Thanks again for doing this thread, I think you’ve helped to dispel a lot of myths about transgendered/intersex people. Personally, I didn’t even know there was a category called “intersex”
What is your relationship with your parents like now? Do you guys talk?
Did you change your name after you transitioned? If so, did you change it to something similar to what you had before? If so, why didn’t you change it to something awesome like Gilgamesh?
Ohhhhhhhh boy. There were some interesting things that happened. Let me bullet some of them.
I started to get picked up by men. A lot. To the point where it was worrying, as some of them could become persistent. And women as well - I looked so much better as my true self than playing “boy”, that I went from having two offers of sex in 25 years, to more than 2 a night on average.
I was sexually harassed 3 times at work in the first 6 months, all by clients. As in “unwanted sexual advances.” Never, ever, by a co-worker. At a technical conference I went to, the same one I’ve been going to for more than a decade, I was asked out on a date 3 times in 1 hour, and was blatantly flirted with numerous times. After my speech, I was surrounded by men from the audience, who were very, very interested in taking me out for dinner and drinks to “talk more about the subject”. Ye-ah, that never happened before when I looked like a boy.
Men give me free stuff, even when I don’t ask for it or want it. Once in Chicago a taxi driver with a bad accent misunderstood my directions, and took me to the wrong place. I told him the address again, and he exploded at me, telling me off. I told him the address again, said I didn’t care what it cost, and that I was sorry but there was no cause to yell at me. Then I started to honestly cry - me, a “hard nosed” scientist, veteran of a thousand trips in so many countries I cannot remember them, and as a result the driver fell over himself apologizing, took me to my destination, and gave me a $50 fare for free. I didn’t care about paying; I was on an expense account and I just wanted to get out of there. But he insisted in delivering me for free, carried my bags to the destination, and refused a tip. That would not have happened if I was a boy, even if I had cried.
Sexism. Even though I’m the leader of my whole business area, clients, even long-term ones, started talking to my assistants almost as if they were the ones who were in charge! When I meet new clients, they no longer assume I’m the manager, they ask me who the manager is. I, even as the entire project manager, have been asked to fetch coffee for a client.
Miscellaneous courtesies. People open, sometimes run to open doors for me. Men offer me their arm or hand getting into or out of cars and planes. At the airport, when I travel, there’s always a man to help me with my luggage. Frequently someone lets me take the first cab, cut in line without me even hinting at wanting anything. I’m typically served first in a restaurant.
The “girl’s club” not only exists, it’s pervasive. It’s astonishing how much, in some situations, there is a bonding together of complete strangers (of women) to laugh, joke, hang out, or even work. When I walk into a store, saleswomen smile at me and greet me differently. Sometimes it’s a subtle sidelong glance we give each other. Women stand together differently, they talk differently, they look at each other differently. Everything about them is subtly different, and I made it a second job to learn the comportment and body language to blend in and not create an uncanny valley effect.
Salesmen ogle me, often times with more of a glance up and down my legs, at my cleavage. We see it, guys, we really do, no matter how subtle you think you are - yes you, over there pretending to look at a sportcoat.
Police and security guards treat me differently. They are more relaxed, smile if I ask them questions, joke with me. The TSA treats me awesomely. When I was playing boy, every time was barking of orders, digging through my stuff, tenseness. As a woman, they don’t seem to give a rats ass what I do. I trot on through and they smile, even make friendly small talk with me.
So many men, and women, assume I’m a scientific and mechanical ignoramus. This has led to some serious talking down to I’ve received at the mechanics, dealing with the plumber, when I was shopping for my motorcycle, etc.
Too many other things to mention.
I visit for work a lot, the pic was taken on some personal time during a visit to two power stations.
Thank you, and that is an awesome and unique question; I’ve never been asked that before. It would depend on the age range of kids, and then I could suggest a couple.
If they are teens, this book has been suggested to me, although I confess I’ve not read it. GLBTQ: The Survival Guide for Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender, and Questioning Teens: Huegel Madrone, Kelly: 9781575423630: Amazon.com: Books
Intersex books for kids…wow…I don’t know. I sure wish I’d had some! One of my i-girl friends sent me an IM just now when I asked her, and she linked to this book.
I have an acquaintance who switched and the hardest thing about pronouns for me is tense. He is the ex wife of a friend of my husband’s - which makes very little sense to parse through a a sentence, but there is is. And I have a hard time knowing which gender to use - to describe him as him now is easy, but to describe the person who was married to my husband’s friend is confusing. When we went on vacation with them, did I go on vacation with her, or with him? And since my primary interaction with him has been when he was her, and as the wife of my husband’s friend, the whole thing makes my head spin.
I will admit that years later I’m still pissed at him for changing, but not about the change, more about how betrayed my husband’s friend felt and how difficult their kids (who were still in elementary school) had it. I’m happy for him, but Gods! what a mess! If anyone finds this thread and isn’t sure about their gender identity post the end of 2013 as I write this - avoid having children.
Is it really MOST schools? That’s terrible.
There was a transgirl at my middle/high school in the '90s and she dressed like a girl and went by a girl’s name. I either don’t remember or never knew which restroom she used, but I know the rest of it was never an issue. She used to dress like a boy and go by a boy’s name and then it changed when she was in 7th or 8th grade. If she was ever bullied, it wasn’t severe enough that I ever heard about it (and I would have if it was severe, it was a small school).
Now my 8th grader kid has a friend who is a transgirl and she doesn’t have problem with those things either (again, don’t know if she’s bullied at all…probably to some extent, but my daughter would have mentioned it if it was severe). I’d have to ask my daughter about the restroom situation though.
My parents were not so hard to win over; my blood father died almost a decade ago, he would have disowned me or worse. The way my mother describes it, they could see how incredibly happy I was, and how everyone rallied around and accepted me. She worried about my career, but when she saw my company and university roll out the red carpet for me, she relaxed. Fierra’s family…was very unhappy at first, to the point of being insulting, but came around. One family member disowned me. Other family are on the fence, which is OK as I was never that close to them anyhow.
My parents came over for Christmas at our house, and joining us for the festivities and dinner were two of our best transsexual friends. Everyone got along famously, and it was an awesome, wonderful Christmas for all.
Yes, no, and heh. 
I think that is a little harsh. It’s true that children tremendously complicate things if a transition happens while they are still young, but it usually comes down to how the spouse treats it. Kids are tougher and more flexible than we give them credit for, and I know several families where when the spouse rallied to keep the family together, the kids just adjusted. They call their parents “mom1 and mom2” in one family, and they present to the world as a family with lesbian parents.
And it is getting better. The acceptance, the open-mindedness, the ability to just let people assemble their families in the best way that works for them and get to work being happy and productive citizens.
I’m very happy for both girls! Bullying is rampant, but certainly not universal. And it’s getting better all the time.
I hope this does not come off as a nasty or silly question, and certainly you can refuse to answer. I truly admire your guts, and having to overcome so much in childhood that would sink most kids and still make it through is awesome. But I’m curious, as someone who does not have much knowledge of transgender science -
Do you have a penis and testicles? And do they work normally?
I don’t know enough about the physical differences in regard to genitals versus brain chemistry. For someone like me who doesn’t have a lot of experience with it, the shape of your naughty bits and mannerisms is still kinda the gold standard for assuming gender.
I’m also curious about your thoughts on homosexuality. For people with no gender identity issues, being gay is non-complicated (leaving aside social and family issues). When you have to mix in gender issues, it gets muddled. When you were a boy, and liked girls, it must have been simpler at least in that way, right? Was there any weirdness when you became a lesbian? Did you date any straight women when you were a boy?
A bit of clarification, you mentioned when you were younger that you wished your male peers would give you more sexual attention, but you are married to a woman. So are you attracted men, women or both?
Also, I’m not clear on your wife’s sexual orientation, since she married you as a man but referred to you as her “wife” during your vows, and otherwise accepting of your transition.
Finally, what do you do for a living? I gathered that you’re a scientist of some sort and work in academia but if not it’s not too prying, I am curious to know more specifically what you do.
…And congrats for opening a new chapter in your life and the consequent happiness.
I am sorry.
When I was young, I wanted a boyfriend like any girl. I wanted to be taken care of and have someone pay the same attention to me that other girls received. All my time in Junior High I felt like I was missing out on something special that I might never have. I might have been open to other girls later on, and by High School I was definitely bi or questioning. Not that that helped matters.
After my rape I was disgusted with and horrified by men and boys, and I became only interested in other women. This did make things a little easier, given that I looked like a boy on the outside. But my attempts at romance were sadly flawed, as basically girls wanted someone to be and act “manly”, and they were meeting someone who was so effeminate that it would only take about 5 minutes before they would pronounce me as “gay.” A couple of times gay men made inroads, but I was so scared of men in about 5 minutes they got the signals to go away.
My first love was a female physician, who I thought would understand me better than a layperson. That didn’t work out in any way. She wanted me to play a strong male role. I tried; I failed. I’m not capable of doing that. You might as well ask me to flap my arms and fly. For about 3 or 4 years in that relationship, I became notably asexual, not interested in anyone or anything. It wasn’t even a conscious choice, just the way it was.
Fierra re-awakened passion in me, and I became decidedly lesbian again.
After I transitioned, the effect of the hormones and the immense, cataclysmic emotional relief changed my attitude towards men completely. At the start of 2012, I still would get scared being in an elevator with just men, even in a white-collar 110% safe environment. If the elevator was crowded, I would tremble with fear - I had to clench my fists to keep my hands from shaking visibly. Even among co-workers I’d known for decades. By the end of 2012, I was so fearless and comfortable around men, that I could hop into a man’s lap playfully to flirt with him. At the clubs men can come up and put an arm around my waist, and I can just ignore it - or lean into the embrace, if I want to.
I’m not bi now, but my current sexuality is such that I still only want to be with a woman - but the parts don’t matter. So I would be open to a transwoman or cisgender woman, or another intersex person who was just mostly female. It would depend on the brain, not the body. I just don’t understand men mentally, I don’t “click” with them. I don’t fear their “parts,” in fact they don’t even enter into the equation. I’m approaching 50, and life is just too damn short and I’ve been through too damn much to get hung up on little things like that.
So overall, as I said in a recent lecture I gave, “At one point in time, I’ve been at least one of each letter - LGBTIQA.” It garnered a larger laugh than I expected…
I think post #51 which I just made answers this.
Fierra just loves me, and the parts don’t matter. She is lesbian and proudly calls herself such. In public, even at her workplace, she proudly introduces me as “my wife.” We’ve been married more than a decade, and we still sit on the same side of the table, hold hands every day in public, kiss, hug, and tell each other we love them many times a day.
Thank you. I work in the energy industry as a consultant, and keep my toe in the academic waters as a part-time college professor. I may retire soon but move to teaching half-time, as my university is really nice and they would love me to teach more - and I’d love to teach more too.
Applauding !!!
Great & courageous thread.
Your professional opinion has been very respected on this board. You can add admiration for your bravery and sadness for what you’ve gone through. The pictures you posted show the years have been kind to you.
My question regards hormones. You said you were taking them but the doctors said you were certifiably female. Are there any health risks involved and how do you monitor/mitigate them?
Una, thanks for this thread–it’s a fascinating read, and I’m so glad you’ve gotten to a space where you’re comfortable and happy. This topic has always interested me–I’m not trans, but I do often feel like I’d be a lot happier if I were a lot more androgynous than I appear (it’s not so much that I want to be a guy as I don’t particularly feel like a girl), so these experiences kind of resonate.
Lasciel, A couple of YA books I’ve read that I thought were good and your kids might like are Being Emily by Rachel Gold (about a transgirl) and Parrotfish by Ellen Wittlinger (about a transboy).
My body is strange. I am routinely pegged for being 29, when I’m almost 20 years older. The doctors believe my genetics is responsible, but who really knows? Lots of people look younger, or older, than they are.
Excellent question. In the old days, transsexual women took very different hormones - hormones which were not nearly the same as real female hormones, and which very often were combined with large amounts of progesterone. Reports for decades showed that deep vein thrombosis (DVT) was a big risk for transsexual women, especially those over age 40, and other blood clots could form which could be fatal. Progesterone, as we saw from the hormone replacement therapy (HRT) studies of the late 2000’s, was responsible for serious increases in breast cancer risk.
Nowadays most transwomen take 17B-estradiol, which is much closer to what human women actually would produce in their bodies. It’s not 100% the same, but it’s closer. Also, progesterone is now not recommended, and not commonly taken. The studies I’ve reviewed show that nowadays DVT is rare, and limited mainly to transwomen who are heavy smokers. Breast cancer is thankfully rare as well, although we definitely need mammograms (I was having them before hormones, as I had breasts from my natural hormones).
