"Bad timing..." for a relationship... ever resolved?

Hi all…

Looking for some insight and, perhaps, some advice here… particularly from women since it’s a “woman’s perspective” type question… but anyone’s welcome to opine, of course :slight_smile:

Long story short… Some time ago, back in March, I fell hard for someone and they fell hard for me in return. It was one of those situations where you know the person for a time, talking casually and such for a few months and at some point, things start to become more personal and before you know it, you realize you’ve fallen for the person. Such was the case between us. We met in an online game we both used to play (I’ve stopped playing and I understand she has as well recently). It was going absolutely amazingly for a time and we were dying to meet face to face (about 16 hours apart by car) and, though I was in-between jobs having recently moved to a new state, she couldn’t wait and insisted on buying me plain tickets to come to her. It was absolutely the most amazing 5 days I’ve spent in memory with anyone, anywhere, any time.

The key thing to remember here is that everything was entirely mutual. She was as open as I was… we both were equally affectionate and such toward each other. It was as close to perfect as I’ve ever experienced, though to quote Neil Peart “I know perfect’s not for real”. I thought and I know she thought for sure that that was it. We were a pair and that’s all there was to it. She even made the comment to me to not get too long of a lease on an apartment where I was living at the time, with the implication that we’d likely be moving in together before too long. And that’s a topic that I know from experience many women are very hesitant to discuss, especially early in a relationship.

So… as you probably have figured out… something brought it to a halt. But, not really a “halt” per se… Basically after my visit there, she realized something. She wasn’t ready to commit to a relationship yet. She’d come out of an 8 year relationship with someone whom she’d been with since she still lived with her folks and this was the first time she’d been truly on her own - her own person. She wasn’t ready to give that up yet and realized she couldn’t give to a relationship between us the way she knew she wanted to. My physically being there is what really sorta drove the point home for her, as she explained it. While there was that distance, I guess it was more of an abstract. She still believed she and I were a perfect pair… but she just wasn’t ready to commit yet. And… wasn’t sure when she would be. She had alot going on in her life at that time… a major job promotion coming up, possible relocation to another part of the city pending the promotion, and so forth…

In all, it was as though a massive “Pause” button had been pressed. Nothing ended… there was no closure… it was just halted abruptly. There was no anger, no arguing, no nothing. To me, that’s what’s happened… it’s on “pause”. It’s not necessarily over. As she put it, it was just really bad timing. We both acknowledged that if at some point in the future when she was ready for a relationship, if the timing was right and things lined up, that we would definitely pick things up and continue. Even a couple of her close friends whom she’d confided in about us, how she felt about me, etc… were baffled at this - they believed we were a “sure thing” as well.

Of course, this was crushing to me (to be grossly understated), though I understood and respected her point-of-view. She requested some time apart to sorta think things through, decide what she wanted in her life and to sorta do the things on her own that she felt she needed and wanted to do… when she’d sorted it through, we’d talk and see where things went from there. I was ready to give her all the time and space she needed and even suggested cutting communication completely for a week, and see how that worked. Her response, and I quote, “No. Don’t leave me completely. I can’t go a week without talking to you.” Well, I guess it turned out to be more difficult than she’d anticipated, as more and more time went by and she never had an answer she felt confident or comfortable giving me. After a time, we stopped talking completely.

Now… it’s over 3 months later and I’m still missing her like crazy. I still laugh out loud to myself thinking back to some of the funny things that were said or done; or remembering little things that I looked forward to on a daily basis, like calling her at work at about 11:30AM to say hi and just see how her day was going, etc… All these great memories, and then soon after I’ll feel my heart crawling into my throat, because I miss her so damn much.

But it’s more than that.

Besides being someone I absolutely fell for and care for like I’ve cared for no other in my life… she’s also earned a place with me reserved for very few people. Basically, you know how you meet some people, and when you lose touch,it’s kinda sad but you move on? But then, there are people who just have such an impact on you - I mean overall… as a person - and are just such amazing people that the thought of losing contact with them would be like having part of you ripped away? Well, she’d attained that status with me, even before we became romantically involved. Even if we only ever remained friends going forward… or even if we never spoke… I will always highly regard her as a great person.

I recently, on recommendation by a good mutual friend of ours, tried to break the ice and contact her again… she still hasn’t responded. And… I’m struggling trying to understand why. I’m hoping that somewhere down the road she and I will again get in contact and talk…and go forward. Though I’m getting on with my life, living… working… and even dating… Deep down, I would love to unpress that Pause button and I’m hoping and praying that day comes.

This is where the advice of a woman would come in handy and be appreciated.

Have any of you here ever found yourself in a situation something like what I’ve described to you… I mean being in her shoes… or even with the roles reversed?

What I’m trying to figure out (and it might be pointless to do so) is why she might still not want to talk. Could it be that her emotions are still too strong as well and she still isn’t ready to “let go and give in” to them so she feels it’s better to keep that distance? Could it be that she’s trying to forget it altogether and move on (even though it goes in direct contradiction to what she’d said in the past… and I have no reason to believe she’d lie about such a thing)? Maybe she feels I’m not ready to continue on a ‘just friends’ level just yet?

I honestly don’t know and so I’m hoping maybe some of you can offer some advice or insight, based upon your own experiences, those you’ve known who have been in similar situations, etc.

And finally… though it seems like something out of a movie (like Serendipity) to me… have any of you ever personally been in a situation where, after a time, you did get back together with that person and things did continue where they left off? Or… perhaps you know of someone else who did? As hopeful as I am, I can’t help but wonder if I’m being a dumbass for even considering it.

Thanks for reading all this… I know it’s ridiculously long… I wanted to get as many details out as I could to allow for more “informed” replies.

Take care…

lol… sorry…I just realized I started the post off with “long story short…” please forgive me… i didn’t realize how much detail I was about to get into there :-).

And also, though I know some are goign to say “ugh… the online relationship thing”… She and I had become very good friends prior to things developing as they did… We’d been talking for at least five months on a regular basis before things became more serious… so. while, yes, it was an online thing… it wasn’t one of those “instantly falling in love” ordeals.

One, the quality of a relationship does not equal the duration. This was an important, transformational part of your life, and whatever happens after this, nothing can change that–the things you learned, the memories your have, all of that is yours, and precious, and safe. So it’s ok to treasure it.

Second, I would guess there is anther side to her that you don’t know and that she didn’t want to share. It doens’t mean the side you saww wasn’t real–it was–but it wasn’t everything. There’s parts of her you don’t know and those parts of her are a lot more reluctant about this relationship. If I had to guess, I would guess there is another relationship she wanted to persue, and the reason she isn’t contacting you now is that it’s worked out. I wouldn’t be shocked to discover she’s gone back to the ex. But that’s a total guess.

As far as the future of the relationship goes, it’s a complete crapshoot and out of your control. It could happen–I am sure stories like this have worked out. But you can’t contact her again and you need to live your life in such a way that you have something to talk about if she does call in six months (“what you been up to?” “Thinking about you” would be lame).

But, again, value what you had and know that if you are capable of that healthy of a connection with another human being, it will happen again. And you will bring to that woman and that relationship all the stuff you’ve learned from this one, and be a better mate for it.

This is my opinion, based on your story: she’s just not that into you. She likes you, but not enough to change her whole life around to bring you into it. When people say they “just aren’t ready,” that usually is a euphemistic and gentle way of saying they just don’t want to be with you, because readiness often has little bearing on people’s decisions to get involved when they really want to.

Get over this girl and move on. Find someone closer to where you live who wants a relationship with you. It can be done. Good luck.

My goodness, this all sounds very familiar. I am going through pretty much exactly this (from her perspective) right now.

My marriage ended (on pretty good terms), in part because I wanted to be on my own for a while.

Soon after the husband moved out, I met a guy who fell totally in love with me. I liked him a lot too and had a great time with him, but the state I was in didn’t really allow me to “fall in love” with him the way he clearly wanted. It wasn’t him, it was totally just the timing. I was in a place where I didn’t really trust myself to think I loved someone (after all, I thought I loved my husband truly and completely, which I guess I did and still do, but I don’t want to be his wife any more, so what kind of love is that?). I liked him so much that I was very easily distracted from my own journey (ie my brand-new identity as an unmarried woman) and soon I found this to be really uncomfortable.

You know how when you’re in a long-term relationship, your personality and your identity is very deeply affected by the person you are with? Usually this is a very good thing, but as I had just been in a serious relationship, I needed to find my own personality and identity again before I let it get mixed up in someone else’s. This is completely a question of timing, as the guy in question has been alone for almost as long as I had been married and he was tired of being lonely (while I had forgotten what lonely feels like!)

