Ask the Transsexual Woman

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

@Broomstick

Well, I think it gets back to having to prove yourself over and over.

As I’ve mentioned, I’m a bit low-voiced for a cisgirl. I sometimes get a “sir” over the phone. Particularly in winter clothing, I have occasionally been mistaken for a small man. For me it is no big, actually amusing at times, and about half the time I think it’s the men who are more upset about it than me.

This is vastly different from Una’s circumstance.

Yeah, this is the female equivalent of me :). As a youth I grew my hair long, and I didn’t have much facial hair, and I have delicate features, and a relatively high voice. I still get “ma’amed” on the phone occasionally, and it used to be consistent. There was about a decade where if I was in a public bathroom and another man walked in and saw me at the sink, chances were good that he’d do a double-take, step out of the bathroom, check the “men” sign on the door, and walk back in staring at me suspiciously; I had to learn to make eye contact and grunt and nod in a manly fashion at such guys in order to assure them that I wasn’t a lady in the wrong room :).

And yeah, it was annoying. But I learned to let it roll off my back–because, as you suggest, I had nothing to prove.

Una asked earlier:

Sometimes I’m asked “how can you possibly say you feel like a woman when you aren’t one, you weren’t raised one, you didn’t have that social upbringing, etc.” My response is typically one of two - first, how do you know what gender you are? If a fairy came by with a magic wand and reversed your genitals but changed nothing else, would your brain magically change? Or would you be the same person you were before, but with different parts? What if you were forced to go to work in a skirt and heels (presupposing you’re male) - would that change your brain, or would you still be a guy? How would you know? Wouldn’t you just, well, know?

And the thing is, for me, I wouldn’t just know. Being a man is not something I’m uncomfortable with, but it’s also really, really low on the list of things that I think make me who I am. I think of myself as a geek, as an intellectual, as a baker, as a smartass, as a liberal, as a parent (well, okay, as a dad, but really as a parent); being a man isn’t part of my identity, not really, and if I were changed to a woman I’d find it an inconvenience, but an interesting inconvenience. I really don’t think that I’d experience gender dysphoria, because my gender isn’t important to me, I don’t think.

So it was hard for me, for a long time, to accept the idea of transsexuals as something more than a cultural fluke: I used to think that it was a response to cultural gender norms, not something independent of culture. It took awhile, and reading posts by Una and others, to convince me that my own experience of gender was a minority experience.

As I understand it, most folks experience gender identity much more strongly than I do. It’s a part of who they are just as much as being a geek is part of who I am, more so perhaps as it’s more biologically situated. I feel like my understanding of gender dysphoria is equivalent to a blind person’s understanding of a rainbow. It’s not something I can viscerally relate to, but I’d be an idiot to deny its reality just because I lack the senses to experience it myself.

[psychobunny]

I just wanted to say how much I appreciated the article on the transgender brain. It obviously took a lot of time and effort to put it together and it was a good summary for me as a medical professional. (Not to nitpick but the only other case I’d include would be true 46XX/46XY chimeras; but I must admit it’s partially because I’m fascinated by chimeras, especially XX/XX and XY/XY chimeras since the majority of these are never diagnosed and only come to light when DNA testing is inconsistent with known reality; as far as I know there are only two well-documented cases).

Also, not to linger over your voice, but I have to agree with others here that if I heard it I would assume you are female. I did catch that typically feminine “questioning” tone at the end of your sentences and wondered whether it was something you deliberately tried to do. What is interesting to me is that many women in the sciences have been told to avoid particularly “female” characteristics such as breathiness and raising the pitch at the end of a phrase since it comes across as too tentative and not assertive enough. I would imaging it is much harder to strike a balance when you are trying to sound feminine but also maintain your authority.

One final thing.

Do not ask about <snip> “was it hard to walk in heels.”

I ask this of every woman I know, constantly. “How the %^@# do you walk in those heels?” comes out of my mouth at least once a week, because a) I really want to know and b) I’m jealous that I just can’t do it. Is it not OK for me to treat transwomen the same as I treat all other women? Would it be offensive if I addressed it to a group of women?

