Whynot? How many kids do you have???
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What, exactly, is “lock-down”? Do you mean house arrest? Because it sounds like a terrible punishment, or a drill for a military base.
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Is she on lock-down for skipping school or for having a boy-friend?
If you are punishing her for having a boy-friend, did you ever talk with her under what circumstances she can have one?
If you never told her what she’s allowed to do and what not, it’s unjust to punish her. -
What exactly do you mean with “making out”? It sounds not only terribly old-fashioned, but like old prudes throwing a fit over a girl kissing a guy. Tell you what: a kiss isn’t making out in normal sense.
No, she was not your little girl. She doesn’t belong to you like a pretty doll to play with and become a clone of you or a robot who obeys. She is a person on loan to you from the future, and your job is to help her develop her individuality.
And at 13 she is starting to become an adult. If you still see her as little girl, you are demeaning her, denying her the necessary respect, not granting her the necessary first degrees of indepence. In other words, because of your own egoistic desires, you are denying her the chance of growing up normally, trying to keep her small and stifling her, like cutting the roots of a tree to make a bonsai instead of letting it grow.
Again, was she having sexual intercourse with him? Or just kissing?
Frankly, from a female perspective, nothing kills quicker any way of trust than an unreal overreaction like this. You sound like the worst stereotype of possesive, creepy-jealous, American Dad who thinks at age 17 his daughter is still a child. If you blew up at her just a trace of what you sound like now (after 3 days!), then you have probably killed for good all chances that she will ever again either confide in you anything personal, or take any advice from you serious, because you’re written off in her mind as person out of touch with reality, with self-control issues, with no respect for, and no interest in, her feelings and her personal self.
So in other words, you didn’t raise them to be good men, you just let them grow up like weeds. Wonderful double standard as usual with prudes, too: girls have to be pure, boys can do what they want. How many girls that your boys “made out with” against a wall belonged to some other father? Did you ever consider this? Ever have a talk with your boys why making out with girls is not okay under certain circumstances? If not, why not?
If your child - girl or boy - is lying to you, then you have already seriously fucked up. Either you messed up the self-esteem, and she has no courage to stand up for the truth. Or you messed up justice, and she has learned that openly stating her opinion will only get her trouble, but underhand lying will go by. Or you are a jerk with control issues who blows up at the littlest thing, and so she lies so you don’t hit her or whatever.
Frankly, you sound like a huge jerk. If you are serious however, you need to concentrate on repairing and rebuilding the relationship with your daughter on trust and respect for her and being fair and just. This will take a lot of dedication and power and commitment from you, because it won’t work in 5 days. Rather, you will need to spend week after week with patience, showing her that you have changed and care for her and about her, and not only her virginity, that you want her to be herself and not just please you as little girl. Since you’ve messed up the last 13 years, it will take time to overcome her mistrust and fear of you, and her bad habits she’s learned.
Once you have earned her trust and respect as person who knows what he’s talking about, then you can have a talk with her that teenage boys are hormone-driven and often, very often, lie to girls to get sex; that when a boy tells her he loves her, he needs to show it by not pressuring her; that she deserves it, because she has value as a person, to have sex when she wants it, not when somebody else wants it; and that even if she makes mistakes, she’s still a valuable person and not a slut or bitch.
Because that’s what girls need to learn, not that sex is bad because they’re daddys little girl.(urgh).
And meanwhile, you allow possibilities for boys to come over and meet her and you. Not because you as father muster potential suitors over the hand of the daugher - avoid that impression at all costs! But rather because as a man, you know how some boys think - always allow the possibility of exceptions! - and want to help her avoid being lied to.
Try to remember that the more boys your daughter can see under harmless and different circumstances, the more chance she has of meeting a real good one.
And tell her that she doesn’t need to hide a “bad boy” from you. You will only criticze a boy if she asks for your advice, and never while the boy is present. (And keep that promise!) But any boy of hers will be welcome at your home, just as she is.
Lastly: there is no generally age for when a girl can have a boy-friend, because it depends on both’s maturity level. And because a good partnership grows from a friendship, often without intent, and you don’t want to prohibit friendships between boys and girls.
I’ve got two, an 18 year old and a just turned 6 year old. I have two goddaughters, 18 and 16, who I lived next door to and helped raise until last year, and a just-turned-21-but-developmentally-about-15-year-old-girl stray living part time with me. I have 36 credit hours (what is that, 540 contact hours?) in child development and child psychology. I’m a nursing student currently in a pediatric rotation. In my off time, I counsel teens in a church group and teach safer sex to both teens and adults.
Oh, and I was a teenaged mother myself. My mom tried “lock-down” because she thought the boy was too old for me. (Which, legally, he was - 21 to my 17.) I had boyfriends before that, but never had sex with any of them. When Mom disapproved so strongly, suddenly sex was much more enticing.
IIRC, WhyNot has two kids.
Going on hormonal birth control should almost certainly not be forced on a girl. The pill isn’t for everyone (and if she’s smoking it could be very risky), Depo has similar and often worse side effects, and I doubt you’d find a doc who’d implant an IUD in someone so young, at least not the kinds of IUD I’m familiar with.
How old is the older boy? 14 is nothing, out of high school is troubling, late 20s and older is OMG-problem.
And speaking as a former 13-year-old girl, being hardcore grounded for kissing a guy sounds really awful.
I don’t think I’ve ever agreed with you so much in a parenting thread constanze. That was just perfect (except that the OP is Mom, not Dad.) Thank you.
Ok.You all make some very valid points. “Lockdown” was too harsh a word, how about her phone taken away and early to bed, no after school activities…that is all it is.
I hear all of you and agree. Her Dad however says this is all a buncha horseshit.
So, yeah, I am tripping a little. Sorry. Just here. Been cool in front of her, other than calling the 15 yr old LAME when I caught him with is tongue down my daughters throat…thanks all. I appreciate it.
Because you are freaking out and coming across like a jerk. So people tell you to stop it. Either take that advice or don’t. But if you keep acting like a jerk, don’t be surprised if your daughter ignores you and shuts you out of her life.
I certainly would do so in her position, the way you are currently reacting here.
PDAs are normal and fine. Making out and pawing at each other is what tends to cross the threshold of socially acceptable, but I would hate to live in a world where I’m not allowed to hold my wife’s hand in public and kiss her goodbye at the bus stop.
You’ve got to ratched down the hysteria and excessive punctuation!!! Right now you sound like a piece of work who can’t even process advice, good or bad, and your hysterical overreaaction is just going to kill any trust you have with the kid. I’d hate to be in your kids shoes when she makes a crap decision, or realizes she made a stupid mistake, and needs an adult’s advice.
You don’t respect your child, your child won’t respect you back. This goes for 6-year-olds as well as 16-year-olds
Quoted for truth.
And direct answer to OP question: when I was growing up in the U.S. midwest and in Canada. The average time frame for the first boyfriend/girlfriend thing was the sixth grade. When you slow dance you were scared silly and you were at arms’ length doing theever romantic step-together-step-together dance technique. Some kids (very rarely) experiment with French kissing which was generally considered “gross”.
Oh, and first time I ever “made out” with a girl, we were both 13. It was summer before 8th grade.
15 to a 13’r? Why, that’s perfect! Two years’ difference. I don’t think I know anybody who’d freak out for anything under a 6-years’ difference.
No, seriously, 15-16 were pretty much the older range of my classmates’ bf’s when we were 13 - anything beyond that was “old” and “everybody knew” that 2 years was a perfect difference. The younger range was boys in our own class.
No one has mentioned infibulation yet . . .
I am saying I AGREE with all of you. Except for the point that I am not supposed to punish her for lying because it is all MY fault. And I don’t hit my kids, no one in this house does. No one has mistreated her…she got caught sneaking in a friends window a few weeks ago and was grounded for about 4 days. So what is she so scared of?? I know when I was a teen and I skipped school, I lied to my folks too…all you guys are telling me is how I FUCKED UP!
15 isn’t that old. I know, it’s a big developmental gulf, but you can’t help it that teens that age are going to encounter each other and hang out.
Skipping school is really what you need to be focusing on here when it comes to punishment, and not quite as much her kissing a boy. For the latter, some serious ongoing communication is needed.
BTW, I didn’t mean to sound anti-hormonal birth control. I was on various versions of the pill for around two decades, until recently getting a Mirena IUD. It’s just that some women, with some varieties of the pill, can have side effects that are unpleasant generally, but may be extra-tough for a teenager to deal with. Things like weight gain/bloating, acne, even mood swings/depression.
Wow, thanks very much, I’m blushing now. A compliment from you, with your experience, means a lot.
Although, reading the posts that appeared while I was typing my own, I’m really shocked that the OP is the mother. From the reaction, I was sure it was a father, it’s so stereotypical. From a woman herself, who’s dated boys herself, this is doubly worse.
I wonder when the OP had her first boy-friend? When did she “make out” the first time? Because if she tries to tell us that she was chaste until marriage, either she’s lying through her teeth and repressing her own bad behaviour as teen. Or she was raised like a nun, and thus is not qualified to teach children about what’s normal in sex until she’s had therapy to come to grips with sexuality.
