My friend wants to know what the great minds of the SDMB have to say. I say fire him.
Small detail: As has been pointed out in this thread (see post #9) among others, Torre can’t be fired because he’s no longer under contract. He can either be re-signed, or not. Semantics notwithstanding, one of the best opinions I’ve seen on the matter was posted here – by a Mets fan, no less. It’s very sarcastic, and very funny, and very enlightening. (For some idea of how he feels about the Mets, see also here. storyteller0910 seems to know what s/he’s talking about and makes some excellent points.
Me? I’m a Red Sox & Phillies fan, so I don’t really have a horse in this race, but I have a lot of respect for Torre, and it seems to me that his players really like him, and I think that counts for something. Personally, I think 13 consecutive playoff appearances is impressive, too. (Then again, I am a Phillies fan, and I will take what I can get.) But hey – Steinbrenner has never been accused of being the most logical man in baseball, so who knows with him. I’d be curious to know why you think Torre should be let go.
In all the Torre blather I have never once seen a reasonable argument, based on logic and evidence, why he should not be brought back as manager.
I’m a Yankees fan. I absolutely would like to see him back. Too many small things can go wrong in short series to blame him for recent results in the postseason. (If Joba Chamberlain had gotten one more strike over in game 2, for example, the Yankees could easily still be playing now.) No one else has been remotely as successful in the Steinbrenner era, and I doubt anyone else will do better. (Torre’s real talent has been being able to manage in spite of Steinbrenner.)
The attitude that says he should be fired I think is the same as Steinbrenner’s: that it should be possible to buy a World Championship. It isn’t, and it never has been.
I think Torre should LEAVE. Give King George the finger and go retire to Tampa Bay, manage the Devil Rays from his armchair.
Agreed. I’d also like to add that I’ve not seen a reasonable argument why he’s worth being paid twice what any other manager in the league is paid. If you get paid that kind of money, the team gets to demand a bit more of you.
I don’t think that Torre would be nearly the icon if he managed somewhere else. He managed 15 years outside of the Yankees, with a below .500 record and no WS appearances. In 12 years with the highest payroll in the league, he has a .600 record and 6 WS appearances.
Latest scuttlebutt is that he’ll be asked back, at reduced pay.
A .600 record and six pennants in twelve years in the Wild Card era is probably about as good as it is possible for a team to be for an extended period of time in today’s Major Leagues, no matter how much money you spend.
“We need to win the World Series every year” is an absurd demand, especially with two rounds of playoffs to get through. (Joe would have been wiser to spread his rings out more evenly.) The great, World Series-hogging Yankees teams of old would have undoubtedly been knocked out a few more times if they had 7 more games to win – against good teams – before even getting there. No matter how you build a team and manage it, weird stuff will happen. Did anybody really think the Cardinals were “the best team in baseball” last year? But they beat everybody else somehow, and I don’t think the mangerial weaknesses of Jim Leyland had any part in it.
I think if they let Joe go, Yankee fans are in for some weird times. I predict 3 or 4 different guys over the next decade or so. And not making the postseason a few times. Whatever his flaws as a tactician, he’s a huge part of keeping the chaos of clashing egos at bay.
That said, Bobby Valentine would at least give us something to read on the back of the tabloids next summer.