[eclectic_wench]

Una, major respect to you. Life is hard enough, and adolescence in particular is hard enough, without the horrific extra stuff you had to deal with. Huge respect to you for surviving it, refusing to let go of who you are, and becoming that person to the full.

@psychobunny

I ask this of every woman I know, constantly. “How the %^@# do you walk in those heels?” comes out of my mouth at least once a week, because a) I really want to know and b) I’m jealous that I just can’t do it. Is it not OK for me to treat transwomen the same as I treat all other women? Would it be offensive if I addressed it to a group of women?

I’m not Una and I’m not trans, so I can’t speak for anyone who is, and if I’m wrong someone can correct me. But it seems to me that that question carries different weight depending on whether it’s addressed to a cis woman or a trans woman. The subtext is, ‘Didn’t you find it difficult to learn to do something that’s part of our society’s expectations of female identity?’ If you ask me that*, then it’s not a big deal - as Broomstick said above, I’ve never had to fight to be accepted as female, so the assumption that I would have difficulty with something that’s a common marker of femaleness is no big deal.

If you ask a trans woman the same question, it could carry the implication that you wouldn’t expect her to be able to do something that’s commonly associated with femaleness. If you imply that to someone who’s had to fight every step of the way to be accepted as female, it carries a whole different weight.

Again, it’s like Broomstick being called ‘sir’. A few times when I was in my twenties, I got taken for a young teenage boy. For me, that was funny, because for me being female wasn’t something hard-won and precious; I could afford to take it for granted, hold it lightly. For a trans woman, that’s not the case.

*You won’t. I can’t walk in those heels.

[Una_Persson]

@llcoolbj77

Una, thank you for this thread. It has been insightful, to say the least. I also want to say thank you. Many moons ago, but after your transition, you participated in a thread and talked quite a bit about your life. I had literally just been reading it when, BAM…

I had been working all day, grocery shopping after work with my toddler, come home to an empty house with shit all over the counter tops (and no where to place the groceries, or the dogs would eat them by the time I got them all in the house), do I bring in the groceries, leave the kid in the car seat, get the kid, leave him in the house while I get groceries… AHHHH!

I see my neighbor, Con, milling about on his bike. Goddammit, he’s gonna want to talk to me. I have no time to talk to him. Yes he’s coming over… is he wearing lipstick?

Con comes over to tell me that there will be some changes at his house. He is transitioning from male to female. I give you, Una, all the credit for what happened next. I hugged her, asked her what she would like me to call her, and told her just how impressed I was with her strength and courage. We talked for 45 minutes.

I could not have done this, or even reacted moderately well, without knowing you and your story here.

Connie and I talk now whenever we pass on the way to and from work. She is doing great, and looking great, but is dealing with the many family struggles which are common (she has three boys, 12, 16, and 20). I have offered her legal help if she has any issues at work, but so far, so good.

I realize this post smacks of sneak bragging, but really I do thank you for fighting my ignorance. You are a beautiful person, and woman (jealous). I am also going to print out this thread for my husband… who still insists on calling Connie by her old name in private (which is still rude to me). Maybe a little Una will make him see the light as well.

It’s not sneak bragging. I am so very happy that I made a small difference in your life, and Connie’s. And Here’s hoping for your husband to see the light.

[Una_Persson]

@JRDelirious

This thread is superbly informative, enlightening, moving and a fascinating read. Thank you for starting it, for us, for yourself and for all who face the challenge of being who they are. Never mind this Board (to which your contributions are of the highest caliber), Una, you make this World better by being in it.

Thank you, that is nice of you to say.

@Lamia

I used to live in Japan, and I think “newhalf” is specific to Japan. It is a slang term derived from the use of “half” (the English word) to refer to half-Japanese biracial people. “Newhalf” thus suggests someone who is half man and half woman, and seems to be used as an umbrella term for not only transsexuals but also drag queens and even femmy gay guys. I’m not sure if it’s used for butch lesbians or FTM transsexuals. A “newhalf show” is basically a drag show, although the only one I attended was pretty different from drag shows I’ve seen in the US. It was more what I’d imagine an old-fashioned Vegas show to be like. Here’s a promo video (mildly NSFW due to skimpy costumes, but no nudity) that I found on YouTube for the same nightclub I visited in Tokyo.

