Yeah, my Bernie Bro buddy had bizarre views on his popularity. He honestly thought Bernie had majority support throughout the minority voters. “So why didn’t he do better in South Carolina?” “Oh that state is super conservative”. Alright. And he simultaneously was pissed that Buttigieg and Klobuchar dropped out to screw Bernie but also didn’t think that Bernie needed the split field.
Senator Elizabeth Warren endorses Joe Biden for president:
I would have told him to push the panic button after NH, which should have been the ultimate layup. Bernie won it barely but tied for delegates with Pete. Bernie crushed Clinton in 2016. ‘But it’s a big field!!!’ Yeah, that should tell you that a lot of Bernie’s 2016 support was ‘Not Clinton!!!’
So you’re saying Biden built a better team. Yes, he did. Can’t disagree with that. Biden built the team that actually won, by getting more votes.
Sanders is in the position he is because he chose to be. He chose not to be a member of the party he proposed to lead, and chose not to build much in the way of political allies. Those are things that hurt you when running to be a party’s nominee. He lost because of his own decisions.
Democrats who support M4A are a dime a dozen, and he failed to convince them.
The problem with Bernie Sanders isn’t ideas. Most of his ideas are quite popular. The problem with Bernie Sanders is Bernie Sanders; too many people dislike him, distrust him, and don’t think he’s be a capable President.
Kind of this. I’d be happy to have medicare for all, although I would prefer to follow the Swiss or Netherlands model. But I don’t think Bernie would be a good president.
Bernie’s version of M4A ended with exactly one candidate supporting it- Bernie. Warren started out supporting it, then changed to a more modest program - that she said might hopefully end in Bernies plan* someday. *
This statement is really vague. Do you mean Democratic politicians, or Democratic voters? Do you mean M4AwWi, or do you mean literally M4A?
These aren’t academic questions: they radically change the truth of what you’re saying, as well as its significance.
I read it as members of the party - or generic lefties.
The real sad part about the M4A fracas is an economic one - and not the one you’re thinking. It’s the difference between absolutists and incrementalists.
The real advantage of M4A isn’t necessarily that it’s good, or that it’ll cover people or whatever. Those are nice but there are other universal healthcare options that would fill those same roles.
No, the real advantage to pushing M4A is that it is EASY. It’s easy to present and sell. It takes an existing federal program - one that is already very popular with those who use it - and expand those eligible. There’s not a lot of explanation necessary there. Voters already know of the plan and are aware of people already using it.
Where the fight becomes tragic between the absolutists and the incrementalists is that we’d end up in essentially the same place either way. Establish M4A NOW and we get a pushback. Open up a Medicare opt-in and other time most - or all - will eventually opt in and we’ll have achieved M4A who want it and have given people a choice that they can feel good about. That’s how you win people’s support, not by imposing something.
Exactly. There’s a tendency among hard core Bernistas to sneer at the people that are ‘too stupid’ to realize they have the worst health care in the developed world. They should all rise up out of the cubicle, grab the pitchforks and torches and take to the streets now!!!
Except it doesn’t work that way in the real world. No one likes getting the premium increase when they get the email about annual enrollment for benefits. But, that’s far better than when the entire health care plan is changing. My former company slimily made a change to a high deductible plan as the ACA was being rolled out knowing the average worker bee would blame it all on Obamacare which had nothing to do with the change.
And, perhaps the Bernie folk should look at a calendar and a map and realize this isn’t England after WWII and we can’t just elect an Atlee and get universal health care overnight.
So, yes, incrementalism is all that will work. Not so radical change backfired with Hillary’s health care plan of the 1990s and even the ACA has to be watered down to get it through a Democratic supermajority
Nah it’s bad you can lose it at any moment if you even have it that its tied to your job and any pre-exisiting conditions and any of that might kill you or your kids or your partner. Not cool.
Boy, you’re going to have to translate that for me. I can’t follow.
Are you saying that the ACA is employer dependent? Because I know Medicate isn’t.
ACA isn’t, as well. I’m using an ACA plan and haven’t had to worry about any employer issues during my time on it.
Sorry was just in chat with some friends the US. Epilepsy not covered. Casual workers who had a comfortable living, they are fucked now.
What can they do? They can’t afford COBRA for long and don’t know what to do
That’s still not responsive to my question.
If you’re talking about the current system of employer-based plans - which we really weren’t - you’re right. I think most of us here would acknowledge that going forward with such is impractical and suboptimal.
But we were discussing Medicare and the ACA. Neither of which are employer sponsored and neither of which can you be kicked off for losing your job. COBRA doesn’t apply to them, either.
We are in a global crisis, please help everyone have access to health care, you said you are up in the Democrat party or have been.
What is with people pretending to be jolly about not understanding things?
Good night but nomeansnoare always good to listen to
Except that sanders plan- also called M4A- has nothing whatsoever to do with Medicare. Not even a little bit.
So, when you say “M4A” we dont know if you are talking about sanders crazy gold plated cadillac plan, or Real Medicare for all. Night and day.
Your posts make no sense.
Either sanders crazy gold plated cadillac plan,** or** Real Medicare for all- both would provide healthcare for all regardless of employment status and regardless of pre-existing conditions. You cant "lose it at any moment ".
Were you posting drunk or something? Mind you, I wouldn’t blame you.
The one where poor Americans get health care
Medicaid.
Medical.
ACA.