WHo were some of the first “famous” people to come out?
The first I can remember was Quesntin Crisp on some talk show.
Wow, that’s new. I would suppose it would depend on the campus, the students, the prevalent attitude and the presentation of the event.
Find out - I for one would be interested to know. What school?
Esprix
Mmmm… Doobieous twin… two Doobieii {Homer Simpson hungry noises} 
Begs the question - fraternal or identical?
Esprix
I have to agree with vix…as a bisexual, it’s really great to see openness and erspect coming through instead of flames and fighting.
Did you already tell this story?
Testify, brother - and amen.
Esprix
You have boots specifically designed for dikes? What, are they waterproof? Do they have a special attachment to stick in holes in case there’s a leak? Perhaps you and our resident clog boy Coldfire should get together and exchange tips.
{Everybody else - wait for it…}
Esprix
Oh, Eve, my darling - little help?
Esprix
The punch line to the joke that derives from that last little witticism by Esprix is, of course, “She decked him.”
I want to suggest that the idea that individuality is what it’s all about, which various posters have approached, makes a lot of sense to me. I noted waterj2 commenting something about the idea of “it’s not a choice” acting to prohibit him from giving matt_mcl a blowjob if he should choose to do so.
I’d like very much to see the day when the “gay movement” shuts down – because it’s not needed any more. When people are content to be precisely themselves.
I knew my wife (not in the Biblical sense, of course;)) since well before puberty, and we’ve been happy together for 13 years of on-and-off courtship and 25+ years of marriage. But at age 42 I met a 17-year-old straight boy who became the deepest emotional relationship of my life. And aside from the romance/sex component, which was not an issue for us, it has had every aspect of a deep love relationship. (And as a result, with the empathy that I seem to have developed over the years, I had to rethink deeply what being gay meant – the result has been the things that I have posted over the past few months on the subject.)
But where would you classify me in that picture? Where would you put waterj2? Where would you assign Snark? What about slythe? And why bother classifying us? Isn’t it enough that we are people, just like you?
Pigeonholes are for pigeons.
Coo, I say. Coo.
Esprix
That was perhaps the most coo-coo remark I’ve ever heard you make – well, seen you post! 
That’ll make a great t-shirt. Right up there which the “Closets are for clothing” shirts, Marvin got us at the MMOW. 
Cheers!
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Esprix *
**
Did you already tell this story?
No, I haven’t really shared the specifics, I’ve just mentioned once in the past that it happened. For Esprix and others, here is what happened.
I live in Corvallis, Oregon, home of Oregon State University. 50,000 people and the home of Hewlett Packard.
On a Friday morning in 1997, I was going to a business meeting at the local public library because I was going to be designing their website. There were some teenagers on my path bothering people and they tried to get in my way. I quickly walked around them and they called me a fag. I replied to them: “And your point is?” and kept walking to my appointment.
After my meeting, which was two hours later, I was going back home. It was 12:30 in the afternoon and I was walking through the park to get back home so I could work. The kids had migrated there.
They started shouting after me things like “Hey faggot.” I turned on them and said how pathetic it was on their second day of spring vacation that they were harassing adults and they needed lives. They followed after me and began spitting on me. I turned on them and doused the lot with a nearly full 32 oz Coke. Then I said: “Now that’s funny.”
I walked across the street from the park and then this 16 year old girl who was 5’2" gets in my 6’4" way and starts saying: “What’s your problem, faggot?” Everytime I tried to walk around her, she got back in front of me and then started swinging on me. She kept missing until finally she connected and then I backhanded her to get her away from me. That was when her six male friends jumped on me. The nine year old grabbed my glasses and ground them into the concrete. Then the rest attempted to beat me into submission. I kicked one in the chest and fended the rest off the best I could until the police showed up. There were plenty of witnesses. Plenty.
The ringleader was caught and I prosecuted them on the Oregon Hate Crimes statute. They recieved court ordered therapy, sensitivity training, and two years of probation, as well as an order to stay fifty feet away from me at all times. The ringleader tried to claim she wasn’t a homophobe and that she never said anything homophobic. I pointed out to the judge that as the park was two blocks away from the courthouse, that had he been the one walking through the park, that he could have been on the recieving end of what I endured.
