insurance until your second post. I see what you’re saying about the extra bedroom, but that certainly isn’t the case for everyone. Rents differ, some people own homes–or are granted them in the divorce, etc.
Look, I’m glad you and your ex are friendly. I’m glad your child is being supported by both a mother and a father. I’m glad you’re in the position where you can save for the future and give her nice things. What I objected to was your tone with symplicity, and the suggestion that she was selfish or stupid because her experience had differed from yours. You’ve since apologized, and so I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt on that one.

As far as jumping all over stinkpalm–that was uncalled for IMO and got me a bit defensive. Maybe the guy only makes 800$ a month and he’s signing over half his income to his kid. Maybe he’s living in a hovel and eating ramen every night so he can make those payments. Probably not, but the point is you have no way of knowing and your attack was out of line.
I guess as someone who’s doing it on her own, I get a little bent out of shape hearing other women whinge and whine about only getting $400 dollars, or receiving their check a day late. It seems a bit, I don’t want to say ungrateful, but maybe unappreciative of how much worse off things could be. I’m not just referring to you here because I hear shit like that all the time, from all kinds of single parents, your post was just a drop in the bucket.
You’re lucky in that you get support, your child is lucky in that she has two parents who love her and want the best for her. But not everyone is lucky, and you’d be well-advised to keep that in mind before you start calling people names.
FunLvnCriminal–Thank you.

bella

20

My experiences tell me Equal Parenting is the way forward. It reduced the conflict in my case considerably.

It helps ensuring all goes as well as possible after a separation/divorce as it encourages cooperation rather than conflict. A google search for Equal or Shared Parenting will get you going.

I believe it’s the norm in some US States, but here in the UK it’s quite rare.

Keep money discusions separate from access - the amount of money you can afford to pay should in no way relate to the amount of time you get to see your kids