He had trouble understanding that just because I couldn’t be with him didn’t mean I didn’t like him as much as I ever did. And I couldn’t be with him, in part, because I felt like if we pursued it in the state I was in, it would have wrecked everything completely. So I asked him to back off so that I could sort myself out and so that we could have a better crack at it in the future.

So all in all, what am I saying?

First of all, believe her when she tells you that it’s not you, it’s that she needs her own space. It’s nothing personal. I think this guy is spectacular and I know that if I met him at a different time in my life, we would have already eloped to Cuba and started a family. Or something. I know that is small comfort to him now, but it is in no way a reflection on him or how great or how worthy he is. He is great and worthy, the problem is with me.

Second, sometimes timing problems are surmountable, sometimes not. If you try to force it, you can mess things up completely. Get on with your life, and if it is meant to be, it will work out. Don’t wait around for her, instead spend your time taking care of yourself and having fun and so on. If she does get herself to a point where she wants a serious relationship with you, make sure you will be a strong and independent person that she would choose to be with.

I don’t know how I’d feel if my man found someone else while I was getting my act together. I’d be sad for the missed opportunity, but I would be happy for him because he deserves happiness, and I know I can’t ask him to wait around.

Thank you, everyone, for the replies.

I agree with the responses I’ve gotten from each of you at least in part. Cowgirl’s seems to have struck a nerve, though, as she said a few things that are reminiscent of some of the conversations we had in my situation at the end, once she’d come to realize what was going on.

I really don’t think it was a “lost interest” thing. I won’t go into detail by detail of every little thing of how we were… but if I could show you a video replay of how we were - right up until I had to leave her at the airport and come back home - you would agree, there’s no way it was a loss of interest. She was actually more physically and verbally affectionate toward me than I was toward her at times. Unless it’s to be believed that someone could go from hot to cold within, literally a couple hours… but I highly doubt that’s the case. And I do not believe it was all an act.

I do know she’s still single and hasn’t gone back to her ex. I know that by talking to that mutual friend of ours. She’s doing exactly what she told me she needed to do - being her own person. Doing her own thing, free of the “confines” of a relationship. And, I will say with 100% certainty… if there was another person involved - she would tell me. She mentioned that it wasn’t another man… and I believe her.

I think cowgirl hit the nail on the head with this part:
“You know how when you’re in a long-term relationship, your personality and your identity is very deeply affected by the person you are with? Usually this is a very good thing, but as I had just been in a serious relationship, I needed to find my own personality and identity again before I let it get mixed up in someone else’s.”

She, too, was really enjoying being and “finding” herself and found that she wasn’t ready to give in to the changes that would come about being in a relationship. I completely understand, respect and even admire that. I’ve known many people who define themselves by their relationship with people… a sort of co-dependence. It’s great that she was eager to find her own identity, on her own terms - so to speak. I’m behind her 100% on that, regardless of how much it hurts being apart. I had told her so. If it’s something that helps her as a person, of course I’m gonna want her to do it, ya know?

So, I am moving on and living my life. To a point, I wish I could sorta put it on ice and sorta “forget about it” for a time. Though, at the same time I don’t want to. As was said, I do cherish and treasure those memories. lol… I wish I could introduce her to you all… I swear. Heh.

I guess I’m just hoping for something to bring a little peace-of-mind at those times when she does inevitably come to the forefront of my thoughts… man, especially when I see something about certain places around her that we’d gone to (someone mentioned an Uno’s Pizza in another thread, and that triggered it… since the one and only time I’d ever eaten at an Unos was with her - for example). I’m hoping for some glimmer of hope that this isn’t “it”. And I know, that’s an impossible thing to determine by anyone but her… but it’s my wish nonetheless.

It was a ‘lost interest’ thing.

She gave you the ol’ heave-ho, and it hurts like everything, and you don’t want to believe it because she was so scorching hot to get together with you. The same thing happened to me, jwith a killer, killer babe. She lost interest.

It’s stupid to tell you to move on, because you wont/can’t, but you have to start planning for a life without her, because that’s what you got and will always have.

Sorry it didn’t work out.