My own reason to avoid hormonal birth control is a seriously lousy family history of bad reactions to both that and HRT - it’s just not a good choice for us.
whereismymind, I’m glad you’re calmer now.
I just got attacked right off the bat…You guys reacted like I told you I locked her in her closet and starved her or something. I.took.her.phone.away.took.her.computer.away. it has been THREE days…wtf??
It was your tone. When you write"WTF is “Normal”???" with hysterical punctuation the mental image created is pretty loony.
Persoanlly, my mental image was of a crazy cat lady who wishes she could homeschool her kids so they wouldn’t be subjected to the immoral influence of Justin Bieber.
For the record, I don’t think a teenager lying to you necessarily means you’ve fucked up. It’s part of the process by which they push boundaries and learn how to be an independent person.
And yes, there needs to be consequences for that sort of behavior, but I’m not sure that grounding is really ever the best consequence. It’s a power play - it’s the parents taking an authoritative ("you’ll do what I say because I’m the parent, dammit!) stance instead of an authoritarian (“I’ve had experience being a 13 year old, and you haven’t, so here’s what I learned from it and hope to teach you.”) one. Research shows much better results (in terms of drug use, teen pregnancy and gainful employment, as well as lesser rates of depression and suicide attempts) with authoritative than authoritarian parenting.
But grounding a teenager for kissing - even French kissing - that’s where you fucked up. Not the end of the world, and not irreparable. But yes, a mistake that needs to be rectified.
Really, it’s your choice. But it really seems like you’ve got an adversarial relationship with her on top of an authoritarian parenting style, and that rarely ends well.
Talk to her. Make your home a welcoming place where she’s loved and supported and her friends - romantic or otherwise - are welcome. Work with her, not against her. That’s all we’re really saying.
thank you whynot. I agree with you…it is her Dad that says…“do as I fucking say or else” so maybe you guys can see why I am tripping…???
I didn’t say you shouldn’t punish her for lying. I said you shouldn’t punish her for having a boy-friend.
And lying is an indicator that something is serious wrong and that needs to be adressed, and that part is your responsibility. Whether you punish her now for lying is small stuff compared to whether or not you start rebuilding a proper relationship with her over the next months, when she will have the courage and trust to tell you the truth in the future.
I didn’t said you did, I wondered if you did, because your freaking out comes across as self-control issue, and some (not all) people with self-control issues who are also parents escalate from yelling into physical punishment.
First, how do you know she isn’t mistreated? There are a lot more ways to mistreat children than beating them blue; in fact, one of the biggest problems of abuse is psychological abuse which doesn’t leave tell-tale marks, so nobody believes the child how bad it is.
Again, I’m not saying you are abusing her - but since you seem to lack trust with your daughter, you can’t be sure she doesn’t feel mistreated.
And being scared can come not only from your overreaction, freaking out/ yelling (I’m extrapolating from your behaviour here, since I haven’t observed anything in person obviously) can be quite scary to some people. She may feel unjustly treated, which is also a form of mistreatment. Or she may lack self-esteem, and therefore be scared of taking responsibility and trying to avoid consequences with lying. (This is very common for young girls, who esp. at puberty/ teenage phase go from normal self-esteem to low self-esteem due to peer pressure about her looks, body, becoming an individual, … Clueless parents make things worse during that time.)
So if you did it yourself, why are you upset at your daughter? If you think back, why did you lie to your parents back then? What behaviour of your parents did upset you as teen, and what did you wish for instead? And how much of your behaviour today is a mirror of your own parents? How much have you tried being a better parent, based on your insights as teen, to your daughter? (It’s hard to try and change the patterns you learned growing up, nobody disputes that. But you have at least to try and change and behave different.)
A) I don’t think it’s relevant how many kids WhyNot may or may not have and I don’t think she is obligated to demonstrate her credentials for posting to this thread. Why should she have to justify where her posts are coming from when none of the rest of us are required to.
B) There are a lot more options than the pill, Depo, and IUDs (for which she is too young and no decent doc would give her one). There’s the female condom. There’s the Nuva ring. There’s a patch. There’s implants. There’s probably a few more new options since the last time I investigated the options. Spend some time with an OB/Gyn and discuss the options. When the kid is ready, she’s already educated and understands which are the best options, and hopefully by then, she understands that she can talk to her parents openly and get access to birth control in order to protect herself.
C) Valuing a female only for her virginity is straight up misogyny. She is worth more than her hymen. Sex ≠ morality. Having sex or fooling around with a boy does not and would not make her a bad person.
D) When I was 13, I was paddled with a wooden paddle just for talking to a boy on the phone. I didn’t stop seeing boys, or liking boys, or even making out with boys. I simply learned how to lie better. Continue this lockdown business at your own peril.