Really, an “ask the guy who goes to a brothel” is a legitimate thread topic and it almost can’t avoid talking about sex anecdotes. The goal of the “no Penthouse letter” rule is to stop the board from turning into a porn forum where people post stories for no other purpose than sharing porn.
Having such anecdotes in this thread would be no more different than having battle anecdote in a thread about the military or classroom anecdotes in a thread about college.
What do the girls do after being with a customer? Do they slip away for a shower and freshening up or go right back into the main club area? Do they otherwise take breaks in the course of their working day?
Firstly, I do not want to attack you, the OP. I also do not want to start a Debate - I’m interested in the OP’s feelings about it only. But someone had to ask this, sooner or later.
Given that these girls are from poorer countries, with perhaps little alternative to doing sex work. Do you feel ever feel guilty or that you are exploiting their situation?
They walk you to your locker (often you have two, one for your clothes in the dressingroom and a small on for your wallet in the main area), you pay, get a kiss (usually) and then you both go freshen up. Bears pretty much all go take shower (before the session as well btw), you usually don’t really see what the girls do (full on shower or just splashing a bit of water).
When a girl wants a break she can just ‘look uninterested’, sit together with a group of friends or go for a smoking break. In some clubs girls wrap themselves in a towel to indicate they are not available. In general you can say that if a girl is uniterested she won’t get any business anyway. If a girl feels she is ‘done for the day’ or wants a longer rest period, she might find a regular (or anyone she had a pleasant experience with) and hang out a bit with him. The benefit of this action is that you remain popular. If you see girls having fun/spending a lot of time with other Bears, it sends the message that they give good service (also afterwards). There have been a few occasions where I decided to go with a girl mainly because of her positive attitude with other clients (and have never been disappointed). If you seem uninterested or spend all your time talking with other girls, it will not entice any bears to go with her later on.
This dynamic also means that girls you have been with will come and check on you during the rest of the day. Partly to get you to go with them again (now that they know they’re your type and all) and partly to show off how cuddly and happy they are to the other patrons. These ‘after sales’ can be as much fun as the stuff in the room…well almost.
I didn’t know these existed, and I lived in Germany for two years. Of course that was 20 years ago, and all of the Frankfurt action (that I knew about was near the Hauptbahnhof – but it wasn’t clubs, it was window shopping (but not in the street). As for Cologne, wow, I’ve been there several times in the last few years but only managed to find the Gay Sex Shop near my hotel (found, not went in).
Of course I’m old and married now, so it wouldn’t be much good. I did have a very good time window shopping last time I was in Amsterdam, though. I thought it was going to be skeevy, but it was actually kind of a family atmosphere. Yeah, really.
Q: Do you speak English or Dutch or German at the clubs? You mentioned earlier that many/most of the girls aren’t German, so is English generally the lingua franca?
Q: Since it’s a legal activity, I’m guessing the forums aren’t like the paedophile forums and hidden away top secrets. Can you spill the beans on the forum(s)?
Q: Tipping… is it done? You mentioned that Americans screw it up and over-tip. (We do that all over Mexico, too). What’s the standard? (Since you say they’re in business for themselves, the American rule of thumb is don’t tip the proprietor!)
Q: Is there an expectation that you must hire a woman? Once paying your cover charge, can you just kind of hang out and watch what happens?
Q: Assuming one can just hang out, where are some of the better clubs near the Heumarkt area (Köln) since someone I know is there sometimes on business?
I’ll answer this, but I think some people might take exceptions to my view. Thanks for also pointing this out in your question. So if anyone feels the need to discuss (and/or judge) my opinions, they are welcome to do so, but I’d prefer it if it happened in a different thread (I’ll participate if I’m wanted). I’m having quite a lot of fun with this thread and wouldn’t want it to veer of the rails for too long.
My point of view is that the girls choose to be there. I immediately agree that few of the girls would choose this line of work if they could make similar amounts of money by being working at wall mart, but they choose to do this exactly because it is a lot of money. They often do have the choice to live like the rest of the people in their country and work hard for little pay. The same decision works for German girls as well. A German girl once told me that she had to work three evening a week in a cocktail bar to make the same amount of money as two weekends a month in a club…for her that was an easy decision.