There are people who can. It’s hard to understand for those of us that aren’t like this, but there are people who change emotional states at an incredible rate. And they are dangerous because they aren’t lying, they aren’t acting, they aren’t being deceptive, so you trust them. They really do feel one way. And a while later, they really do feel another. She really was into you, but intensity of emotion for many, many people has absolutely no coorolation to the duration of emotion.

I vote for giving her the breathing room she needs in order to get everything situated in her life, heart, and mind.

I share this because Mr. AdoptaMom and I met a mere six months after the demise of my first marriage of six years. We both felt the sparks and electricity flowing between us and on our second date (before he even kissed me for the first time) he was talking about rocking our grandbabies together on our front porch one day (I was 24, he was 32). We saw one another exclusively for a couple of months, then he slowly moved in with me, and by the six month mark we were married.

Now - I’m VERY happily married - we’re best friends and I still get butterflies in my tummy when we kiss BUT honestly? We should have pushed the pause button. We were and are still perfect for one another but I still had some major issues from my first marriage that I should’ve worked out for myself before hooking up with hunk o hunk o burning love. Because we didn’t wait, the first several years of our marriage were HARD because I hadn’t taken the time to heal; therefore I had one foot out of the door for the first few years…knowing I could make it on my own if I needed to which kept me from committing 100% to our relationship. I felt rushed because I knew that he’d been single for a long time and was passed the point of being ready to settle down and I didn’t know if he would wait for me, so I said yes a whole lot sooner than I should’ve.

If any of this sounds somewhat familiar - wait for her. If it’s right for you both, she’ll come back around once she’s settled in her mind. Send her a card or some flowers occasionally to let her know you’re still interested and trust.

Wow… a very polar-opposite set of opinions coming my way here. Very interesting.

I understand the points being made… about how some people can just lose interest… because I experienced that very recently with someone I was dating.

This was different, though. I still do not believe that there was any sudden loss of interest. I can believe that she pulled back and sorta put a stop to her emotions, before getting any more involved. That I can accept. But I don’t believe it was a sudden loss of interest, like a light-switch. I think reality sorta just slapped her in the face when I was there and she suddenly realized that there was someone else in her life and she wasn’t completely her own person, and it made her feel constricted.

I know that if the reason was that she just lost interest, that would have been the reason she gave me. She would not have asked for the time to think things through, to try to sort things out. She would not have said that she just wasn’t ready for a relationship. I don’t know how she handles all the non-personal things in her life, though I’ve never known her to lie about those either… but I do know that one thing that is very important to her is to be completely honest when other people and, especially, their emotions are involved. Even if she knows it’s going to hurt you to hear it, she’s going to tell you the truth. Even when she feared it would make me think less of her, she told me the truth. I witnessed that quality in her long before she and I became intimate, in conversations with how she dealt with her ex… with how she dealt with people she managed at her job, with family… and so on. She really is one-in-a-million in that respect.

I’m still thinking that cowgirl’s take on it sounds the most feasible… based on things that she’s mentioned in her situation and how they coincide with things in mine.

But… then again, it could be something else entirely and none of us are even close.

In all… I’m just hoping that, if nothing else, she and I at some point can continue being friends again. I’d much rather that, than her be gone for good.

Is this the same girl that you were living with before? The one that was addicted to online games? Or is this someone new? Whatever happened to online game girl? That whole thing just went down last month, didn’t it?

This is someone completely different. Things are officially through with me and the last person I posted about. I knew it was over for a time… over a month. She finally, with enough prodding from her mother, sister and two life-long friends, officially ended it - and then lied to my face when she gave her reason. She’d already moved on to the next guy 2 weeks before she officially broke up with me… and apparently has a history of doing it with almost every guy she gets involved with. Nice, eh? Even her own mother said I’m better off without her and be happy she did it sooner than later. That tells ya something. Why no one warned me earlier on, I don’t know… but there ya go.

The one I’m asking about here is someone entirely different… before I met the recent ex. And… though I know the timing seems really odd… If you haven’t been able to tell by my posts… the one in this thread is someone that I hold in high regard, regardless of whether or not she and I ever get back together. Though, I’d like to hope we will at some point… If I had to deal with a line of the type that I got screwed up with this last time… but it worked out in the end… I think it would be worth it.

Dude, she isn’t the one that needs space and time, you are. My impression here is of someone who can’t stand the idea of being single–you knew the relationship was over for a month, and you waited till she ended it? Talk about prefering to be miserable over being alone! And now, with that relationship still warm in it’s grave (however ill it was before it died), you start going over past relationships trying to find someone to hook up with.

