Battlestar Galactica Question (Spoilers Warning)

Cafe Society
1

I got turned on to this awesome show by the equally cool Ms. mlerose. So far I’ve seen Seasons 1 and the first half of season 2 (currently available for sale), and I’ve read all the TWOP recaps for the 2nd half of Season 2.

Anyway, at the risk of descending into the 8th ring of geekdom…why did the survivors just give up the search to find Earth? At the beginning of Season II they make use of Kara’s sought-after arrow and discover that Earth is where you can see all 12 constellations at once-but they never make a move towards trying to find it after they figure out that fact. The rest of the season seems to be about stuff that has nothing to do with getting to Earth.

What gives? Are they going to pick up this plot thread at some point or is it just going to be a forgotten point?

2

I am sure this plotline will be picked up again in the future. Upon using the Arrow of Apollo in that weird holodeck-planetarium-cave place, they figured out the general direction of Earth, based on the position of the stars and a nebula or something. Anyhow, when the fleet makes what is supposed to be a temporary stop at the ‘New Caprica’ planet, Balthar makes permanent settlement on this planet part of his presidental campaign and winds up winning the election since all the plebes were tired of running from the Cylons. And you know how that turns out.
You’re right that they don’t mention Earth in the later episodes (at least not that I recall), but I presume they were still heading in the general direction of Earth when they found New Caprica.

I can’t wait till October!

3

Thanks, I’m not too fond of the TWOP writer who reviews B.G. and was wondering if I just missed something entirely. I’ve read most of the reviews for the later episodes but I’ll just have to see the episodes.

It just seemed like they were distracted by other stuff entirely after they found out where Earth was actually located.

Also, wonder if Roslin still considers herself their prophet.

4

Going from memory here, but if I recall correctly the only real mention of that, post deus ex machina cancer survival, was whaen she used it as a half hearted campaign point against Balthar.

Slightly off-topice but despite the fact that she is one of my favorite characters in the show I thought that the whole recovery from cancer plot point was a big mistake on the part of the writers. It seemed to completely destroy her position as the prophet/religious zealot which is what made her character so interesting.

5

Things to keep in mind here…

First of all, the only people involved in the Arrow/Tomb/Earth thing were a dozen or so of the high mucky-mucks. So, your “average person” in the fleet really doesn’t know much about things except 'Adama says we’re heading for Earth, but man, nobody can tell us how far away it is…"

Second, the people were tired of being kept in cattle cars for a year or two. They want to find a home. Really, there’s nothing all that special as far as Earth, it’s just a safe place to go.

Third, New Caprica was supposed to be a quick stopoff to top off the water tanks and whatever else they could get from the surface. The election coinciding with the fleet being near New Caprica was just good luck for Baltar and bad luck for everyone else.

-Joe

6

Do you guys know when they plan to start selling the episodes for the 2nd half of Season II? I don’t get cable (I’m never home/too busy to actually watch TV so I cut it off) anymore so I’m dying for them to release the 2nd half of the episodes on DVD.

7

I read someplace that the scheduled release date for Season 2.5 (or whatever cutesy label they’ve given it) on DVD will be September 19. Might even have been Amazon.

As I recall, this will feature not just the 10 episodes of the second half of season two but also an extended (by 15-20 minutes) version of the “Pegasus” episode that concluded the first half. So, woot, and stuff. :slight_smile:

8

[QUOTE=anu-la1979]
Do you guys know when they plan to start selling the episodes for the 2nd half of Season II? I don’t get cable (I’m never home/too busy to actually watch TV so I cut it off) anymore so I’m dying for them to release the 2nd half of the episodes on DVD.
[/QUOTE]

September 19

9

[QUOTE=anu-la1979]
Do you guys know when they plan to start selling the episodes for the 2nd half of Season II? I don’t get cable (I’m never home/too busy to actually watch TV so I cut it off) anymore so I’m dying for them to release the 2nd half of the episodes on DVD.
[/QUOTE]

Apologies if you already know this, but if you’re dying to see the second half of season 2 and can’t wait for the DVDs, you can also purchase the episodes for $1.99 each from the Apple itunes store now.

10

As it turns out, I’ve been renting the BG Seasno 1&2 disks to review (I missed some very key episodes, so I discovered; or, rather, they’re all pretty key episodes…), and just finished watching “Pegasus” last night. Oooo, long wait until Oct.!