I did once have a Japanese friend tell me she was confused as to the difference between “newhalf” and “gay”. Another friend who was present got onto her a bit for saying “newhalf”, as she considered both this and “half” to be derogatory. However, when I asked another friend about this later she said “newhalf” wasn’t considered offensive, “That’s just what they’re called”, and that if someone were trying to be offensive they’d say “okama” (literally a kind of pot, but as an insult roughly equivalent to “fag” in American English). I didn’t know any out LGBT people in Japan though, so I can’t say how the term “newhalf” is viewed by the people it is used to describe. It’s my impression that within Japan the term is commonly used without any derogatory intent, but it carries some connotations that I think trans folks might understandably consider problematic.

Wow, thank you for the detailed explanation! I live within a rich lexicon of gender and sexuality terminology, and now it just grew. I will need to look this up and see what trans people in Japan think.

[Una_Persson]

@Left_Hand_of_Dorkness

And the thing is, for me, I wouldn’t just know. Being a man is not something I’m uncomfortable with, but it’s also really, really low on the list of things that I think make me who I am. I think of myself as a geek, as an intellectual, as a baker, as a smartass, as a liberal, as a parent (well, okay, as a dad, but really as a parent); being a man isn’t part of my identity, not really, and if I were changed to a woman I’d find it an inconvenience, but an interesting inconvenience. I really don’t think that I’d experience gender dysphoria, because my gender isn’t important to me, I don’t think.

So it was hard for me, for a long time, to accept the idea of transsexuals as something more than a cultural fluke: I used to think that it was a response to cultural gender norms, not something independent of culture. It took awhile, and reading posts by Una and others, to convince me that my own experience of gender was a minority experience.

Welcome to the gender-variant world, which apparently you’ve always inhabited.

As I understand it, most folks experience gender identity much more strongly than I do. It’s a part of who they are just as much as being a geek is part of who I am, more so perhaps as it’s more biologically situated. I feel like my understanding of gender dysphoria is equivalent to a blind person’s understanding of a rainbow. It’s not something I can viscerally relate to, but I’d be an idiot to deny its reality just because I lack the senses to experience it myself.

I can appreciate that.

[Una_Persson]

@psychobunny

I just wanted to say how much I appreciated the article on the transgender brain. It obviously took a lot of time and effort to put it together and it was a good summary for me as a medical professional. (Not to nitpick but the only other case I’d include would be true 46XX/46XY chimeras; but I must admit it’s partially because I’m fascinated by chimeras, especially XX/XX and XY/XY chimeras since the majority of these are never diagnosed and only come to light when DNA testing is inconsistent with known reality; as far as I know there are only two well-documented cases).

Thank you, I’m glad you liked my article. I tried very hard to write a comprehensive review which would be fair and scientific. I left out including some intersex conditions and karytoype disorders (such as XXXX) just because they are incredibly rare.

Also, not to linger over your voice, but I have to agree with others here that if I heard it I would assume you are female. I did catch that typically feminine “questioning” tone at the end of your sentences and wondered whether it was something you deliberately tried to do.

Yes, but only slightly. I tended to talk that way in my boy voice, but I do emphasize it a little.

What is interesting to me is that many women in the sciences have been told to avoid particularly “female” characteristics such as breathiness and raising the pitch at the end of a phrase since it comes across as too tentative and not assertive enough. I would imaging it is much harder to strike a balance when you are trying to sound feminine but also maintain your authority.

I may speak with different inflection when I’m trying to sway people or giving a lecture. I have been told I speak with “infectious enthusiasm” a lot of times.

I ask this of every woman I know, constantly. “How the %^@# do you walk in those heels?” comes out of my mouth at least once a week, because a) I really want to know and b) I’m jealous that I just can’t do it. Is it not OK for me to treat transwomen the same as I treat all other women? Would it be offensive if I addressed it to a group of women?

I walked by practice. Long-term practice with my eyes on the prize. I started small and worked my way up. It helped that I have feet which are dead-on the average for a cisgender woman of my height (8.5-9, actually about average for all American women), so I have lots of shoes to choose from. I learned great footwork from years of fencing, so I could keep my balance and move properly. And I had the money to buy quality shoes which fit well and look well.

