Hell, I’m a girl who gets to have great sex with my hot husband any time I want, and even I see the appeal.
Private club where you drink all day, hang out in a hot tub, watch porn, and are surrounded by beautiful women begging to fuck you? Seriously, that’s a pretty easy fantasy to get into.
I just read through the thread for a bit and I’m quite shocked. So. Many. Typos! Not to mention misspellings and gramatical errors. Thanks for being lenient about this, I’ll try to better myself.
While waiting for the white smoke about the anecdotes, don’t expect too much. It’s not like every club visit leaves me with pages of material. There are a few ‘funny’ stories, but mostly there are a lot of ‘WTF, I can’t believe this place is for real’ moments. I might mention these anyway, since they aren’t really explicit ‘Dear Penthouse’ experiences.
I didn’t read the whole thread but I searched for keywords and I’m not sure this has been asked:
In America, what I gather from popular culture (not being an “icebear” myself) is that there are 3 types of prostitution – the barely existent legal kind in places like the Bunny Ranch in Vegas (which is usually very expensive), the street-walker kind fueled by addicts looking for drug money, and the make-believe version in movies like Pretty Woman. How prevalent is drug use/addiction among the population of German working girls?
I read the rules again and you’re right. I can’t see what rule I’d be breaking by telling you my favorite club. First though, I have to point out that it all depende on what your preferences are. Do you want the welness to be good; do you expect good food; do you want the prettiest girls; what kind of girls; do you like being approached by the girls; do you want the girls to be totally nude; does the thought of seeing other people having sex in public bother you; do you care about the pricing; etc. This truly is IMHO.
My favorite club is FKK Oase ([noparse]www.fkk-oase.de[/noparse]). The food is attrocious, the beer ridiculously expensive, the hygiene is seriously lacking and they’re always out of towels… but the girls are incredible;) In my opinion they have the best looking girls and almost all sessions I’ve had here were memorable (for all the good reasons). This is one of the biggest clubs, and usually there will be well more than a 100 naked girls walking around (weekends). There is always a party atmosphere and the girls will do their best to convince you to take them to a room. This isn’t really a club for newbees however; staying grounded here takes a bit of experience. It also isn’t the club for you if you just want to peoplewatch; even if you don’t take any girls to the room you will not be able to look your wife in the eye when you return.
I have to say your assumption is wrong. There are all kinds of girls and bears have different tastes. The bigger clubs will have something for everyone, and petite girls aren’t uncommon at all. It is funny that you thought this, since my experience with American and British bears is that they mostly seem to prefer the big breasted porn star types. On the previously mentioned forum there are a bunch of very regular club visitors that always go for the same type of girl and it has become a way to describe a girl in reviews. So it wil say something like ‘she was a real polar bear girl’ or ‘I saw a beautiful treisgirl, anyone know her name?’ and most readers will know exactly what the girl will look like:cool:.
I personally go for slender, natural looking brunettes with modest breasts. Girls you wouldn’t see in any (American) porn movies. I also don’t care for the ‘pros’, girls that have an attitude like they been doing the job for a while (and are probably great in bed). To put it like this: I will very quickly fall for a girl that softly asks me if I’d like to spend some time with her, but would never go with a girl that starts by telling me how she is going to rock my world (usually in more explicit terms).
I actually just recently figured out I have such a specific ‘type’, outside the club I feel I never really had a fixed preference (maybe because personalities play a bigger role), but I’ve noticed that in the club I always end up with the same type of girl. I’m also very lucky about the timing, since the majority of Romanian girls fit the profile I just mentioned. That’s also why I don’t really like the clubs that are said to have a ‘diverse lineup’, since it usually just means less Romanian brunettes. I’ve been to a few of these clubs and can honestly say the leggy blonds are gorgeous…I just find that I’m often looking if there isn’t some petite brunette hiding somewhere.
For fetishes the clubs probably aren’t the best place (depending on what you mean by fethishes), I don’t know of any club with a large assortment of whips and bondage gear.
Icebears among themselves in general aren’t that squeemish. If you are about to go with a girl and a bear tells you he just came in her mouth, most guys will say: ‘I hope she used some mouthwash’ and kiss her on the lips. This is a fabricated example of course, but I think it sums up the attitude of most bears. If we move to watersports (or worse) you might get some weird looks. If you look for these fetishes, you probably have the best chance with the more experienced 30 (or even 40) somethings.
I got it. I wasn’t sure about the spelling either, but took the easy way out and just copied what the other poster wrote:p.
I forgot to ask, what are watersports?
“Fun” with urine.
Exactly, in the clubs it is movie theater that shows porn, with beds or couches that see quite a bit of action. Sometimes when there are big sportevents, they will show the sports in the Kino; one club even has two kinos, one for porn and on for sports. When the game is finished they usually switch back to porn immediately. So it happens that you are in a kino full with bears and the moment the final wistle blows, you’re confronted with close up of girl getting a double penetration:eek:
Never been to an American brothel and given what I heard about the prices, I don’t think I ever will. In general I don’t like the set up of most clubs (also here in the Netherlands), where the girls parade themselves and you chose one. I like the banter and hanging out (with girls and guys) that happens when you aren’t even thinking of sex (those full 2 minutes a day anyway :D).
Yep, I was talking about the Penthouse rule.
If these clubs would become illegal, they would cease to exist. The scale is far too big to hide. If they would become illegal officially, but be tolerated in practise (like soft drugs in the Netherlands) I would continue to go. In general I think I’d be too much of a chicken to visit prostitutes if it is really illegal (with cops trying to bust you etc.). If this would happen (don’t really see it happening any time soon), I’d be bummed out…but move on pretty quickly, it is not like you are breaking up with somebody or anything.
Ok, but I’m a bit biased. There are guys that have been to the clubs, but still like the windows. I don’t get it, but each to his own.
In the case of the windows (or the German laufhauser and Eros centers for that matter) the girls pay a daily fee to rent a small room (with a window) in Germany these rooms are usually in a multistory building and the girls stand outside their door in the corridor to ‘catch’ a guy. I don’t know about Germany, but in the Netherlands the rent is supposed to be between 150-200 Euros a day (or daypart).
The standard service usually exists of a blowjob and sex, both with condom. Prices in many places are 50 Euros and you’re expected to be in and out in 20 minutes. In many German places the price can also be 30 and in The Hague (NL) there is a street where the standard prize is 25…in these cheaper areas, you are expected to be out quicker (15 minutes max). If you want more time or extras (when possible) you have to pay more. Kissing is rare and will definately kost you more, as will going down on a girl.
If you want to talk about exploitation of the girls, look no further than the legal ‘landlords’ that ask these prices for tiny rooms, for some girls their first 6-8 clients are just to pay the rent. Competition (with cheaper rooms) isn’t possible, because of zoning regulations. I’ll let this rest now, but it is a bit of pet peeve for me.
The procedure is a basically that you walk up and down the street (or the corridor) and look for a girl you like, when you want to go inside you walk up to the door. You say hi, check the price (and maybe ask for extras) and if you reach an agreement you go inside. You pay upfront and while you are both undressing you may or may not ask some basic questions, you then wash your penis in the sink…and lay down on the bed. Afterwards, you get dressed and leave.
I don’t think I need to spent too much time explaining why I like the clubs better. If I’m honest you sometimes do have girls that you chat a bit with afterwards, but since you hardly talk to them beforehand, you don’t even know if she speaks Dutch, English or German on a conversational level. Also, after 20 minutes you’re on your way home.
I actually think this question is one of the hardest for me to answer. You are of course right Renee, but giving that answer is taking the easy way out.
It never bothers me that I have to pay for the sex, it also isn’t like you are waiting for her to count the money, until she says ‘allright then’ and lays down while watching the alarmclock.
Let me try to explain. In a club you basically interact with guys and girls, just as you might in a real healthclub/sauna/bar. Some people are there professionaly (health instructors/barmen/masseuses/the girls) and others are there as clients (the girls are clients to off course). Given what club you are in, it is ‘normal’ that girls walk up to you and hit on you, just like that it is ‘normal’ in a bar that guys may hit on a girl. If you decide to go with a girl it is (or becomes) ‘normal’ that you pay for it. While I don’t want to equate the two - and I’m definately NOT saying ‘all women are prostitutes’ - this isn’t that different from it being ‘normal’ for a guy to buy a girl a drink in a bar.