Just be single. For at least a year.

I agree with Manda Jo. I’m getting a strong vibe from your different threads that you’re lonely and desperately seeking a relationship. In both threads, you’re insisting that these woman aren’t dumping you, they’re just dealing with “issues.” Don’t you think it’s a bit of a coincidence that both women ended up leaving you after relatively short periods of time? I know this may seem harsh, but you might be giving off a bit of a “desperate” vibe that is sure to send women running. The other girl, for example, you’d only been dating for 6 weeks when you posted that thread. Now you’re saying you had known it was over for over a month? You’d only been dating her that long! And it appears from this thread that you didn’t see this woman all that much, that it was mostly online. But you’re talking as if you’d been in a serious relationship with her or something. And like Manda Jo said, it appears as if you’re “deep” feelings for her are coming out now because you’re seeking a relationship again now that your other one crashed and burned.

It sounds like you really need to find some independence for yourself. I’ve been where you are. It sucks. You feel like you need to find someone. You don’t. Just be by yourself for awhile, without actively trying to pursue a relationship. It’s not easy, but it sounds like you desperately need it.

Well… heh… okay, the replies are only addressing what I’ve mentioned and… well, that’s what I get for not being thorough enough in my posts, or using poor wording.

I should have said that in retrospect, I knew it was over for a month. However… it’s not that cut and dry.

Here’s the situation…

I knew something was different in the relationship with my recent ex. Out of concern that something might be wrong, I brought it up. The response I got was that nothing was wrong, she was very caught up in and stressed out over school, having just gone back and that summer courses are alot more hectic than regular ones… It’s her third try at doing well in a couple particularly tough classes and she really needed to focus. I got this explanation from her and from family members. Now… who am I to argue that? What logical conclusion should I come to other than “Okay, if that’s the situation and it’s not something between us… then that’s what it is.” If I second-guessed it or didn’t take her at her word, well then I’m obviously not very trusting and that in itself would be a problem.

Am I going to say “no, I can’t accept that you’re focusing on improving yourself; I want all your time and attention with me”? Of course not. This was something that was important to her. I wasn’t thrilled with the situation, but it was worth the small sacrifice (as I saw it at the time) to support her and see her succeed.

Why did I “tolerate” it for as long as I did?

Well, first I don’t like to give up on things, or people. Even though the situation wasn’t what I would prefer, I saw it as a worthy and minor sacrifice to make while she got through those tough courses. When she came out the other side, well then we’d see how things progressed. However, someone telling me, basically, “I’m stressed about and focused on getting at least Bs and As in these two classes this semester, because the courses I want to take down the road depend on it… so I’m not going to be as available as usual until I’m passed them” is not a reason for me to call it quits. That would make me an asshole. That’s the reason she gave me. That’s what I had to go on. Was she lying? Indeed. Did I know it then? No, I did not. I still had my concerns along the way and I voiced them here… however, when talking directly to her, all I had to go on was what she was telling me and how she was acting.

Second, it was not a matter of me being this pathetic little love-starved puppy desperate for a relationship. It was a matter of me going on what I was told - having no reason not to - until things finally reached a point where the actual truth came into sharp focus. We’d been dating and fine for about 3-4 weeks before I first noticed something different… the rest played out over the course of a month. I know this because it started right around the time I first started working at a new job and I’d reached my 1 month anniversary right around the same time she officially ended it. I posted my messages on here about it because, though I was still going on what she told me, the situation still seemed wrong to me.

Also, in this recent situation, while I perhaps didn’t handle things as well as I could have - it was not my insecurities or need for anything that brought it to its conclusion. I’ve come to learn - from her own family and close personal friends - that she has a history of doing this. Falls heads over heels for a guy, is gung-ho for about 3-4 weeks… then gets bored and starts withdrawing, ignoring the guy and treating him like crap, while she scans the landscape for the next one to move on to. This is exactly what she did to me - and she’s already moved on to that next guy, whom she’ll likely do the same exact thing to. When her own mother is telling me “You’re better off without her” and “be happy it ended when it did”… what does that say about the person? Again, this situation was not a result of me being anything than, perhaps, naive and not trusting enough of my own gut instincts at times when I should have listened to them.