These Romanian girls are often not from Bucharest, but from the poorer regions (for instance near Moldova). In Moldova gdp per capita is around 1500 dollar a year…and these girls are young and uneducated (not yet at least), so they would probably make even less. In the clubs they can make more than a months wage in half an hour. Most also work for only one ‘season’, so about 8 months in which they often make enough to support their family, buy a house and be set for college. One girl once told me - after I said something about all Romanian girls being so young - that all Romanian girls in the clubs are between 19-23, after that they go home to start their ‘real life’. I’m definitely not saying we bears are doing them a favor or anything - we are all selfish fucks who want to have sex with young girls that otherwise wouldn’t even look at us - but many girls get something out of it. It is always nice to see that a girl doesn’t return after deciding to leave and sad when she shows up a few months later anyway. One girl (with the ripe age of 26) once told me she was leaving in a week…I asked her if this was for ever and she nodded…only to add with a shrug: ‘unless I need the money’.
To summarize, I don’t believe these girls have no alternative to doing sexwork. That alternative just isn’t that alluring.
I haven’t ever felt guilty. When you are in a club, from the way the girls act (they’re definately the boss in the club), you wouldn’t think it was possible that girls were doing this against their will (eventhough you should know better)…
For some reason I decided to split up this quote, don’t ask me why. The majority of these clubs are located outside the city or on a ‘business park’ amongst other industry, there is only a few small clubs that are in residential areas and I don’t think any clubs are in a ‘city centre’. It is usually a 20 minute ride from the centre. If you want to see where they are exactly - out of interest, not with the intend of visiting -, use google maps. (I don’t think it is a good idea to mention names here).
The clubs (mostly different ones though) should have been around back then. i think the first one opened in the early seventies. The Frankfurt Hbf area is pretty ‘special’ as well, I think it’s the biggest ‘window area’ (ok doors, but it’s essentially the same) in Europe.
The Amsterdam window scene is mostly for tourists and one time visitors (usually from the UK). I think most Dutch guys that go to the windows go to Alkmaar, Utrecht, The Hague or even Antwerp…I did at least. I must say that for me the thrill has totally disappeared since I found the clubs, I strolled past the windows a few times, but wasn’t at all tempted to go inside.
You mostly speak German and English (some clubs are adament that the girls learn German). Dutch girls will be very popular with Dutch bears, because there is something exiting about speaking you own language with a girl (don’t know why). Similarly German girls are very popular with German bears. With other bears, I’ll speak Dutch, English or German…depending on where they are from.
It is just like SDMB, you register (actually, you can only read posts if you are registered). The forum is very easily found through google (a bit too easy really). The forum is split up in subforums for the more popular (about 40?) clubs (also the flatrate clubs) and there is a general area where you can discuss what clubs are best, whether standards are slipping, whether clubs should be allowed to have mandatory ‘packages’, etc. Here you also have polls, links to funny movies, newsbits about prostitution and whatever you can think of.
Each club with it’s own subforum will have a general thread (where people discuss general club stuff and bears can post reports of entire visits - so from entrance till exit). Some have a faq thread about the club and then there are countless threads about the individual girls, discussing services that are offered…if it was any good; but also whether they are on vacation, or are back in the club, or if they moved to a different club (then the thread gets moved to the other subforum as well).
The three biggest clubs near the Dutch border (where most of the forum members go) also have a ‘live thread’ where people that are visiting the club post on the girls that are present, whether the atmosphere or barbeque is any good. People that haven’t decided to go yet, might ask if a particular girl is present…and get an answer. And two of these even have a list with all the working girls and what services they offer, this list is provided by the clubs, who ask the girls to fill out the forms (they are not obligated to actually follow this though, it is more like a general idea of the services).
About 15-20 clubs provide a few free entry passes each month that are raffled off to the forum members that have suscribed to that specific raffle. In the same vain there are a handfull of free passes handed out to the ‘best reviews’ in any given month; the winner becomes the jury for the next month.
A nice feature is a meeting point, where bears can anounce what club they are visiting on a given day, so you can meet up. There is also a carpool thread and a thread on hotel accomodation near the clubs.
That’s pretty much it I guess.
In general you don’t tip, you ‘reward’ good service by staying longer or going with a girl again. I actually have gotten into the habit (well, I did it three or four times) to add cum in mouth to the proceedings if it is a really fun and good session (only in NRW though)…usually these endings get to be pretty memorable as well. In Hessen I must admit - I’ll admit it, I’m cheap - that I often do tip a bit, but the girls don’t ‘expect’ it. They usually have to look twice and give you an extra big kiss goodbye (and won’t mind trying to get you to the room again). The thing with tipping is that girls will start expecting it from you, I once got a hurt ‘was something wrong’ when I didn’t tip (while I had done so a few hours earlier)…while the point was that I just had 50’s left and no smaller notes.