Anyhoo

[QUOTE=Merijeek]
Things to keep in mind here…

First of all, the only people involved in the Arrow/Tomb/Earth thing were a dozen or so of the high mucky-mucks. So, your “average person” in the fleet really doesn’t know much about things except 'Adama says we’re heading for Earth, but man, nobody can tell us how far away it is…"
[/QUOTE]

In the beginning of the “Flight o/t Phoenix” episode, Racetrack makes a snide comment to Starbuck after dissing Helo and bitching about life on the run, something about a “chasing our tails” and a “half-assed planetarium show”. I’m quite certain it was a reference to what was seen in the Tomb of Athena. As this was an offhand comment during a card game, it doesn’t appear that what transpired on Kobol is any kind of top secret info. How much of the rest of the fleet knows, of course, is uncertain, but at the very least, it’s widely known among the Galactica pilot corps that Cmdr. Adama’s knowledge of the location of Earth was enhanced by the map in the Tomb. Not only that, some folks are clearly in doubt about the chances for success. Does this mean they now know Adama was originally lying about Earth (which he himself confessed to Pres. Roslyn he didn’t believe in)? I find it very difficult to reconcile this bit of dialogue with anything that came before it unless, unseen to us, the understanding of many of the Galactica crew, Probably Roslyn’s “cabinet”, and perhaps other members of the Fleet (like members of the Quorum, at least) has changed radically in regards to Earth.

[QUOTE=Merijeek]

Second, the people were tired of being kept in cattle cars for a year or two. They want to find a home. Really, there’s nothing all that special as far as Earth, it’s just a safe place to go.
[/QUOTE]

Nothing special? If Earth still harbors the 13th colony, it’s where the remainder of the human species resides. Recall that Dr. Baltar calculated the human species would be extinct in a matter of a couple decades at the rate they were going, with only the 50k people left of the Colonies. In light of this, Pres. Roslyn banned abortion, something she was originally dead-set against, and Baltar actually tried to use that against her politically before the New Caprica issue took the forefront. Earth means humanity has a future. My guess is the willingness to settle on New Caprica had much to do with the fear that an indeterminately long journey to Earth (Adama only says it’s “a long way off”) would be a losing war of attrition agaist the Cylons, in addition to the claustrophobia. Purportedly the nebula around New Caprica (as hokey unphysical as that notion is) will hide the refugees from the Cylons. So, risk being whittled down to nothing whilst going stark raving mad on a years-long quest for a planet that might not exist, or settle on New Caprica.

A year after that decision, of course, everything has gone to total crap on the surface: People struggle to survive in an inhospitably harsh environment while a debauched and nihilistic President provides no leadership whatsoever. And, of course, the nebula didn’t screen the radiation signature of the warhead that was detonated on Cloud Nine.

11

It took the Toasters a year to obey the laws of physics and see the nuke on Cloud Nine. Cool.

Now as to jumping…What are they calculating, the probability of there being some mass where they want to jump? Is the calculation more complex the further away one jumps? Can you jump to a “know” point with fewer or no caclulations?

12

[QUOTE=carnivorousplant]
It took the Toasters a year to obey the laws of physics and see the nuke on Cloud Nine. Cool.

Now as to jumping…What are they calculating, the probability of there being some mass where they want to jump? Is the calculation more complex the further away one jumps? Can you jump to a “know” point with fewer or no caclulations?
[/QUOTE]

Well, I’d guess there’s really no such thing as a “known” point, since everything in the galaxy is always moving. You’d need to do calculations. But we know a Cylon Raider can jump from Kobol to Caprica in one jump, whereas a Colonial Raptor, outfitted with a Cylon FTL computer, still has to make a dozen or so jumps to cover the same distance. So it’s not just calculations, it’s also the sophistication of the FTL engine.

You know, I think these Colonial humans aren’t exactly the brightest bulbs in the chandelier. Most of their technology seems to be Earth-style, circa the 70’s & 80’s. It’s almost as if, these mythical Lords of Kobol were the ones who had the technology, and the understanding of it. For whatever reason they passed on, all they were able to leave humans were some blueprints for a basic FTL engine that could, if you carefully followed them, work. Even though humans don’t actually understand how it works. It’s like if you gave someone blueprints for making a radio & sent them to Radio Shack for the parts. If they carefully followed the blueprints, they could make a working radio even though they have no idea what radio waves are or how they work. As far as they’re concerned, it just works by magic.

13

But before they discover Poor Man’s Kevin Spacey is a Toaster-in the mini-series he was their PR dude and he’s doing the final tour of the Galactica before it’s de-commissioned and explaining that the reason the technology onboard is so primitive was in order to thwart the Cylons from breaking into their system the first time around. After the first wars they severely restricted advances in technology and research because of their bad experiences. Maybe that’s why their tech is crap compared to the Cylons? (It’s not like they got a chance to upgrade their FTL drives prior to the 2nd attack, right?)

14

Yep. The Galactica is a deliberately retro ship, because the humans found out the hard way in the first Cylon war that Cylons are nearly unbeatable hackers. I’m guessing the Galactica probably also has relatively old electronics because the more bleeding-edge microprocessor technology is, the more fragile and susceptible to EMP disturbance it tends to be. The Galactica must withstand one or more direct hits with a nuclear warhead. Stem to stern, it must be incredibly hardened against concussion, radiation, and EMPs. And nothing can be digitally networked, because otherwise an heuristic Cylon virus could infiltrate every system on the ship and literally turn a battlestar against its crew and neighboring spacecraft. Even for the minutes that the Galactica’s computers were networked after an errant jump separated it from the fleet, the Cylons were able to plant an undetectable “logic bomb” which was about to do exactly that. If it weren’t for a total wipe of the Galactica’s memory, and Sharon plugging herself in to disable the cylons who were simply waiting for the Galactica to vent its atomosphere and open fire on the fleet, all would have been lost.

I assume, based on the use of the analog phones even aboard the Pegasus, that some of this caution was handed down even to later-generation battlestars, which must have been built decades after the armistice. There must be some limit to the networking, or presumably the Cylons would have also pulled a logic bomb attack on the Pegasus during one of its attacks while tailing the basestars that persued Galactica and the Fleet. What I don’t get is how the Pegasus managed to avoid the fate of the rest of the Colonial military spacecraft, i.e. complete deactivation through the backdoor Dr. Baltar unwittingly afforded them. Unlike the Galactica, it was new enough to have the software. I guess after escaping by blind jump, they could have figured out that they had to retrofit their computers with an older version of the “CNP” software than the one Baltar and Six had written. But how did they even get to blind jump in the first place? Wouldn’t the Cylons have deactivated the docked ships first, and then bombed the crap out of them? Admiral Cain said the ship was getting some maintainance done, so maybe some key computer systems were offline? Or maybe it didn’t have the new CNP yet?

15

[QUOTE=Loopydude]
Galactica’s computers were networked after an errant jump separated it from the fleet,
[/QUOTE]

Otherwise good science in this show. Cables for the network, not a wireless access point in sight. :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=Loopydude]

What I don’t get is how the Pegasus managed to avoid the fate of the rest of the Colonial military spacecraft,
[/QUOTE]

I believe her network was down for maintenance. Someone who remembers better than I will be along before I finish typing.

16

[QUOTE=carnivorousplant]
Otherwise good science in this show. Cables for the network, not a wireless access point in sight. :rolleyes:
[/QUOTE]

Yeah, who knows. Obviously the Galactica has wireless communications, though it’s not obvious how they’re interfaced with the Galactica’s computers, if at all. Maybe when creating the network a low-level system connected to the wireless became part of the network, and provided a portal of sorts. I imagine we could catch the writers with their pants down on many such points, but there’s probably always a weaselly excuse like the one I’ve conconcted.

17

[QUOTE=Loopydude]
Maybe when creating the network a low-level system connected to the wireless became part of the network,
[/QUOTE]

I really don’t want to do this like I did in Trek, :slight_smile: but I can’t help it.
It they’d had some wireless access point (for lack of a better term) it would already have a Cylon virus; whatever they were using would already be compromised. Maybe one of the USB cables Felix…

(Felix? WTF kind of name is Felix? How the hell can the Cylons be scared of Felix? “By Your Command, Dude, don’t worry about it, I’ve sure Felix left a wireless access point connected. Metalic Snicker.” At least Trek had manly names, like “Sulu”. But I digress.)

…One of the USB cables Felix Gaeta used in building his network was already a Cylon device. Perhaps the Toasters couldn’t dectect the signal far enough away to track the Colonists, like nuclear weapons a light year away.

There, apologist for Galactica. Ron! Send money.

