[QUOTE=Gary Kumquat]
Catherine the Great created a ‘Pale of Settlement’ in Russia in 1791. This was a western border region of the country in which Jews were allowed to live. The motivation behind this was to restrict trade between Jews and native Russians. Some Jews were allowed to live, as a concession, beyond the pale."
[/QUOTE]
Hmm…this is the explanation for the phrase that I’ve always heard. What is the Irish connection?
Ok, looked it up.
So I guess the phrase was a mild insult to the Norman Irish back in 1453. Hardly think thats worth objecting to its use today.
[QUOTE=CarnalK]
Yeah, I know what I’m posting. It was a little joke for the old timers.
[/QUOTE]
No, it was a little joke for a puerile gang of rubber-necking basement dwellers. At least be honest, fuckwit.
[QUOTE=Gary Kumquat]
Catherine the Great created a ‘Pale of Settlement’ in Russia in 1791. This was a western border region of the country in which Jews were allowed to live. The motivation behind this was to restrict trade between Jews and native Russians. Some Jews were allowed to live, as a concession, beyond the pale."
[/QUOTE]
The motivation was a bit more than restriction of trade.
“Czar Catherine II (“The Great”) established the Pale of Settlement in 1791 as a territory for Russian Jews to live. Created under pressure to rid Moscow of Jewish business competition and “evil” influence on the Russian masses, the Pale of Settlement included the territory of present-day Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, Ukraine and Belorussia. More than 90% of Russian Jews were forced to live in the poor conditions of the Pale, which made up only 4% of imperial Russia. Still, the Jewish population in Russia grew from 1.6 million in 1820 to 5.6 million in 1910. Even within the Pale, Jews were discriminated against; they paid double taxes, were forbidden to lease land, run taverns or receive higher education.”
[QUOTE=Small British Shop Owner]
You not apologized for implying that I was some kind of sexual deviant.
What can I say? It should be obvious, but it apparently isn’t. These sorts of comments are beyond the pail.
I again suggest that you retract them.
[/QUOTE]
Would you stop trolling? You’re clearly not very good at it.
[QUOTE=Jackmannii]
"Czar Catherine II (“The Great”) established the Pale of Settlement in 1791 as a territory for Russian Jews to live.
[/QUOTE]
No doubt it was a very bad thing and all, but again I just don’t understand who is meant to be offended by the use of this phrase.
The pail was established in discrimination against jews, but as a saying it seems to imply that outside of the jewish settlement things were uncivilized (if something beyond the pale is bad, that clearly means that inside the pale is good). So all in all, should I condemn this phrase because it comes from a time where jews were discriminated against, or discriminated against others, or the irish were discriminated against, or discriminated against others, or…nope, I’m just confused.
Your thread was closed because it referred to illegal activities.
And I’m not offended by pail/Pale. Most of my own folks came from Galway. (And a few from Ulster.) This Irish/American his no problem with Brits. (Except for a few wankers I’ve met in real life.)
Beyond the Pale & not ashamed.
(Upon reviewing your Pit thread that was closed, I’d like to volunteer that I have no website.)
For what it’s worth, I viewed the OP in the GQ thread as a veiled attempt to get other posters to do web searches for illegal porn. I thought Bridget Burke’s response was probably too snarky for GQ, but she was probably correct in her assumptions and insinuations. My two cents.
[QUOTE=Gary Kumquat]
No doubt it was a very bad thing and all, but again I just don’t understand who is meant to be offended by the use of this phrase.
The pail was established in discrimination against jews, but as a saying it seems to imply that outside of the jewish settlement things were uncivilized (if something beyond the pale is bad, that clearly means that inside the pale is good).
[/QUOTE]
I’ve never heard this interpretation.
The Phrase Finder (which you appear to have referenced) has this to say:
"The first printed reference comes from 1657 in John Harington’s lyric poem The History of Polindor and Flostella.
In that work, the character Ortheris withdraws with his beloved to a country lodge for ‘quiet, calm and ease’, but later venture further - ‘Both Dove-like roved forth beyond the pale to planted Myrtle-walk’. Such recklessness rarely meets with a good end in 17th century verse and before long they are attacked by armed men with ‘many a dire killing thrust’. The message is clearly, ‘if there is a pale, you should stay inside it’, which conveys exactly the meaning of the phrase as it is used today."
Wikipedia mentions the term being used to indicate that things were hostile outside the pale. “Beyond the pale” came to signify “outside the boundary”. Eventually it was taken to mean “exceeding the limits of decency or good behavior”.
So I don’t think there’s cause for offense unless one is using the phrase to suggest that particular ethnic groups are out of bounds. 
[QUOTE=Bridget Burke]
…And I’m not offended by pail/Pale. Most of my own folks came from Galway. (And a few from Ulster.) This Irish/American his no problem with Brits. (Except for a few wankers I’ve met in real life.) …
[/QUOTE]
This Irish/American has no problem with Brits.
[QUOTE=Malacandra]
Don’t be silly. I know the origin of the phrase but I am a very smart Brit, and I’d be willing to conduct a straw poll of my countrymen confident that not one in twenty who used the expression had any clue that it meant anything other than “out of order”.
Unless you’re Irish yourself, suppose you don’t go around being professionally offended on their behalf. :rolleyes:
[/QUOTE]
I’ll assume, on behalf of over 50% of my ancestors, that “Beyond the Pale” isn’t the most offensive thing you can say to an Irish citizen. Asking for a “Black and Tan” in a pub in Cork would be asking for it though.
[QUOTE=Pushkin]
Asking for a “Black and Tan” in a pub in Cork would be asking for it though.
[/QUOTE]
Nowadays, you can’t follow it up with, “Got a light?”
A lot of posts for me to reply to, so this may take a while as I’ll have to get supper and go to the pub, among other things. Then again, maybe I’ll only reply to a few posts. Starting with the next one.
[QUOTE=CarnalK]
After all, you are anonymous (part of why you asked) and you don’t intend to sign up. So it’s not like there’s even a “online reputation” to worry about.
[/QUOTE]
A good point, actually. But it will affect the responses I get to anything else I post if I’m marked down as some sort of pervert.
BTW, I’m vaguely aware of the Stage Manager thing if it’s what I think it is, as I’ve said before I’ve lurked along time. Accusation beneath contempt, so I hope that it really was in “humor”.
[QUOTE=Muffin]
Whether you are a sexual deviant would depend on location. Shitting in a pail in a small sailboat far from shore is not uncommon and is in no way deviant, whereas several friends all shitting in pails in the choir gallery while gazing at nuns’ ankles during a church service is sexually deviant. It really comes down to where it is that you are when you shit in a pail.
So, Small British Shop Owner, where usually are you when you shit in your pail? Your answer will help us determine whether or not you are a sexual deviant.
For myself, I have only tried shitting in a pail once. This Boy Scout activity was so unsatisfactory, that since that time I have prefered to squat over scat hole than use a pail. When compared to shitting in a pail, I don’t know whether shitting on the ground makes me more or less of a sexual deviant, but the fact remains that I have a strong preference against shitting in a pail.
[/QUOTE]
I have never shat in a pail, nor beyond one.
[QUOTE=Zoggie]
was an odd thing to say, considering that rape and degradation themed porn is on the net. In fact, I can’t conceive why someone who’s into rape fantasies (from either the victim or the rapist’s POV) would choose to D/L child pornography.
[/QUOTE]
The same reason many people prefer amateur porn, or real voyeurism over the fake stuff. Or so I’d have though, hence my plan to start a Great Debates thread, which I will probably start this weekend when I have some time free.
[QUOTE=Happy Scrappy Hero Pup]
A guy purporting to be British using “beyond the pale” isn’t exactly the best example of sensitivity, either.
[/QUOTE]
People who would be genuinely offended by this phrase are, to put not too fine a point on it, not people that I am worried about offending.
It is a phrase that one needs to put effort into to be offended by. These are the same people who want “chairman” changed into “chairperson”. They are never the chairwoman themselves.
They usually read the Guardian or Morning Star. The oppose nuclear power, but supported Pol Pot.
You know the type.
[QUOTE=Waverly]
No, it was a little joke for a puerile gang of rubber-necking basement dwellers. At least be honest, fuckwit.
[/QUOTE]
No, I paid 15 dollars and post here for my own entertainment, jackass. It would be nice if mind-reading self-righteous prigs like yourself learned to accept that.
And “fuckwit” is tired and holds no sting.
[QUOTE=Enderw24]
Would you stop trolling? You’re clearly not very good at it.
[/QUOTE]
I wasn’t sure whether to respond to this, but against my better judgement, here goes:
Get a life.
How horrible yours must be when you are so mistrusting of people’s motives. 99.9% of people are basically ok, even if you can’t always understand them (hell, even in Iran).
And for the record, I’m not a troll. According to Wikipedia, a troll is “someone who intentionally posts derogatory or otherwise inflammatory messages about sensitive topics in an established online community such as an online discussion forum to bait users into responding.”
Now fine, I’m posting messages about sensitive topics, in a way that might possibly be inflamatory (i.e. they’re not politically correct) in an established online community, but I’m not “baiting users into responding”. I am seeking discussion and yes, a fair amount of criticism, because I am open minded and recognise that my ideas are eccentric, and perhaps in large part incorrect. But they are still worth talking about civiliy, yes?
[QUOTE=Bridget Burke]
Your thread was closed because it referred to illegal activities.
[/QUOTE]
It didn’t, it referred to illegal things.
Like the difference between “how much hash is there” and “how do I make hash”.
[QUOTE=Bridget Burke]
(Upon reviewing your Pit thread that was closed, I’d like to volunteer that I have no website.)
[/QUOTE]
Sorry about that, it seems that I was misinformed, but won’t discuss that any further anyway. My complaint in this thread still stands.