As for the other one that I brought up in this thread. Again, we had known each other for much longer than the period of time that things became more serious. In that time, absent of the emotional connection, I had become very fond of her as a person to the point where I place her among people in my life that I hope to never lose touch with. That eventually became the point from which I began to fall for her. That things came to a halt so abruptly when we were both still amazed at how well we were getting along - yes… it hurt. A lot. Yes it was extremely difficult to swallow or understand or comprehend or even accept. Like I said… it didn’t “fade out”. It didn’t die off. Go flip off the light-switch in the room you’re in… that’s about how quickly things went from amazing to “what the hell happened?”… or at least in the scheme of things, it felt that sudden. It would have been so convenient if I could have just accepted and adapted to it as quickly as it happened… but I’m just not built that way.

So, in this case I think I’m dealing with three separate issues in one person:

  1. I remain fond of her as a person and don’t want to lose touch with her - whether it’s as friends or anything else.
  2. I don’t understand what happened and, perhaps because I haven’t gotten an answer that will make sense of things, I’m having trouble just letting go of it.
  3. Yes, on the chance that I don’t meet someone who completely floors me and I wind up in a fantastic relationship with in the meantime, I would still like to think that someday she and I might pick up where we left off. Beyond that, I still have no intention of just forgetting her.

Finally… believe me, I do not need a year or so to myself. I was single for about 5 years, by choice, prior to meeting the previous woman. I’ve been single long enough. I just need to find someone who’s as ready for a relationship as I am, I guess. The past two haven’t been them. I think that’s all it boils down to.

I still say you need to take it down a few notches. Again, with the other girl, you were only togther for like, 6 weeks, right? And things started going sour after week 3 or 4? Usually that’s a bit soon to be having the “should I stick it out through these rough times?” kind of thoughts. Most people aren’t even sure if they really even want to pursue something at all after only 3 weeks, much less stick anything out. Hell, you barely even know someone after 3-4 weeks, and you certainly shouldn’t be at the point where you’re discusisng your relationship with her friends and family. That’s what triggered my “desperate” switch.

And now, a very short time after that one ended, you’re back on the other girl. I think you should let them both go and the next girl you meet, take it very, very slow. Date someone casually for awhile. Don’t spend every waking moment with them from day 1. If you don’t want your heart to get broken so much, you’re going to have to protect it a little.

-nod- Understood. That’s another thing I was thinking, but forgot to mention… I think I need to keep things alot more casual and slower-paced. I do let myself get into things faster than I probably should… I definitely agree with that much moreso than shutting myself off from anything for how ever much longer.

And, to clarify… I’d known the most recent woman for a while before things got serious as well. I’d actually known her for… hmm… geeze almost a year simply as a friend, though I didn’t talk to her as much as the previous woman. What kicked things into gear with this recent one is that I moved from S. Florida to NW S. Carolina… about 1.5 hours from Charlotte, where she lives (and I do now, as well). We decided after I’d moved to the area that since we lived so close that we should meet sometime and hang out in person… We did and things just took off from there. I do regret that I moved in with her as quickly as I did… but circumstances this time around were pretty screwy… It wasn’t a decision of “we really like each other - let’s move in together”. It was very much a situation of “geeze, you’re not having any luck finding work where you are now… why don’t you look around the Charlotte area - it’s a larger city with far more opportunities… you can stay with us until you find something and get on your feet”. That part, at least, worked out… I found a job within a couple weeks of staying with them. It just so happened that we were dating as well when this happened.

With the first one, the timing was more like… we talked casually for about 6 months or so… I don’t remember the exact time frame. We started talking more often and got to know each other alot better over the course of about a month or so… and then at some point, things just took off and we got really serious, which lasted for about 6 weeks before it all came to a halt.

So… I dunno… I don’t think anything was “rushed” per se. I’d spent plenty of time talking to and getting to know each person on a purely “as friends” basis, prior to things getting serious. I think it was a bit of two things… I let myself get emotionally involved too quickly and they turned out to not be the right ones, each for their own reason. I guess I need to learn how to pace myself and not be too open too soon - something that’s hard for me to do because by nature I’m a very open person like that, with everything. The whole “heart on the sleeve” thing. I suppose that’s fodder for a whole other thread… What to say, when to say it… and what never to say in a new relationship.

In any case, I do appreciate all the feedback and advice. None of it has been dismissed… at the worst, it’s brought to light things that I failed to mention in an earlier post :slight_smile: