Not wanting to see a chaplain on the death bed - this is not a “repudiation” of Christianity. For me, there is no need to “repudiate” - I simply don’t believe, so speaking to a Chaplain or not - why would I want to talk to a stranger on my death bed? It simply means nothing
There may well be politics at play here - the family / father are active in their church, how will the rest of the community react to the parents if Mitch is “outed” as atheist? Why is there a need to make the family “look bad” in their community - a community that will judge them on such matters?
What beliefs are “informed” by atheism? I thought atheism was a lack of belief? I am pretty anti theism, I don’t like it, or what it stands for - but this is not something that comes from following atheism. Atheism has no central tenets that someone follows or believes.
If it were my funeral I would want Amber to do things
a) Tell the truth about what sort of person I was - the kindness shown to her, the generosity, the willingness to give a second chance
b) Give the eulogy in such a way that it didn’t make life harder for / upset / offend the family. Even in my death, I would want to be considerate of my family.
Is there really a need to reject religion in the eulogy? As many have said - can’t she just remain silent on the matter?
Is creating a “scandal” at the funeral going to serve her needs? Setting herself up for acrimony with the family for what?
There are lots of ways to deliver a eulogy of the sort of person he was, without needing to say he rejected the church
For the record, I didn’t admonish atheism, and the OP doesn’t ask me to admonish the family, it asked which eulogy to give. I chose the one that would not hijack the funeral for a loved one into a religious debate.
But when I really think about it, I don’t think I would even admonish the family. While I personally disagree with their behavior, I understand why a Pentecostal would do that. “Salvation” means everything to these people and they are suffering a loss and are coping the only way their religious programming allows them to: their loved ones get go to Heaven. Yes, it’s wrong and illogical and a bit pathetic, but it’s also human nature as old as dirt.
I bet after working so hard to build bridges with his sister he wouldn’t want her to go and destroy all that hard work by alienating her entire family at his funeral. Whether he was a militant atheist or not I bet he wouldn’t want that.
I’m also thinking, his atheism obviously wasn’t an issue between him and the family - so it seems he was willing to accept some form of compromise, why not maintain that illusion?
If atheism obviously wasn’t an issue with his family, then why would the mere mention that he was an atheist cause such a ruckus at the service?
Unless of course you are referring to what Christians typically call “compromise” when it comes to atheists living amongst Christians-complete capitulation and submission on the side of the atheist, never giving opinions when religious topics come up, pretending to pray at the dinner table, etc. Being a “Good Atheist”.
She should say whatever she needs to say to be true to the loss of her brother. It’s not just about what the other relatives want. She’s grieving too and she’s entitled to express that. If she feels that Mitch’s atheism is an important part of who he was, she shouldn’t have to lie about it. Her family has their memories of Mitch and she has hers. It’s true and it happened. If she wants to talk about, say, Mitch’s warnings about the twelve step group - well, it’s true and it happened.
Alternatively, she should just leave. If she wants she could hold a memorial for his friends back in NYC. In truth she should have bowed out once the alt-history pressure started. But she shouldn’t feel obligated to say anything she thinks is untrue. She should hand both eulogies to someone and walk out.
Mitch chose to leave Tennessee for a reason. So did she. The Tennessee family’s feelings are not the only ones that matter.
This is not about atheism, atheists, Christians, Christianity, or you. This is about what is and is not appropriate behavior at a funeral. Anyone that isn’t an asshole knows that funerals are not the place to annoy/offend/antagonize the family of the deceased. Period.
I thought we weren’t doing it because of family(although I could have sworn that both the dead son and the sister that wishes to honor him were family also), but now it’s because of where the ceremony is being held? She can’t do it because this is a Christian event?
If every person present but one (and the deceased) is Christian, it’s being held in a Christian church, presided over by a Christian minister… yeah, that looks pretty Christian to me. I’d say it’s a Christian funeral, whether or not the guest of honor was a Christian or otherwise.
In that case, there is no room for the truth( and no, a half-truth is a lie in this case, as is standing silently by and pretending that the truth is being told by others), and she should organize her own ceremony elsewhere.
edited to add: Skald has yet to say whether any of his non-Christian friends were going to be at the event.
I think you’re close but not entirely right there. It’s about how to behave at a funeral when the other mourners are being dishonest about or disrespectful to the deceased.
Somebody upthread wondered if our answers would differ if the family were whitewashing Mitch’s gayness. That is something I have some experience with. I have, or rather had, a gay cousin, “Leonard,” who died of AIDS about twelve years back. At his funeral his long time monogamous lover–husband in all but name – was referred to only as his best friend and was not permitted to sit with the family; in addition, the minister told a bullshit story about Leonard’s last-minute acceptance of Jesus (bullshit because Leonard’s brain had been eaten by the disease and he was utterly incoherent during the last days of his life). This same minister had, at Leonard’s father’s funeral a few month’s earlier, chosen to give a sermon in which he decried the influence of gays on our society, using the words fag, faggot, and queer repeatedly, while Leonard was in the front row dying.
I gave serious thought to kicking his ass at the reception and am still not certain I was right to restrain myself
Quoted for truth.
No, it’s meta. As I said in the poll, I have come to think that polls retard discussion, but every time I post a thread without them, people point out that all Skald polls include recipes, so I decided not to tell everybody to fuck off.
Yeah, but we don’t know what those reasons were. Maybe he got a job working for LAW & ORDER or BLUE BLOODS or something.
Yeah, but there’s a big difference between having a Christian service (praying for the deceased, asking God to take him into Heaven, singing hymns, having Bible readings and a sermon, etc.) and actually coming out and defining the deceased as a devout Christian when he wasn’t. To me, that’s where the line needs to be drawn. The first one is a comforting ritual to the predominantly Christian family and mourners–the second is a lie.
I’d guess few if any. Given that the funeral is taking place almost a thousand miles from where Mitch lived, I think human nature militates against any casual acquaintances coming, and certainly only the best of friends.
Assuming that atheism is true*, then the highest good has to be human happiness or something close to that.
Then the moral thing to do is to lie and say that Mitch had a deathbed conversion. That can’t possibly harm Mitch (or help him, or have any effect on him - he’s dead). It would make the family happy. Therefore, it’s the moral thing to do.
Regards,
Shodan
*Actually, if atheism were true, then it doesn’t make any difference what anyone does, because there is no rational basis to say that anything is “the highest good”, but let’s pretend.
Would any of your attitudes change if:
A.) The family was Christian, Mitch had converted to Judaism, and they had covered it up.
B.) The family was Jewish, Mitch had converted to Christianity, and they had covered it up.
C.) The family was Christian Identity Movement, Mitch had turned atheist, and they covered it up.