OK you have a deal. When you are our first musical, acting, artistic legal qualified playwright who becomes our Prime Minister and thus a celebrity, then I will start stalking you!.
Promise…
Hang on a minute you’re not Tony Blair in drag are you? Musician (check - those dodgy guitarist photos), acting (check - a politician after all), lawyer (check), PM… :eek:
Thanks for the kind thoughts - been here once before so know it will be OK in the end.
#1 sucks, but in my case, I don’t ever make a move unless I get some sort of hint that my feelings might be returned.
As far as the other two options, yeah, better to have loved and lost than never. Having gone through those situations more than once in my life, it’s easier to remind myself that I’ll love again.
“Making a move” and “being in love” are a world away Wilhemina. Most of us would not make a move unless you get at least the impression it is welcome.
Taking of welcomes - welcome to the SD message boards!
IMHO you shouldn’t think yourself in love unless you are actually getting something significant emotionally returned, otherwise you are just in an infatuation as Urban Ranger suggested.
Yeah, I agree. So if I don’t “make a move”, then it’s harder to fall “in love” with somebody who doesn’t return my feelings. However, if they made the move to establish something, and I fell for them, there’s a better chance of having something mutual.
I think the only instance where you could be “in love” with somebody who doesn’t return your feelings is when you fall for a good friend. I’ve never done this, but I’ve had good friends who’ve claimed they were in love with me and it was kind of sad when I couldn’t return their feelings and the friendships usually deteriorated.
Oh, and thanks for the welcome. There seem to be some pretty intelligent people here.
As a slight hi-jack, does anyone think there’s a time by which you should have fallen in love with someone? I’m asking because I’ve being seeing this guy for a couple of months now, and my friends seem to think it really odd that I haven’t declared myself “in love” with him yet. I like him a lot, but to me it’s too soon to talk about love, plus I’m naturally cautious about letting myself fall for him because I’ve been hurt before. My friends seem to think that if I haven’t fallen for him yet, I’m probably not going to. Any thoughts?
They are crazy. “Should”? It is whatever feels right for you - you’ll find in other threads dopers who were engaged with days of meeting and are happily together still and every other shade of commitment time first.
Don’t let your GFs effect you one bit on this - by the sound of it you 'aint going to. Good for you, girl!
Nothing is worse to the recipient than finding out later those three little words slipped out just to get you into bed, him into bed, just to see what they sound like, to keep you both together etc. etc. Keeping them in a box on a high shelf and use only when you are sure in your own mind is my 2c worth.
You can have a great time together even if you think it is probably not going to happen, but if he is getting in deep and you KNOW it is not going to happen then you owe it to him to let him know.
On my current situation we were finding out about each other for almost seven months for before I realised I was in love. Four months later we are finished. I give her the credit that she never told me she was in love when she wasn’t, I just think she could have told me she was sure she wasn’t quite a bit earlier…
Its been good to talk about this for me, thanks for those with advice, especially wendyrules.
Herge, it always helps to get other peoples’ opinions, experience and advice. At times, seeking advice can end up with you having to sift through a plethora of conflicting ideas… but in the long run that can be a definate advantage.
By reading others’ opinions, may at least make you see things from a different perspective.
I hope she’s not gone too long and that the rekindling of your relationship upon her return, will be wonderful. 
Love is never easy and I can’t really answer. Love can hurt so badly that you just want to lay down and die on the spot but when it’s a two-way street, it’s the friggin’ best! I’ve been a cheater and been cheated on, heart’s been stomped on and chewed up a few times (karma?). I think unrequited love is an absolute TORMENT! That is the Pain of all pains, IMHO.
Aaahh yes, SanguineSpider - I’m a firm believer in karma! It’s good that you have perhaps recognised that fact. There’s another lesson in life… potentially, what goes around comes around, as hard as it may be to recognise that.
Unrequited love would DEFINATELY the hardest of things to endure. Thankfully, I haven’t had to deal with that.
Have to echo Rashak Mani: when it comes to love, it’s much worse to regret inaction rather than action. I’ve been really hurt a few times, but I’ve always walked away knowing that I gave it my best shot.
I don’t think love can be forced, and it doesn’t mean being a doormat, but why love at all if you’re going about it half-assed? Experiencing love and loss is one of the worst feelings ever, but it’s better than feeling nothing at all. At least you come away knowing that you are capable of feeling and showing love, and hopefully you learn some valuable lessons for the future.
“Love” is fine but not when compared to the costs of obtaining it. All “loss” does is free up resources that you were otherwise losing. It is quite obvious that love and loss is not an economical choice.
I began my experiences with love late. I pretended to everyone else (including myself) that I was straight until my early twenties, when I put things together and began having relationships with men. I saw the movie “Far From Heaven” when the husband confesses to the wife that he is homosexual, and in doing so, realizes he never knew what love felt like before. It was the same, and just as shocking for me.
That having been said, it was horrible to recall that phrase after I’d lost someone. I’m old enough that I had people I knew lose their partners from AIDS. I myself never got infected, never lost anyone this way. I’d also always had this idea that I would meet someone and we’d love each other in this harsh world that can be so cold to outsiders, protect each other.
Losing someone to a relationship breaking up was the worst thing I’d ever felt. I tried as hard as I could, but it slipped away from me. It felt like being thrown into acid, that all my nerves were at the surface. I got so depressed that I had to go on antidepressants. I still don’t think I’ve completely gotten over it. Then, someone asked me if he was the “love of my life,” as if I’d been given the one thing I was supposed to have for the rest of my life and I’d lost it. Tough luck. I was going to go through life wearing a prosthetic heart, a cosmetic soul.
Well, I got over it, the way everyone else does. I didn’t feel depressed anymore. I fell in love again. He’d been like my family, since I’d gone through a bad family life, but I connected to others again. I understood what thing meant, and the world took on a differnent meaning for me. It was like a secret was revealed.
It wasn’t “better to have loved and lost” for me, but it had to happen. There wasn’t anything else, given my personal history, that would have changed the outcome. I had great, enormous highs and wonderful memories, and depths to match.
“Better to have loved and lost, than to have never loved at all?” Yes, definitely. Never having loved at all sucks big time.
By the way—Literary Dopers: am I remembering correctly that this line (not the “sucks big time” one, the other one) comes from a poem by Tennyson on the death of his close (male platonic) friend?
This is a tough one. I never even knew what love was until recently, and it’s scared me to be honest.
In my opinion and from my experience, love feels horrible. It’s painful and confusing and (disappointingly) nowhere near as nice as it appears to be in the movies.
I imagine showing up at the Pearly Gates with an unbroken heart, and St. Peter saying “You can’t come in here! You squandered the only gift we gave you!”
BTW this requires quite an imagination, as I’m an athiest. Still, in a romantic sense, I think hearts are made to be broken.
“Better” is tricky. People tend to romanticize suffering–my cynical side suggests “fetishize suffering” instead. This tends to come from suffering often being useful, after the fact, when it’s able to heal cleanly. The experience of suffering, healed clean, can lead people to greater empathy, a bigger heart, a greater capacity for what some religious folks call lovingkindness, the larger perspective that gets saddled with the term “wisdom”, and in general a greater–or at least more pleasant form of–humanity.
On the other hand, that’s those sufferings that heal clean. Suffering in itself is neutral–it’s simply a process of pain, pain being life’s signal that something’s wrong and all systems are less than optimal. Sometimes–oftentimes–it doesn’t heal cleanly, and people don’t improve from it. They get crippled in various ways–more bitterness, more suspicion, more distance from others, less empathy, and so forth.
So, true sometimes, not true other times. What I’m more confident saying is, it’s better to love than to not.
I have loved and lost, and never been told why the gentleman left my life. I’d still do it again in a heartbeat. Both having him and losing him taught me valuable lessons, about my self, about life, and about sex. I’ve benefitted from those lessons, and I intend to see to it that the next fellow I fall in love with also benefits from those lessons, including the one’s about sex! 
Napier, I like your post!
Jennyrosity, the gentleman I mentioned was a good friend for three years before I realized that he loved me and I loved him. While I hope you have more self esteem than I did in those days (it’d be difficult not to!), I’d still say don’t worry about a few months. Besides, I don’t know about you, but falling in love scared the snot out of me! It was a bit like throwing myself off a cliff. And missing the ground, to my wonderment.
Herge, good luck to you. I’m a gambler, by nature, and I would say in this case, the win is worth the risk. You can’t win if you don’t throw the dice, and if the stakes seem high, so is the reward.
CJ
Jennyrosity, I must tell you, stick to your guns on not flinging your self at the “I’m in LOOOOOVE!!” experience willy-nilly. Let it happen as it happens. When you know it is not going to happen for you, be honest with him, because you owe it to yourself and to him. On the other hand, two people easing into love slowly, as a result of wisdom gained, can build a strong foundation for something worth having.
Drastic, I tend to agree with you that pain is a neutral thing, like many sensations. It’s what you do with it that counts. I managed to learn that one early enough that I’ve never had to fight with it, but I keep tripping over the anger=bad equation. You’d think I would learn …
Napier, hee, hee! I’m not an atheist, and I can SO imagine St. Peter (looking like an impatient professor) telling me I missed the point!
Thudlow Boink, you are remembering correctly. Here is a reference to Lord Alfred Tennyson and his works, including the poem which we are gleefully (or not) spinning to our own devices. But, IMHO, good poetry allows for that, or it would have a limited appeal.
Too many interesting ideas to comment on, so let me jjust share my story.
I was a really insecure kid, the kind of nerd who, partly because of my handicap, kids pick on most, probably. Well, this one girl Angela, was always such good friends with me, even took time to learn my made up songs and do silly stuff with me on the playground. We became really close freinds. In fact, I knew from my grandparents that that was an essential of marriage, & in an assembly once I even told a friend I was going to marry her, which brought laughter from those around us.
but, you know, I said if she didn’t marry me I had someone else in mind. I cared about her, because she did the same for me. And, when she moved away in 5th grade, and told me she always liked playing with me and such the day before, it was reallys weet. I felt loss, but just to know she like me too was something special.
And yu know, I have had girlfriends off and on since (I’m 34 now), but nothing can approach the deep friendship we shared. And, in a way, I think I loved her. Maybe more as the “friend that sticketh closer than a brother” type from the Bible, but I’d say I felt love. Maybe a little different from your 3 options, Dioptre, except maybe some of option 3, but i still care about her. You know that song "The Diary,’ by Bread? i think it really typifies how I feel about her - because I wish for her and pray for her all the sweet things that she would ever desire.
Ah, yes, to have loved and lost is far sweeter, because though I never got her forwarding address (which was dumb, but I wasn't a good pen pal anyway in 5th grade), I know someone cared a lot about me, and even though i had a great, loving family, that memory - true love or not - is always there, and helps me through rough times sometimes.