What I’m trying to compare is that in both settings it is normal to the guy that he is paying. So for us bears (when in the club) paying after sex is part of what we consider ‘normal’ procedure in a club. Just like I don’t think it is weird to offer a girl a drink when in a bar. There are many things that are different in a club, for instance I rarely see girls walking around naked in a bar (maybe in a sauna though:smack:) and I never see a guy or girl puke in a saunaclub. To recap, the ‘norms’ in a bar are that you drink, hit on girls, buy a girl a drink when you like her and sometimes people will get sick because they drank too much. The norms in a club are that the girls walk around naked (or almost naked), they hit on you and if you accept her advances you go with her and pay afterwards. People will adjust what they consider ‘normal’ to the setting they are in; people will find it strange and might complain if you’re drinking beer while being on a stairmaster in a healthclub right? Maybe I’m full of it, but I think the above holds up for me pretty well; you won’t believe how quickly you get used to being around naked girls that try to get you in the sack (a bit of a shame really).
While sex is the main thing, there is more to the clubs. Sometimes you feel like you are in one of those dreamsequences you see in teen comedies, except that the girls are nude (R ratings are not an issue in real life). Very few men can get this for free.
While I admitted earlier that I started going to windows because I wanted sex, but none of the hassle (at that point everything relationship-related was a hassle to me). [For many guys (especially if they are divorced) that go to clubs a lot (as a life style), this is the most important reason. With one bear writing: ‘Like all men I pay a lot for women, I just choose to spread it over many women and not 1’.] I nowadays go because the women are beautiful. I don’t kid myself, these girls probably wouldn’t be interested in me if I met them on the street; by paying a small sum I get to have a lot fun with them. So yes, being with a pretty girl is worth it for me.
Icebears have different reasons for visiting the clubs. Some just want to get a blowjob (they can have sex without a condom at home) and are only interested in how well she does this (they don’t care about the looks that much). Others want to have amazing sex, so the look for a girl that is great in the sack, without caring too much what she looks like. And some guys just want the prettiest girl they can find (this is called an Optick-Fick). These are just the extremes, most bears will be somewhere inbetween, but priorities definately differ. To answer your question directly: yes, some girls are better in bed (by a mile) and most girls will do stuff that girlfriends (often) won’t; and more importantly, some bears really care bout this.
For me, I don’t really care how good a girl is in bed (maybe a bit of an exageration). I just want to have fun with a girl I think is beautiful. As long as she is smiling a lot and joking and we’re having fun, I don’t care if her blowjob technique is average. One of my best experiences was with a girl that was clumsy wile putting on the condom…so she ripped it and had to get another one, hit me in the head with her knee when I was going down on her and almost fell of the bed during sex. We had a ball. Sometimes you’re lucky and she really knows what she is doing, but for me nothing is as important as the fun element.
You mentioned that you don’t really look for girls when you’re out with friends. Do you think, if you ever decide to start dating or settle down, that your club experiences will affect how you interact with potential partners? (eg. Will it make it easier to talk to women, will it affect your standards for attractiveness, etc?)I
When you say “go to a room with the woman”, what are the rooms like in the clubs? I’m sure this varies by club, but if you could just give your range of experience, that would be good.
Do the rooms just come with a bed only, and that’s it?
Do the rooms have a bunch of pillows?
Are there other pieces of furniture in the rooms?
Are there “theme” rooms? Maybe a jungle room, or a harem room, or an igloo room, or something like that?
Are there rooms with benches, chairs, or swings?
What about mirrors? Are they common or rare in the rooms?
What’s the most interesting room you’ve used?
If you were ever in a relationship again, would you tell the woman in question?
Do these kinds of clubs exist for gay men? I know you’re straight but it seems like you’re interested in the whole culture so I thought you might know. Are gay brothels legal?
To expand on jharvey963’s post…
Are there maids who run around from room to room spiffying them up between guests, changing sheets and emptying condoms from the trash?
Thank you for the answers, Herr Icebear.
What is the political opinion of these brothels? Do most German parties support keeping them legalized
How do the churches (or for that matter synagogues and mosques) of Germany think of these brothels-are there moral condemnations of them and/or do church members help reach out to those in brothels?
Danke,.
Honestly, I wouldn’t know. I know some girls use drugs, but to which extent? I am pretty sure that no girls (or very few) work in the business to facilitate a habit. If they use drugs, it is probably because they’re young girls that have a lot of money (which they aren’t used to) and it gives a rush, especially for those boring long days with little business. Despite the legal status of these clubs, the girls are probably is an environment where it is easier to get drugs than is the case for cashiers in your local supermarket. A few girls have told me they occasionally use drugs, but that is all in a very recreational setting. This also has to do with me being Dutch; many girls will get a dreamy look in their eyes and say something like ‘Ah, Amsterdam…’. Marijuana will come up. I usually joke about them not remembereing anything of the visit, which they often admit. I don’t think this is very different from how other young people react when they find out I’m Dutch.