I was nervous for weeks afterward, and held on to a pepper spray can whenever I left the house for a few months. Ironically, as I have lived in a few major cities across the country, it was only here that I had anyone be bold enough to attack me. After the glasses incident, I rarely leave the house wearing them and put in my contacts no matter what.
coo-coo pigeonholes, a great name for a band!
Hehe, fraternal (thank god!)
A few things.
First an opinion: I think a problem is that kids (well, at least 10 years ago) were/are not educated enough about homosexuality. I remember when I was 12, I found out my uncle was gay (even though it was PAINFULLY obvious, he had been living with a man for as long as I remember), I sat down and sobbed.
Of course, now I am totally accepting. It’s my own opinion that noone can be totally straight or gay. Sexuality just is not black and white.
Now, for my questions:
A few of my friends have come out to me lately. Also, a friend of mine is sort of starting a move from bi towards lesbian. What can I do to help them? I mean, beyond just being there and being a friend. Any advice on that?
2nd: One thing I’ve never understood is what there are stereotypical gay guys. My uncle certainly isn’t, but another one of my friends is so flamboyantly gay… it’s just amazing. I can’t think that your sexual orientation would make you talk with a lisp and stuff like that, so why is it going on?
Hastur, that story sucks, but I’m glad you were in a position to follow through and make a difference. You ever see them after all that?
Maybe for you, but the thought of being between two Doobieii… {drool drool drool}
Also explains why he’s straight and you’re queer. Isn’t there an extremely high correlation between identicals?
Esprix
There is nothing to be done beyond just being there. Just by being their friend, no matter what, makes a huge difference. I might also counsel patience - coming out can be a time of huge changes, so bear with 'em. Things will eventually even out for the better.
This has been discussed quite a bit in the two previous Gay Guy threads, but much of what was discussed was the fact that gay men and lesbians, once they come out, can oftimes feel more free to express themselves than they could when they were in the closet, so they go all out and be themselves. Sometimes, however, it is only one stage in the coming out/sexual orientation identity development process; sometimes, though, that is just simply who they are, and they are quite comfortable being so. The point is the gay community (in general - there are always exceptions) feels to many people to be a place much less strict in gender and sexuality roles, and more accepting of those who are different from mainstream heterosexual society. Trust me, there are lots of “flaming” straight men, but they don’t feel comfortable expressing themselves in today’s straight community (well, except on Halloween, of course). Ask SkySlash - the poor boy is himself, yet can’t seem to find a girl, 'cause they all think he’s gay, but he’s not (much to my chagrin).
Oh, and a happy birthday to you, fellow Libran. Surely sharing the same birthday as me means something in the Great Grand Scheme of Things™.
Esprix
Oh, by the way, I got interviewed by the folks from “The Daily Show” while at Gaylaxicon, the annual GLBT science fiction convention, this past weekend in Washington, DC. It ought to be aired sometime during the week of October 16, but they will let me know the exact date. (I started a MPSIMS thread if you want to comment, but I just figured I’d let y’all know here as well.)
Carry on.
Esprix
OK, people, I need some advice. I talk to a guy on IM and I have always been pretty sure he is gay (60 year old single guy, never married, no kids, and collects stuffed animals). Recently, he posted a picture of himself wearing a Provincetown T-shirt. Now as a radically left-leaning liberal, I have no problem with his sexual orientation but should this be considered his way of “outing” himself and should I let him know that this is OK with me, or wait until he makes it even more obvious.
Second, I was watching the movie “In and Out” and I thought it stereotyped gay men. It basically said that if a man liked to dance or was neat or liked Streisand he was gay. I am a straight female, so I would like to know if the gay guys here see it the same way and are you offended?
Hope that quote thingie worked; it’s my first post, but y’all seem to be a lively bunch, so…
I personally find those broad stereotypes more amusing than offensive, because they’re SO not even close to the gay man that I am at 39 years of age. It’s the same as has been discussed here (apparently for centuries, from the number of sequels!): those ideas of how fags are supposed to act are completely outdated and unreliable, and therefore can now be used in a humorous context. At least I hope we’ve evolved enough as humans to be able to laugh at ourselves, even if we’ve suffered greater indignations than yer standard-issue HET-TROW has…
Besides, if you can laugh at yourself first, you ruin it for your enemies and take away their ammunition…