The anti-androgens we take, spironolactone or finasteride or others, seem thankfully to have limited side effects. Spiro can cause potassium issues with the body, and can be a diuretic in larger doses. Finasteride can cause impotence, but that’s pretty much inevitable given the enormous amounts of estradiol we take anyhow.
There are some other miscellaneous problems which can pop up from the hormones. Sometimes you can have liver disorders from oral estrogens, and have to go to a patch, for example.
Some other things are problems, some are benefits with some problems.
Our skin becomes very soft, and weaker than it was as “men.” I cannot count the number of times even other women at work have sat there stroking my arm or face, saying “OMG, she’s softer than silk.” Men and cisgender women like to touch me, which is actually sort of as odd to me as it must sound to you. Because it’s soft, it tears easily, however, and I wear thin leather “fashion gloves” almost any time the temperature is less than 60, just to protect my hands from cuts.
We bruise MUCH easier, and the bruises take a longer time to fade.
Our nails are so brittle on some of us that we never grow them, clipping them as short as possible because otherwise they just crack (that’s me).
I had a difficult time building any muscle when I was young, just on my natural hormones. Even after I was forced to go on a weight training program to “toughen me up,” I was always dead last in the class, by a large margin. After 18 months on hormones, it’s safe to say I’ve lost 50% of my strength. I now need big, strong men to open jars for me, or lift my roller bag into the overhead bins on planes. Last weekend I dumped my motorcycle on the drive, and despite all my lifting, I could not even budge it an inch. Up walks a utility worker who saw me fall, about 5 inches taller and maybe 50 pounds heavier, an average man, yes? And he says “here little lady, let me help you”, grabs the handlebars and wrenches the bike upright with modest effort. That incident filled me with a mix of pleasure and shame. I was happy a man came riding to my rescue, but unhappy I couldn’t lift it myself.
My smell changed. Before, I had very little body odor. I loved not being able to wear any deodorant as I gave off no scent unless I was really hot and really sweaty for a long time. Hormones made me smell almost within the week, and I could detect it because I wasn’t used to it. It wasn’t BO, it was a scent of…I don’t know how to describe it, I just know that even after a fresh shower, without an hour I could tell I was no longer scentless? About that time, even though I was still in stealth at work (there was an overlap where I was taking hormones before I came out 100%), I started to receive compliments from the men on my “cologne.”
My depth perception and spatial awareness changed. This was profound and a little scary. I adjusted to it after a about a year, but at first it was really not cool. Two examples - I fence, and one of my best tricks is “pulling distance”, where I retreat from an attack just barely enough so their sword misses me by about an inch, then I can riposte and score. Within a month after hormones, I started getting hit all the time when pulling distance, as suddenly everyone seemed about 3-4 inches closer than I thought. Second example - the garage I park my car in is tight, there is only about 4 inches of clearance on either side of the door (once inside it has plenty of room). In nearly 13 years living here, I never once touched the sides of the garage - not once, and that’s even coasting on in quickly. In the first two months after hormones, I scraped the car so many times I forgot to count; more than a dozen?
For the first time in my life, I became prone to yeast infections. Enough said.
My sense of taste and smell changed, profoundly in some cases. My sense of touch did slightly. These were some of the more troublesome side effects.
Many, many other changes have happened. As a scientist, I logged and documented them, and it’s been fascinating to observe these things first-hand, like being an explorer in an uncharted land on a one-way journey. Hormones are very powerful, and I take huge amounts of them. I almost feel like, well this will sound odd, like my brain has been slowly re-wired over time. In a good way, mostly. The literature supports proof of long-term hormone use leading to permanent cognitive differences, but the root cause is not understood. I know I’m absolutely not the same person I was 18 months ago, and it’s possible I may be a different person still in another 18 months. I don’t know. It’s a little scary, you know?
I suspect you will end up writing a book about it with your background.
Glad you have found some peace and fun in life Una. Kansas has got to be a difficult place for you and Fierra, and it doesn’t look like things are going to get better here anytime soon.
My question: what did you think of the book Middlesex?
The problem, something which is not its fault, is there are so many degrees and types of intersex condition that it’s hard to find similarity or common ground. I also found the book quite difficult to read from a literary standpoint, and it just never stuck with me.
No questions, just a thank-you and lots of admiration.