Now some related anecdotes:
The girl who told me she occasionally used coke (which isn’t really a poor man’s drug, now is it) did so in an anecdote of her last trip to Holland (as escort) where she really only needed to party with the clients (drink champagne, have fun, do coke) without any sex taking place, because the guys couldn’t get them up anymore. The way she talked about it later on (have I mentioned how some girls can be rally open up to you?), it gave me the impression of a functioning recreational coke user (like yuppies in the eighties). But she also admitted occasionally doing a line if she was having a day that seemed to go on forever; ‘but not often’ she said with a big smile (and hug) when I gave her a sort of worried look.
I once spoke to girl that seemed sort of absent, I think she was either stoned or drunk. It was hard to keep a conversation going because she was so jittery, needless to say I wished her a good night and moved on pretty swiftly. This girl wasn’t one of the girls that works every day though, in the part of the conversation that was comprehensible she told me she only worked weekends. So not really a story of a girl stuck in the club all week, looking for an escape.
When I was sitting with another Dutch bear at a table in the garden one time, we were joined by a German girl and bear, the latter of which started to roll a joint. They offered us a hit, but we told him we didn’t see the need to smoke here in Germany when we can do it legally at home. By the way, this is also something that often happens when I meet people abroad.
I think I forgot to answer the second part. I think these club visits should be seen as a hobby and hobbies cost money (granted, this is an expensive hobby). If I hadn’t gone to the clubs, there would have been quite a bit of money I could have spent on something else…but the same can be said if I hadn’t learned how to snowboard. I keep my finances in mind when planning visits, so if I don’t have money to go, I don’t go. I’m definitely not going into debt for clubs visits and if my income would decrease, so would my amount of clubvisits. I can see how the clubs can be ‘addictive’, but I’ve never been that prone to addictions…probably because I’m too cheap;).
Whether I would give up other things in my life, I probably have already. But this is just not going to concerts, clubs, restaurants, etc. as often as I would otherwise. But this isn’t just a quid pro quo thing, I always look at my general finances (and future expenditures) before deciding on these things. So if I know I have a trip planned, I know how much money I need to set appart…and that might mean I’m not in the position to go to a concert anymore. At the same time it happens that I will have to pick a later date (when setting up a visit), because I just bought a concert ticket/went to restaurant too often/etc.
I’ll get to all the other questions next time!
What kind of background music do they most commonly play in these clubs, if anything?
I do not have any questions for the OP, but I too want to express my appreciation to the OP for starting this thread. Very fascinating and intriguing, lots of good nonjudgemental questions being asked. Kudos polar bear for trying your damndest to keep up with the constant flow of questions. I don’t know if I’d do half as good a job as you have.
I’d like to second this.
Most of us reading are from the US and our perception of prostitution/brothels/etc. is really skewed due to our experience with it here. The only place I know of where it is legal here is in Nevada with the brothels there.
In the most of the rest of the US, it is a fringe activity where it can be very dangerous for the women who engage in it. Many women are in it because they are desperate - for drugs, because pimps force them into it, etc. They take the risk of being beaten or killed. Currently in my town there is a trial going on of a man who is believed to have murdered a string of prostitutes. This happens because so many of these women live on the edge of society and predators take advantage because they feel that they won’t be caught - the victims have severed ties with their families and are willing to go to isolated places. It can take time before victims are identified. I don’t know if prostitution were legalized if that would help here or not, but I’d like to think that it might since then there would be more regulation.
That said, I still personally feel pretty bad for those Romanian girls - their choices in life are limited due to their circumstances. If working in a club is something they love and want to do for awhile, great. If they can use their looks for a short period of time to earn money so they can go back to their families and help them, get an education, etc. in an environment that isn’t abusive, then that’s certainly better than having no alternatives. But I think it would be better if they had other alternatives from the outset. And I think any of us who have mothers, sisters, daughters, etc. would feel the same. I personally am grateful that I have never had to make a choice like this to make a living. I would find it very hard. I am also grateful to my parents that they raised me to be able to make a living independent of any other person.
None of this should be construed as being judgemental of the OP, BTW. That’s why I quoted Bee’s post. This whole thread has been very informative. And I hope he decides one day that he wants to have a one-on-one committed relationship again at one point. He seems like a guy who really knows himself and what he wants, and any girl who lands him if he comes to that conclusion should consider herself fortunate 