And well…it’s just that it’s a common question which carries an implication of “you poor man, how are you able to stuff your mephitic hooves into dainty women’s shoes and ape the grace that real women have?”

[Una_Persson]

@eclectic_wench

Una, major respect to you. Life is hard enough, and adolescence in particular is hard enough, without the horrific extra stuff you had to deal with. Huge respect to you for surviving it, refusing to let go of who you are, and becoming that person to the full.

Thank you so much!

But it seems to me that that question carries different weight depending on whether it’s addressed to a cis woman or a trans woman. The subtext is, ‘Didn’t you find it difficult to learn to do something that’s part of our society’s expectations of female identity?’ If you ask me that*, then it’s not a big deal - as Broomstick said above, I’ve never had to fight to be accepted as female, so the assumption that I would have difficulty with something that’s a common marker of femaleness is no big deal.

If you ask a trans woman the same question, it could carry the implication that you wouldn’t expect her to be able to do something that’s commonly associated with femaleness. If you imply that to someone who’s had to fight every step of the way to be accepted as female, it carries a whole different weight.

Yes, you have it down quite well.

[JCanary]

A friend of mine is transsexual and I would say people notice only about 10% of the time (this could be a biased estimate). When we go out she will not use the women’s bathroom at the bar/club and will just literally hold it the whole time. I know it physically bothers her since you know after so many drinks that girl really has to pee, but I think it mentally bothers her more than she is letting on. What is really strange to me is that when we go to a drag club there are other transsexual/transgender women and it is perfectly normal and acceptable, but she is still uncomfortable (she does use the bathroom, but it is still an awkward experience). Is there something I can do to help with this issue?

[Septima]

I’d imagine there is a difference between “How do you walk in those particular heels that I can tell you are walking in right now, and which must require a special secret womanly superpower to walk in, which I, a mere man, am unable to comprehend”, vs. “How on earth did you, a guy, figure out how the women do that, in order to be like them?”

Then again, I’m a non-heels wearing cisgender girl, and I’m also fascinated by people who can pull off a good pair if heels. Actually, that’s a question: would an admiring “Wow, how do you do that?” and other questions from a woman be equally awkward as from a man? As in “You go girl, you do that (typically female activity) better than I (cisgirl) do”?

[simster]

@Septima

I’d imagine there is a difference between “How do you walk in those particular heels that I can tell you are walking in right now, and which must require a special secret womanly superpower to walk in, which I, a mere man, am unable to comprehend”, vs. “How on earth did you, a guy, figure out how the women do that, in order to be like them?”

Then again, I’m a non-heels wearing cisgender girl, and I’m also fascinated by people who can pull off a good pair if heels. Actually, that’s a question: would an admiring “Wow, how do you do that?” and other questions from a woman be equally awkward as from a man? As in “You go girl, you do that (typically female activity) better than I (cisgirl) do”?

how about -

“you look good in those heels, take long to get used to?”

(assuming of course that saying such does not get you thrown out for harrassment).

[Una_Persson]

@JCanary

A friend of mine is transsexual and I would say people notice only about 10% of the time (this could be a biased estimate). When we go out she will not use the women’s bathroom at the bar/club and will just literally hold it the whole time. I know it physically bothers her since you know after so many drinks that girl really has to pee, but I think it mentally bothers her more than she is letting on. What is really strange to me is that when we go to a drag club there are other transsexual/transgender women and it is perfectly normal and acceptable, but she is still uncomfortable (she does use the bathroom, but it is still an awkward experience). Is there something I can do to help with this issue?

Does she have her gender marker changed on a legal ID? Many times we are frightened of being confronted in the toilets, then having the police called, etc. With a female gender marker that possibility is eliminated.

Are you female? If not, is there a female friend to go with her?

[computergeek]

@Septima

Then again, I’m a non-heels wearing cisgender girl, and I’m also fascinated by people who can pull off a good pair if heels. Actually, that’s a question: would an admiring “Wow, how do you do that?” and other questions from a woman be equally awkward as from a man? As in “You go girl, you do that (typically female activity) better than I (cisgirl) do”?

I’m the same, as in I hate heels and won’t wear them now because I don’t have to. I’d wonder why any transwoman would put herself through that, which I would guess would be something I shouldn’t voice aloud.