18

Wow, you guys are a wealth of knowledge. My co-workers all mock me for being so obessed with this show…so I really don’t have anyone to talk to about it (mlerose, I think is still finishing up renting from Netflix so I don’t want to spoil it for her)

Exactly what do the Cylons hope to get out of their breeding programs? Do you guys think this is part of the “plan” that always used to be referred to in the intro??

I’ve always been curious as to how Sharon II told Helo that she had “memories” of the Chief based on Sharon I’s experiences with him. Doesn’t that defy the principal that they aren’t networked copies-that they have to “die” prior to their memories being uploaded into the new clones? Sharon I didn’t “die” until Callie shot her, at which point Sharon II was already in existence-so I thought only the newest Sharons and those back on Caprica would have memories of Sharon’s times with the Chief. Who knows, though, I guess since Sharon I was being remotely controlled somehow they might have been taking her memories as time went on.

19

[QUOTE=Alistair McCello]
Slightly off-topice but despite the fact that she is one of my favorite characters in the show I thought that the whole recovery from cancer plot point was a big mistake on the part of the writers. It seemed to completely destroy her position as the prophet/religious zealot which is what made her character so interesting.
[/QUOTE]

I’m probably going to have to rent the episode again, but, if memory serves me, the Scroll of Pythia (which has been spot on up to now) states a leader with a “wasting disease” will help the “caravan of the heavens” find Earth, but will die, à la Moses upon Nebo, before they reach their destination. I do not believe, however, that Pythia specified the cause of death. One would assume the leader dies of the “wasting disease”, but I don’t think it’s literally stated that that is in fact what kills the leader. So, presumably, Laura Roslyn might still get whacked before they find Earth, making her still eligible to be the prophesied Leader.

I must confess I find that explanation pretty unsatisfying myself, but I can’t see any other way out of it. It’s inconsistencies like this that make me think the show might be heading into uncharted waters much of the time. Does R.D. Moore have even a rough sketch of the future of the series mapped out? Up to now, BG has been flying on a wing and a prayer, hoping to be renewed on a per-season basis. They had no idea when they made the mini-series if the show had any future. You see some clear signs altered plans if you pay attention. Note how they rather unceremoniously dropped the Boxey character early in Season 1. Also, I read somplace that Helo was originally supposed to die on Caprica, but they kept him alive because he was hunky and generated a lot of interest for the show.

Just imagine: Sci-fi-watching man-lovers the world over dig Karl Agathon, so they bring him back for the sake of providing eye candy, and he winds up having one of the most pivotal roles in the series as father of the baby toaster. That’s pretty unsettling. I think part of the reason Season 2 was broken up into two parts was because no one knew if there would even be a full second season after the end of the first. Now there’s a full 3rd season to look forward to, and perhaps even more after that. Maybe they figured they’d kill Roslyn off early if the series had no future, but now that she’s beloved by millions of viewers, they’ve got to find some way to keep her on.

I really hope Moore and Co. have some clue where this is all going, and they’re not just milking the successs for all its worth and willing to sacrifice all continuity and sense of purpose in the process. My fear is BG might devolve into an X-Files-style disappoinment, lingering forever with nowhere to go while personnel squabbles and lack of direction turn it into a shadow of its former self. Maybe we were led to believe that “The Truth Is Out There”, but I have my doubts now that Chris Carter had the foggiest clue what the truth was, and ran out of steam years before the show finally collapsed in a heap. Witness the slapdash and pathetically unsatisfying final episode of the X-Files. That’s what happens when you can’t quite while you’re ahead. Please, please, please, R.D Moore, make sure there’s a prize for your loyal viewers in the end, keep your eyes on it, and let BG die well.

20

[QUOTE=Loopydude]
So, presumably, Laura Roslyn might still get whacked before they find Earth, making her still eligible to be the prophesied Leader.
[/QUOTE]

That must brighten her day.
Maybe, to paraphrase Rhett Butler, they’re aren’t any gods or prophecies. :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=Loopydude]
I read somplace that Helo was originally supposed to die on Caprica, but they kept him alive because he was hunky and generated a lot of interest for the show.
[/QUOTE]
Do you recall how reliable that was? True, they killed off the aide because he got another series.

[QUOTE=Loopydude]

I really hope Moore and Co. have some clue where this is all going, and they’re not just milking the successs for all its worth and willing to sacrifice all continuity and sense of purpose in the process.
[/QUOTE]

He’s too cool to do that.
Too cool.
Keep repeating,
Too Cool.
All together now,
Too Cool