I thought it was clear that she was the daughter of the head of the river tribe. Not royalty, but nobility, presumably.
Occurred to me this afternoon that we’ve got Okoye, who wants what’s best for the kingdom, but believes we achieve that through following structures even when short-term that’s awful; Nakia, who believes the structures are actively getting in the way of what’s good and who abandons them in order to engage in some individualistic do-gooding; and Shuri, who doesn’t seem much concerned about the structures at all and lets other people pay attention to them while she just creates awesomeness for people around her.
Okoye: Lawful Good
Nakia: Chaotic Good
Shuri: Neutral Good
I completely missed seeing that, if so. Weren’t the River Tribe the ones with the disk in the lower lip? Was that just for the men of the tribe?
But yeah, if she’s the daughter of one of the tribal leaders, that definitely counts as nobility.
IIRC there are several scenes, most notably the first challenge scene in the waterfall, where she is standing with the river tribe leader (lip plate), dressed in the same green. I think she is even the river tribe’s champion.
W’Kabi is the leader of the Border Tribe, so if Nakia is nobility because she’s the River Tribe leader’s daughter, W’Kabi is also nobility.
Well, Zuri at least is definitely not nobility, or the king’s brother would have recognized him. And I don’t think anything is said about Okoye (she’s the general, right?).
That, at least, I doubt: T’Challa is clear that she’s there because he wants her to be present for his big day. If she were the River Tribe’s Champion, then she’d need to be there.
Oh yeah, I forgot!
Well, Agents of SHIELD has a recurring character played by Peter MacNicol who is an Asgardian “regular guy” who enlisted for some battle a thousand years ago which took place on Earth and chose to stay here afterward, in part because he enjoyed having sex with Earth women.
There’s an extra amusement factor in that MacNicol typically plays nerdy roles, but on this show he’s a guy who could casually break Captain America in half but wouldn’t since that might cut into his getting-laid time.
I sort of wondered about that point, too: I mean, you have the most advanced African civilization, rife with high-tech and resources, yet still, they’re fundamentally tribalistic, and seem to think that the person who manages to off the old leader will make a fine new one. This just seems all too easy to interpret as, “see, even if you drop a magic rock on them, give them modern tech, and all, they’re still savages”.
A little bit of dialogue would have done lots to kill off that impression. Such as, before the challenge, “You know that this is only done for tradition. Nobody’s issued a challenge in hundreds of years. I mean, trial by combat? What are we, savages?”—followed by everyone’s shock at a challenger stepping up, and even greater shock when T’Challa actually accepts.
Other than that, I found the film quite enjoyable, if not as brilliant as current critical consensus makes it out to be. In particular, I enjoyed seeing a villain with relatable motivation, not another ‘conquer the MacGuffin to do evil stuff cause that’s how I roll’-type.
Snipping mine.
Only if you read that in to it. Personally, I feel the challenge is at the coronation for the rare occurrence that the outgoing leader has made a horrible choice, blinded for whatever reason to the incredible flaws of his/her successor, so that the others may step in and remove that person from power. Consider the challenge from the Jabari: would T’Challa have been in any sort of shape to fight a second challenge immediately afterwards? Should the “incumbent” be unsuitable to the throne, the other tribes could end that reign immediately, rather than let Wakanda be ruled by a madman. The tribes couldn’t be certain that the first challenge would succeed, or even the second, but no normal man can face four or five fresh opponents in a row without falling. Without knowing for certain who the successor would be, it raises the ceremony above petty politics, and - usually - only for the most dire of situations.
Wakanda is almost definitely an oligarchy with deep roots in tradition, as seen by T’Challa’s original coronation, and the repeated glares Shuri receives for her teenage rebellions. Outside of the coronation, there is nothing to suggest sharp divisions along tribal lines, with the exception of the Jabari. Replace the names of the tribes with political parties, and you have the bloodsport version of Western democracy. It doesn’t make it uncivilized, it simply makes it different from Western culture. Some may argue that investing the absolute leadership in a person that can only be removed by massive political and public outrage, or after four years - during which time untold bloodshed can be visited upon any number of undeserving countries - seems the height of unwise barbarism.
Obviously, some people are going to read far more into the movie in order to justify their bigotry (see the relevant Pit thread), but on the whole, it gives the viewer a number of plausible scenarios. I’d rather have that, along with the resulting moral ambiguity, than any regular railroad superhero movie like the first Iron Man. Give me Age of Ultron, Black Panther, or Civil War rather than GOOD GUY GOOD, BAD GUY BAD, BECAUSE REASONS.
Also people are missing that the whole challenge thing is not just for the position of king, but also of the Black Panther.
I haven’t read all of this thread, but something else that struck me about this movie was when the Dora Milaje was fighting Killmonger. They were coordinating their attack as a group. That’s something I almost never see. Usually unnamed guards attack one at a time and get tossed aside, whether it’s by the hero or the villain.
Good point!
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As a counterpoint, when tech sister was shooting him with her inertia gun or whatever it was, she kept walking closer to him. Step BACK you dummy. You have a ranged weapon and he doesn’t. Sheesh.
I thought so too, but maybe it’s supposed to be stronger at close range?
True, but also irrelevant to the fact that deciding a ruler by combat is really stupid.
If deciding who is the Black Panther is completely divorced from ruling, then it makes more sense. Although, I would still argue that having a moral and brave person receive the super serum is more important than giving it to someone that is good at fighting in a regular state.
She’s also just a teenager who probably has very little experience fighting anyone.
I appear to be the only one who is going to mention this, or maybe I missed it in my reading of the thread. Rhinoceros guy is really pissed at T’Challa for not bringing back Klaw, and is swayed when Killmonger DOES bring back a body. Why did T’Challa not think to mention that the whole reason he was not able to bring Klaw back was BECAUSE Killmonger interfered? It would have put a big damper on the internal unrest within Wakanda had it been mentioned. T’Challa had Klaw and was allowing him to be questioned before bringing him back for justice.
Once again a movie whose central plot revolves around the fact that people don’t talk to each other.
I thought about that while watching the movie, but I can see how it would have come across as whining, or at least, that would be the accusation.
Plus, the fact that Killmonger stole Claw from T’Challa shows that he is “better”, whatever that means.
Did T’Challa know that Killmonger was the one who rescued Claw?
What puzzled me was how Killmonger knew that Rhino guy wanted Claw. I also did not get why Killmonger had to wait until South Korea to kill Claw. Marvel villains really seem to have crazily convoluted plans