[TokyoBayer]

I wonder if one of problems is that people are generally stupid when it comes to small talk.

I’ve known a few former East Germans, and they all say that they get tired of being asked how it was like to be there when the fall happened and how they find it now.

Also, us gaijin (foreigners) get tired of asinine question and comments such as “you’re really good at chopsticks.” Well, yes. I’ve lived in Asia for more than 25 years so I learned how to use those things.

Like really tall people who must hear “how’s the weather up there” everyday. Ha ha. Really funny the first zillion times you hear that.

I know as a foreigner living in East Asia, just being accepted for being me without all of that superficial stuff is the best.

[Ranger_Jeff]

With all the latest talk about high heels, an old adage came to my mind, one that I’ve used myself. “You really can’t feel where the shoe pinches someone else’s foot.” Una, I appreciate your efforts to explain where your foot’s been pinched. And I’m not really thinking about your footwear choices. But you knew that.

[Una_Persson]

@computergeek

I’m the same, as in I hate heels and won’t wear them now because I don’t have to. I’d wonder why any transwoman would put herself through that, which I would guess would be something I shouldn’t voice aloud.

It’s been explained, but the thread is long and it’s easy to miss, also why it’s not exactly a good icebreaker, so to speak.

I do it because that’s how the VIPs at my company dress, I have the legs for it, and they don’t hurt me. I can buy good shoes that don’t hurt and look great.

Some do it because they are trying their best to be hyperfeminine. Others just like the style - to experience the fashion, even with the pain. Others…(shrug).

[Una_Persson]

@TokyoBayer

Also, us gaijin (foreigners) get tired of asinine question and comments such as “you’re really good at chopsticks.” Well, yes. I’ve lived in Asia for more than 25 years so I learned how to use those things.

I think this is the most apt parallel, IMO.

@Ranger_Jeff

With all the latest talk about high heels, an old adage came to my mind, one that I’ve used myself. “You really can’t feel where the shoe pinches someone else’s foot.” Una, I appreciate your efforts to explain where your foot’s been pinched. And I’m not really thinking about your footwear choices. But you knew that.

Thanks, Ranger!

[Odesio]

What happens when a transexual person gets wet or someone feeds him or her after midnight?

Or, more seriously, what’s the flat out strangest question posed to you about transexual individuals?

[purplehorseshoe]

@eclectic_wench

… I’ve never had to fight to be accepted as female … for me being female wasn’t something hard-won and precious; I could afford to take it for granted, hold it lightly. For a trans woman, that’s not the case…

Man, I think you just about nailed an enormous aspect of the issue right there. Well written. Really.

@Una_Persson

… I live within a rich lexicon of gender and sexuality terminology, and now it just grew…

Welllllll … that “fighting ignorance” thing goes both ways, right?

@Una_Persson

…it’s just that it’s a common question which carries an implication of “you poor man, how are you able to stuff your **mephitic**hooves into dainty women’s shoes and ape the grace that real women have?”

(bold mine) Speaking of, I just learned a new word this morning!

@TokyoBayer

I wonder if one of problems is that people are generally stupid when it comes to small talk…

Oh, #$%&*! ain’t that the truth.

[Una_Persson]

@Odesio

What happens when a transexual person gets wet or someone feeds him or her after midnight?

If you make me wet by feeding me something after midnight…I shudder to think of the implications.

Or, more seriously, what’s the flat out strangest question posed to you about transexual individuals?

Well, there are the clueless questions such as “where do you perform” or “are you sure you’re a transsexual/intersex?” I guess the oddest one was “I bet you don’t like pizza anymore, right?” And I said “excuse me?” and they replied “oh, I knew someone who was transgender. When they changed they said they wouldn’t eat pizza ever again. I wondered if that was common.”

Um…okay? They might be referring to the fact that our sense of taste changes on the hormones, but it’s an odd way to ask.

The oddest hurtful question was “would you have sex with an asexual person?” And I stopped, and said “you mean asexual as in ‘doesn’t have sex with other people’?” and they answered “yes.” And I replied “why would I be any different? Why would they have sex with me?” and the answer was:

“Oh, people like you don’t count.” :smack: