Autz, take a seat.

I have some words for you regarding this thread.

Italics are mine. I won’t respond to the many other assertions you’ve made in this, IMHO, ridiculous OP. However, I couldn’t let this go without a comment.

I breastfed my beautiful 15 month old for four months. It was very difficult as I have very flat nipples and large breasts, and she just couldn’t latch on properly. I had a C-section under general anesthesia which also apparently contributed to breastfeeding difficulties. It took several visits from a lactation consultant in the hospital and at home to get us on course. Our daughter lost over 10% of her birthweight in the first two days, which forced us to supplement with formula to keep her alive. Only my and my husband’s tenacity and belief in the benefits of breastmilk enabled us to get over the initial hump and into a breastfeeding routine. It took about 6 weeks of struggle before it was natural and easy. She was lactose intolerant, so while breastfeeding I had to cut out all dairy from my diet, which I did with no remorse.

I went back to work after 12 weeks, and weaned her a month later. She was on lactose-free Enfamil until she was a year old, at which time we switched to whole cow’s milk with no problem.

My child has recently been diagnosed with a peanut allergy, and my pediatrician tells me that it may have been caused by a peanut butter sandwich that I ate while breastfeeding. A “la leche” friend of mine says that she is allergic to peanuts because she drank formula.

Your offhand comments, without the benefit of background or cite, only feed ignorance regarding some supposed link between formula and childhood allergies, lowered IQ, colds, lefthandedness, homosexuality, and whatever else formula feeding “might” cause. That is not what this message board, or Great Debates is about. You claim to want a “good debate” on this topic. If so, you need to do a little work. If you’re going to make these assertions, at least cut and paste some cites. It’s not hard.

Ironically, you could have cited several studies that show that by breastfeeding or feeding with soy formula, and delaying solid foods, you can stave off some allergies. But you didn’t.

Here’s one. I found at least 6 really good cites for your claims.

If you want to toute the advantages of breastfeeding, go ahead. If you want to say that people should need a perscription [sic] to get formula, please be my guest. Debate to your heart’s content. But if you’re going to make an argument regarding the harm that will befall all breastfed infants, please have the courtesy to provide a cite.

Oh, and fuck off.

I feel your pain.

My daughter did not latch on either. My milk didn’t come in for seven days. It took ten days of LIVING HELL to get her to breastfeed. All during a bout of Post Natal Depression. It was, simply put, the WORST TIME OF MY ENTIRE LIFE. Something I’d NEVER force another woman to go through.

Moreover, my son is adopted. Never - to the best of our knowledge - got a drop of breastmilk in his entire life. I resent the implication , Autz,that he is some sort of disease ridden moron whose lack of proper bonding is going to damn him to being a serial killer. He is, in fact, a perfectly healthy, apparently bright (or at least normal), affectionate little boy.

Autz needs to learn something that I learned wwwwwaaaayyy back in kindergarten and that is:

All people are different.

And little left handed girls are trouble.


I read that thread. I thought Autz came of as somewhat condescending and arrogant (and insufficiently informed), but basically well-meaning.

However, I did have to laugh at this:

Yeah, don’t it suck when no one agrees with you? (pout!) The last recourse of the debate loser: insist that everyone who disagrees with you are knee-jerk reactionaries who simply refuse to consider your position.


Ferrous is right.

Look, Autz posted an idea that probably isn’t well-thought out, and he/she posted arguments in support of his/her proposal that weren’t fully backed up. And, I might add, that weren’t very sensitive to the emotional baggage that goes with this issue.

But for fuck’s sake, that doesn’t mean that everything in Autz’ post is bullshit.

Here’s the thing about antibodies. Breastmilk has antibodies which are missing in formula. These coat the lining of the gut and are believed to prevent the absorption of certain proteins that could cause allergies.

Does that mean that EVERY breastfed baby with NEVER have an allergy? Fuck no, as morgainelf noted.

Does that mean that EVERY formula-fed baby will be a “disease-ridden moron?” Um hello? NO.

These are simply facts, people. They are out there. I am sorry that they are sometimes used by breastfeeding advocates to make moms feel guilty. But jesus, do we have to attack them as if admitting even one tiny benefit to breastfeeding means that those of us who formula-fed are shitty parents? That’s not the point.

Have some confidence, people. It’s okay to KNOW that breastfeeding has benefits and still not do it. I know Britax is the best carseat, but I didn’t shell out $200 bucks for one. I also knew natural childbirth was probably best, but that didn’t keep me from wanting to drop to me knees and give the anesthesiologist a blowjob in sheer gratitude when I got my epidural. We all make choices, people, and then we live with them. My brilliant, gorgeous, wonderful toddler sucked down many a bottle of formula in his day, but I still understand and accept the findings about what an amazing, miraculous food breastmilk is.

Ya know, Autz is pretty typical of a huge population of elitist, arrogant, and oh-so-superior pro-breastfeeding evangelists.

They piss me off to no end. And she’s no exception. Come over here and tell me I’m a bad parent, you ignorant fucking bitch. I dare you.

I bow down before the sheer brilliance that is Cranky.

Nope, you’re right. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

It’s not the facts I take exception to, it’s the attitude.

You don’t have to tell me that! My wife and my 7-year old daughter are both southpaws.

And back on topic, my wife produced plenty of breastmilk for an average child, but little Stofskette grew so fast her first few months that by 3 months we were mixing a weak cereal solution with formula on doctor’s orders. A normal amount of breastmilk would have left the child malnourished.

I was in grad school at a small college at the time, making $400/month as a teaching assistant. We had a hard enough time paying for formula with WIC assistance. If we were paying prescription (or perscription, your choice), there would have been no money for the mortgage or food for the adults, as this was before the ubiquitous $10 copay.

Gotcha. Agreed.

And kudos to the perfect follow-up.

And it’s not the breast milk thing that’s eating me…it’s the fact that she wants to criminalize the act of serving formula! OHMYGOD! Prescriptions, street-corner lactation techs, jeez! It’s creeping me out! I hope she doesn’t start a new thread concerning cloth vs. disposable diapers!

I didn’t post my anecdotal info in that thread 'cause, well. cause.

I find the attitude of ‘well, anyone, with sufficient training and desire can breastfeed’ more than annoyingly patronizing. I had more than enough twits deciding for me, after the fact, what I could have and should have done. (and if I ever get ahold of the fucknickle that convinced my ex husband that my c-section was ‘unneccessary’, well, we’ll see how they feel yanking a Thanksgiving turkey out of their 3 cm dialted uterus…)

c-section, nearly 11 pound baby, and frankly he found me a half way decent appetizer, but not sufficient for a full meal.

I support breast feeding (tho’ I thought that my friend’s sister who only stopped breastfeeding her 5 year old son when his infant sister was born was buying into yet another layer of sibling issues, I never bothered her w/my opinion). And while I also support state intervention when abuse/neglect happens, the decision to breastfeed or not is highly personal and individualized.

and as a final statement, not being able to give your child the ‘best’ there is does not generally rise to the level of ‘neglect’ or ‘abuse’.


Hey, is this child abuse?

We just booked a cruise through the Mediterannean for this fall. It will mean I have to wean my youngest son off the breast at 6 months. I am perfectly OK with it. My older son weaned himself at 9 months- one day he just pushed my breast away and laughed!

I have to agree that it was the shrillness of the OP as much as the need for repeated pleas for cites that got to me. We all know the breast is best, but we also live in the real world, where formula can be both a welcome convenience and a lifesaving alternative.

Wow, I think it’s time for a career change.

I’m an RN who works postpartum at a large hospitals. I care for 4 to 8 mom and baby couplets 2 hours post birth. I see lots of breast feeding attempts. I dry a lot of tears…lactation specialists can be brutal in their boobnazi propaganda. I can’t support the fear tactics some use----your baby will have cancer if you don’t get a good latch on and you just have to try harder. I see bleeding nipples and confused and frightened women. I can’t see how this is good for a baby. And not only healthy women have babies. I see women whose coping skills were rotten before they delivered and whose problems don’t magically evaporate with the miracle of motherhood. I see heroin-addicted women on methadone, moms who test positive for all kinds of street drugs and women who takes lots of Depakote to control their seizures. Not every woman is a candidate for breastfeeding. Our lactation nurses run from patient room to office to breast pump equiptment room for 8 hours a day 5 days a week and don’t see everybody they want to. Autz’s vision of a well-regulated breastfeeding society is unrealistic and stupid. It can’t happen. There aren’t enough hours in a day, not enough qualified teachers, not enough resources to make her dream a reality. Maximizing a child’s potential is a wonderful goal, but early nutrition isn’t the end all and be all. Bullying new mothers and forcing their hands to do things as** Autz** sees fit is not a wonderful goal, no matter how many good reasons she has for dreaming out loud. I don’t think of her post in GD as a debate, but as a fantasy she invites us to challenge so she can point out how lofty and high-minded her thoughts are.

I think Autz’s plan should be given a chance. This would be the perfect opportunity for her to sponsor one of those uninformed moms she was talking about. Now, those moms who formula feed because they have to go back to work will be financially compensated, thus allowing them the time to be home nursing their babies. I think it’d be a great program. We can call it Tits for Tots.

Lauramarlane, you are fucking hilarious! Tits for Tots! Bwaaahhhh!! I’m gettin’ a t-shirt AND a bumpersticker!

It’s my body,
and I’ll nurse if I want to…
nurse if I want to…
nurse if I want to…
You can nurse too, 'til your nipples turn blue!