What method of training have you had the most success with?
In another thread, the Koehler method was mentioned. Did some research on Amazon, and it sounds good.
I have a 3 y.o. Chow Chow who deserves better training than she has received. I have tried a treat training method, but she is smart enough to tell when I have treats on me.
I googled “Koehler method” and (of course) found some positive and negative things about it.
What about that method appeals to you? What are you expecting from your dog? Are you looking for basic obedience skills (sit, stay, heel), or something more advanced?
Our dog is also very smart, and she is benefitting greatly from her training. We first tried a more traditional method - completely praise-driven - but using a chokecollar for corrections (which I hated doing) - and it was all focused on basic obedience skills. It worked but it wasn’t a lot of fun for any of us. We didn’t enjoy the practice or the classes.
We are currently trying a slightly different approach - it doesn’t use collar corrections - it uses a combination of treats and praise for rewards - and it is all based on positive reinforcement - the dog never feels punished or intimidated. It is a combination of learning ‘manners’ - like not rushing out the door, not chasing the cat, not grabbing things off the coffee table, not pulling on her leash during walks - and basic obedience.
I personally feel better about this second method, because if I had kids, it would be how I would want to teach them basic life skills - with praise and understanding and practice and reinforcement and gentleness. I don’t know if it has a specific name, but those are the general principles.
Good luck.
I had excellent results with the Koehler method. But honestly I think it depends on the dog. Joe, my border collie/black lab cross is smart beyond measure. And treats mean nothing to him. Calling him nicely and praising him meant nothing. He came if he felt like it, he sat if he felt like it. If he felt like having a treat he might sit just long enough to get the treat and the he was up and running again.
Once we started taking the Koehler classes it took two weeks to achieve what other methods had failed to do for 6 years. Collar corrections got his attention better than anything else we tried. Of course we always praise him once he’s done what we wanted even if he needed a correction to get there. His spirit wasn’t broken, just contained a little. And actually we go for more walks and play time at the dog park than we ever did before.
Koehler is also a basis for continued training in areas like agility and competion classes. So if you’re interested in that, it’s definitely a good place to start.
I think it’s like kids. Some kids do just fine with rewards and incentives. Others need time-outs and being grounded to get them to go what is expected of them. You just have to figure out what works for your dogs and go with that.
Oh god no, not Koehler. Please. Nooooo. Well, he’s got some good stuff, some decent ideas, but he’s SERIOUSLY outdated.
I’m a dog trainer (service/guide/therapy/SAR/K9/arson). I use a variety of different tools - not a ‘single approach’. I strongly recommend operant conditioning (find Karen Pryor’s books!) along with some of the old classic approach to training.
A lot depends on the dog. Do you have a dog who is eager to please? Food motivated? Toy motivated? This will certainly help you pick the right training technique.
Koehler, for me, produced obedient dogs who were scared shitless and obeyed commands because they were afraid. OC produced service dogs who loved to learn, who could learn new skills (like doing the laundry!) in less than a week flat… mostly because they had learned to offer behaviors rather than be manipulated into a specific thing…
Ok, what do you do with a dog who’s not really smart, extremely food motivated but gets too darn excited to sit still? She’s a Chow mix, pound rescue, approximately 7-8 years old who has a basic grasp of sit and lay but I have trouble with anything more than that. She knows her rewards are treats (praise means little to this dog, oddly enough) and well, she has a one track mind. All she can process is she’s going to get a treat. I just want her to calm down long enough to listen. She’s a great dog…she’s just not the brightest crayon in the box. Any suggestions?
I recommend the book Don’t Shoot the Dog. You should be able to find it on Amazon.
Clicker training. Talk to local trainers and take her for a class. Nothing can replace the weekly lesson thing - honestly - I even still do it with some of my dogs in training (even though I used to teach obedience! I have smart but high energy dogs who are highly food and toy motivated. Clicker training worked wonders with them - the would not have responded well to the jerk-and-pop techniques that Koehler was all about. Not to mention that he used to advocate people almost drown their dogs to break a dog’s will until it was “fearing for its life”. Ducttaping a dog’s muzzle shut with a piece of whatever it was that he/she had stolen was also one of his techniques to discourage inappropriate chewing… shudder
We have one dog here - a border collie x sheltie rescue - who is not exactly the brightest light in the christmas tree. It takes him a long time to learn anything new. Clicker training has helped a lot - he couldn’t have put up with the pressure of J&P training because, well, he wouldn’t have GOTTEN it, and it would have made him even more neurotic.
I’ll second the recommendation of “Don’t Shoot the Dog” and add to that list “Culture Clash”.
What do you recommend for a dog with a heart condition who gets tired fast and no interest in treats or praise? I’m about ready to try shock collars to stop her barking all the time. Yeah, it’s a breed thing but she’ll still get taken to the pound if the neighbours complain…
Silentgoldfish - start with a citronella collar rather than a shock collar, especially if she has a heart condition. Consult your vet. You can also talk to your vet to get the name of a local behaviorist and see what they recommend in your particular situation.
I’m just glad this didn’t turn into a great debate. Dog training seems to be as touchy a subject as spanking in child discipline
For a layperson on the outside looking in, there seems to be a lot of different camps. All tout that their method is the best, and that the others are ineffective and sometimes cruel. It is very difficult to separate the truth from the marketing. “There is nothing wrong with correcting your dog. You are the pack leader, and you have to enforce you will on the other pack members” Okay, that make sense. “Correcting you dog does nothing in the long run, the dog has to want to do what you tell him” Gee that makes sense too, now I’m confused.
I didn’t realize that the Koehler method advocated duct taping a dogs muzzle. I think we a had a pit topic on that some time ago.
I would like to mix and match methods, but an inexperienced newbie mixing and matching is very different than an expert like Elenfair mixing and matching
Sian, my purebred Chow Chow, is a good girl. However, she is very independent and strong willed. Here are the specific problems.
She has always had a tendency to run away from us. We can never walk with her off leash, and I would like to. Some people even advocate that Chows must never be allow off-leash.
She is very dog focused. Inside the house, she is treat focused. Outside if she sees another dog, she is focused like a laser. I can wave treats in front of her nose and she will ignore it.
She is very wary of strangers and goes “guard mode” at night. This means a lot of barking at night at the slightest rustle outside, and when someone comes over.
We don’t have kids, yet but I have to have better control of her before our first child arrives.
Your best bet for Sian would be to take her to some classes. Call around. Talk to trainers. Decide who you want to work with - avoid those who are total fanatics of ANY method. Aim for those who also do behavioral consulting, and who aren’t afraid to use the “correct tool for the dog”. I mean, I do clicker training almost 100%… but I DO use some negative feedback if I have to (depending on the dog). I have force fetched service dogs if I had to (using the ear pinch method). I’ve used a pinch collar on a dog who needed the intensity to understand that no, I wasn’t kidding. Then again, I have a dog here who is 100% OC trained because he is so soft-tempered that you look at him the wrong way and he takes it personally and shuts down.
Talk to your vet, ask for a behaviorist reference. Also I can ask through the trainers’ networks and help you find someone in MS who could help you troubleshoot…
Thank you for the advice, Elenfair
I know there is no method that works 100% for all dogs. Is there any consensus in the industry as to what method works for most dogs?
Never mind. I see that you prefer Operant Conditioning
Thanks for the advice, Elenfair. I’ve never tried clicker training before but I’ll certainly look into it. Morgan’s a sweet dog but she’s prone to being aloof (and weirdly neurotic) and, as I mentioned, praise doesn’t really motivate her. She’s the first dog I’ve had that is like that. Since she’s a rescue, I’ve no clue what her early years were like. My last dog was a beautiful, extremely smart labrador. She was scarily smart and was highly motivated by praise. All the years I was fortunate enough to be with her made me realize why labs make such excellent service dogs. Point at something and Sammie would be off to get it, happily so. But, Morgan? She’ll just look at the end of your finger. We tell her she’s as dumb as a rock but we love the heck out of her. She’s a goofy little dog.
I’ll stop now before I start telling story after story about my dogs. Thanks again! 
Training a chow chow? BWAHAHAHAHA. You have your work cut out for you.
I am on my second chow chow and, as you know, they are aloof and stubborn dogs. In my experience, chow chows could give a shit if you praise them and no treat on the planet is worth them stooping to do a trick if they’re not in the mood.
The teacher in my puppy class said that there is a difference between a stupid dog and an untrainable dog and chow chows are not stupid.
Haj
I never came across those methods while taking the Koehler classes or reading his book. As a matter of fact there was no “punishment” of any kind. Just the leash correction. Then praise when he did what he was supposed to. Perhaps the sort of animal torture you mention was practiced at one time, but I’ve not come across anyone advocating it.
Sorry, this is Rhiannon8404. I didn’t realize my husband was still signed on.
Rhiannon - this is a good thing… Most Koehler trainers I know are like what you describe - they’ve known what to take and what to leave from his method. This is one of the reasons why being a do-it-yourselfer can be tough when it comes to dog training and why I recommend people who are new to the whole song and dance to find a training school they like and go for classes. If you stick to Koehler’s books, you’ll be horrified 
I’m not a big fan of leash correction (jerk and pop training) though it has worked well with a couple of really HARD dogs (hard temperament, not hard to train) I have worked with.
Right now, it seems that people ARE big into OC, and that’s okay by me (in that it’s harder for the newbie to really screw up a dog with this method whereas you ca do significant damage to a dog through a J&P method). It seems to work for most dogs - those who are neurotic, those who are just not terribly bright, those who are really HIGH energy and very intense… and everything in between. It works on the principle of offered behaviors being rewarded.
Strangely enough, this metnod works really well with children, too Tee hee.
I too would suggest taking actual training in a weekly class; with other dogs as opposed to private training if possible.
Talk to several trainers if you can and go visit a class. See if they’ll let you bring your dog to observe; a few months ago when my husbad was in training with his Golden Retriever, Jake (first time for both of them), a woman brought her extremely unruly boxer mix through on week 3 during a recently learned down-stay. All of the dogs in class looked at that foolish dog lunging on its leash, looked back at their “leaders” and just stayed put.
Being with other dogs seemed to help some of the more unruly/agressive-appearing dogs understand that everybody is held to account–even them. Also, they love the socialization and watching your dog interact with others in a controlled environment can tell you a lot about how to train them.
You can modify the training methods somewhat to suit your needs also; our trainer uses a specific hand signal for down that doesn’t work well with Jake (she’s head-shy) so we use a different signal that doesn’t make her cower. Jake needs very little correction for anything and is almost completely praise driven. Loki, my little Golden, is not praise driven; we are having to modify our methods a little for her.