It was specially foolish after 2016 when Trump did exactly that, did Bernie think the Democrats would just sit back and let the same exact thing happen to them as the GOP?
I mentioned before that Sanders did the same thing in 2016: tried to run the Obama primary strategy a second time by racking up big caucus and small state wins while keeping things close enough in large states to gain an overall majority. But, again, this time Clinton wasn’t caught flat-footed and didn’t have the same “Campaign will be over on Super Tuesday, who needs to plan further?” mindset. The Sanders campaign feels like a lesson in generals wanting to fight the last war.
That’s part of the problem. An “I don’t mind if I lose as long as I get my message out there” campaign isn’t what Democrats want.
Not to mention the Democratic primaries and Republican primaries work very differently. Republican primaries are mostly winner take all. Democratic primaries are proportional. So you can do that sort of thing much easier in the Republican primary.
“What Democrats want” isn’t at the top of my Christmas list, and I’m not sure how it’s relevant to this particular subthread of conversation.
Again, I don’t see this as a team sport, where it’s for entertainment and loyalty to the sports team is of any significance. I see politics as a way to distribute power and as a matter of paramount importance. If Sanders is trying to achieve a more equitable distribution of power (by, for example, increasing access to health care resources by low-income Americans), but if this isn’t what Democrats want, I’m totally cool with that.
And when I suggest that winning isn’t his victory condition, I suggest that in the context of a discussion about the Democratic presidential primary. If you try to broaden that in any way, it stops being related to what I said.
Many people find elections and politics entertaining.
Not to mention, I dont find sports at all entertaining.
And many do sports just for the exercise.
Umm, no. That’s not what your cite says.
In fact, only Sanders supported his Crazy plan gold plated cadillac plan, which he named “Medicare for all” even tho it had nothing whatsoever to do with Medicare. Even Warren stopped supporting it.
Many others supported REAL “Medicare for more people” plans, and lots supported some sort of UHC or Public option.
So, remember- Even if someone says “Yes, I support giving Medicare to everyone”, that doesnt mean they supported Sanders Plan- since sanders plan had nothing whatsoever to do with Medicare.
No, they weren’t. His ideas were popular with about 28% of Democratic voters, which means popular with about 10% of all voters. 10% isnt “massively”
Sure, most voters want some sort of UHC or at least a public option. That doesn’t mean they want Sanders gold plated cadillac plan. And it was more popular until people found out the details- because of course- the devil is in the details.
I want UHC. I will accept a public option. To me, asking for Sanders M4A plan is like wanting a Unicorn that shits soft serve ice cream- sure that would be fantastic- but it isnt realistic.
Wow. Okay, you got me there.
Conservative group Lincoln project endorsed Biden today. Bill Kristol is one of the founders of that group.
Actually it does. A majority of candidates want M4A but also were cognizant that it wouldn’t happen like magic, and they had a path towards it. This is still the same endgame, just a different way to achieve it.
"Over the course of the primary, the number of top-tier candidates aligning with Bernie Sanders on Medicare for All has dwindled. Pete Buttigieg and others who previously endorsed the policy backed away from it or rolled out their own more incremental alternatives that they argue are cheaper and preserve a role for private insurers. "
You are confusing a desire for some sort of UHC as equaling support of sanders plan.
And many wanted medicare for everyone, not that same as sanders deceptively named “medicare for all” .
In the end, it was only Sanders, with Warren coming close.
I worked with a few 2016 Sanders people on the Pete campaign. The number thing they talked about was how to turn the large rallies into large number of votes. The problem is with infrequent and new voters is translating their enthusiasm into votes which is hard and boring work. Everyone wants to listen to a rousing speech and hear cool music. But when you find yourself registered to vote at your parents house and need to jump through hoops to get an absentee ballot (and return it) that becomes work. Proudly being registered as no party preference because you’re above that two party bullshit makes you feel smugly superior until you run into a closed primary and it’s too late to change. And, the endless conspiracy theories spewed by Sanders and his Twitter mob make it easy to believe that the whole thing is rigged.
Also, at least in 2016, Bernie definitely had a group of people that would follow him around the country like he was the Grateful Dead and couch surf. That’s great for rally attendance but doesn’t help the vote.
Anyway, it’s over. Bernie will never run for President again. 2024 will be definitely different.
Ah, yes, push that fucking window. Yet another reason why Shitbag Sanders is irrelevant. But ok, I’ll happily let Bernie and his nutjobs write the platform. Once it’s printed it’ll be used as toilet paper since platforms are useless in US politics. You send the activists to go write the platform while the adults plan the convention (in normal times)
Like it or not, President Biden will have 3 things on his agenda. Covid, the economy and restoring foreign relations. If Bernie chooses to work in the Senate, then I’m sure Biden will sign any piece of progressive legislation.
Just like winning the primary clearly wasn’t a big part of the Bernie team’s Christmas list. Which is why they couldn’t be trusted with the nomination.
That’s cool.
Hey, Left Hand of Dorkness, I’ve started a thread to explore this issue. As a furriner, I’m always trying to understand your political system and this post made me wonder still more.
Could the Democratic Party have kept Bernie off the [ballot for the] Primaries?
Sooo…you, and me, and all of us here in this thread are reading and commenting as much as we do about politics because, despite how much we might prefer to read or watch some entertaining diversion, we are principled and high-minded enough to devote attention to this as our civic duty? Nothing about it being an entertainment for us? Riiight. :dubious:
You do realize the saying “politics ain’t beanbag” is not based on an unspoken premise “because beanbag is a sport, and politics definitely ain’t a sport”? 
This is an interesting picture you paint, where a U.S. senator, whose delegates were successful in 2017 in changing many DNC rules, is not one of the people who “hold power”.
I believe precisely the opposite is true. Not that he would ever admit it, probably not even to himself, so it’s fruitless to argue the point.
ORLY? What about when he voted for Obamacare despite its not being single payer and not even having a public option? (BTW, “decades” is hyperbole, unless you meant “in Congress” rather than “in the Senate”, where he has served for only 14 years, not even a decade and a half.)
This whole post is made of win, and I literally LOL’d at “pushing the stupid button”. But I do have a slight nitpick with your last point. I think it’s quite possible that he DID “get those people to actually vote”, assuming you meant that “those people” are the people at his rallies. It’s just that even a large rally represents a relatively small number of actual voters, and no matter how enthusiastic they are, they each only get to vote once. Perhaps the implicit assumption behind what you are saying is that every voter at a rally is erroneously thought by some (not you) to be like a scientific polling sample, representing X number of voters who are not at the rally. So by that thinking, if you get 10X the attendance at your rally, you will get 10X the votes on primary day. But of course that isn’t true: Biden always got meager attendance at his events, but he got a ton of people to march to the polls and vote for him–which is what matters in the end.
Well said. You and I had dramatically differing goals in that I thought it would have been a huge mistake to nominate Bernie. I’m very glad Bernie made this tactical error. But whatever side you’re on, you really have to concede that especially right after winning Nevada, it was a huge own-goal to go on Twitter and on TV at his rallies and taunt the Democratic mainstream “Nyaahh nyeahh, you can’t stop us”. :smack: And then it’s a bad look for his followers to get their noses all bent out of joint when the reaction to that is “Oh yeah? Just watch us.”
Good point. For a supposedly “principled” leader, Bernie was deeply dishonest in the way he marketed his gold-plated, Christmas-tree single payer plan.
I hadn’t even thought of this possibility but it totally makes sense.
Thank god. Even AOC seems like she’s coming around to being a little more pragmatic. Give her a few more years to smooth down the rough edges, and she might be a good candidate for 2028 or 2032.
LOL, exactly. It’s almost kind of cute, like the kid in the carseat with one of those little plastic steering wheels, who thinks he’s driving the car. But as long as it makes them feel like they’re doing something, sure: knock yourself out, kids. (And no: I wouldn’t say any of this on Twitter, where it could actually have a chance to “go viral” in a bad way and do some damage. It’s nice to be able to honestly vent my spleen in this little corner of the Internet without fear of that kind of backlash.)
Yeah, I asked my Bernie Bro youngest brother a few weeks ago to choose one thing. Just one thing. Of Bernie’s goals that he would want. If Bernie cut a deal that he’d support Biden in return for Biden committing to one part of Bernie’s platform to honestly push for.
He wouldn’t choose. He’s an all or nothing guy, apparently. When I texted him about Bernie’s endorsement and whether that endorsement and Biden’s acceptance of $15/hour minimum wage changed his feelings he said it didn’t and he still supported Bernie and would never support Biden. Fucking Moron.
I mean, I suppose I get it. He’s hurting. Back after New Hampshire, he was texting me means about ‘it’s happening!’ and such and to see it taken away by actual political maneuvering must really smart. But I’ve told him since he first got political in 2015 - Bernie woke him up so there’s that - that politics is a contact sport. We play for keeps, here. But he continues to feel that he and Bernie were somehow robbed. He’s mistaking the support he sees among his circle or friends and his online places as indicating real, national-level support that was both reliable and broad-based.
I just don’t know how to get through to him.
Same with my 20yo son.