I’ll assure you that the non-europeans tip the most, proprietors or not;) Most non-europeans (Americans, but also Asian guys) are also more likely to be taken for a ride. You should always prepare and say you have been to a club before. Most girls are honest, but some will make use of novices. That’s my guess (I’ve seen it happen) at least, even on my first visit I was well researched and knew the ‘rules’.
No, you can do what you want. In some clubs this leads to groups of men coming for the free beer, without any intention of going with a girl. Bears and girls don’t like this trend. Some would propose to double the entry fee and have the first session included, but this isn’t likely to happen.
I sort of gave you an answer above ;), I’m not entirely sure the powers that be would approve of me advertising specific clubs (are you guys noticing how paranoid I am about the thread being shut down? I wonder what’s up with that:dubious:).
You aren’t spamming. You started a really interesting thread and someone asked what your favorite clubs are. It’d be as if I started a thread about Mexican food and someone asked me what my favorite Mexican place was (Armando’s). Go for it. I’ll have to keep your answers in mind in case I ever visit Germany. In fact I have a friend who loves going to Germany as often as possible (really).
It’ll have to wait for a while (sorry), as I’ll have to go in a minute…but I’ll get to it!
I guess it is considered embarrassing, I really don’t think it is different here from the US, it is sort of admitting you can’t get girls to have sex with you without paying (eventhough I see it a bit differently, that’s what it looks like). I don’t worry about it, but I’m not planning on sharing anytime soon. If a friend or family member would find out it would be a bit weird, but I don’t think anyone would ‘break off all contacts’ or anything like that.
Thanks to ITD to pointing out that you all can use the “report” button to summon us. I had been reading this thread but hadn’t gotten as far as the mod summons. I think the thread has mostly been decorously handled, so it probably won’t be a problem. HOWEVER, give us a little time to discuss amongst ourselves. Someone will be back with the ruling.
Thanks for your patience (and to you, polar bear, for going on and reading the rules!).
You’ve mentioned a couple times about the overall hotness of the women. I assume you are speaking of the classic big tits, nice ass type hotness. But obviously that is not everyone’s ideal. I can’t remember the name of the book, but a Madame wrote about her time running a brothel in the U.S. (illegal, but tolerated). She wrote about one women that came with a slight frame and little tits to speak of. The Madame didn’t think she would last, but it turned out she was ridiculously popular. She had the girl next door/teenage virgin look, while the rest came doled up in high heels and revealing dresses.
That’s a long winded way of asking, are there girls for different tastes?
How, generally speaking, are fetishes handled? For example, is there a system set up to say I want X or for women to advertise I’ll do X?
How do other Polar Bears view fetishes? Are there things that will make them say, “I know we’re all paying girls half our age for sex, but that’s fucked up!”?
For those that don’t get the joke, to sow and to sew are different words. The former means to spread seed and the latter is joining two pieces of fabric with thread.
I think he was more worried about violating the “No Dear Penthouse” rules than the promoting illegal behaviors rules.
My questions for polar bear:
If somehow these clubs suddenly became illegal, would you stop going? If so, would you get over it fairly easily/quickly, or would you be bummed out about it for a while? What about if you no longer had the money to frequent them? Would you cut other things out of your life so you could keep going?
Second question - you’ve mentioned the windows in the Netherlands, and how you find the sauna clubs in Germany much better suited to you. However, some of us don’t know anything about how the windows in the Netherlands work either - can you explain how that system goes, and why you don’t like it as much?
I don’t have any questions (because every time I think of one, someone else asks it) but I just wanted to say thanks for starting this thread. Like others have said, it really is fascinating.
This, I don’t understand, probably because I’m female. It doesn’t bother you that yeah, the girls are beautiful, but the only way you could get them to have sex with you was to pay them to do it? Is there ever a time where you’re with one of them and think to yourself “damn, I’m paying for something that other men can get for free?” Or is the experience of having sex with a beautiful girl worth it, even if she had to be paid to do it?
Other than the fact that they’re beautiful … what’s the appeal? Are they better in bed, too, or is it simply that they’re willing to do things that (many) regular girls won’t do?
