Not specifically offensive to me, mind you (which is why I feel so comfortable sharing it), just to whatever third party group I feel like patronizing right now. Now to quote the horribly offensive statement using a rolleyes as my sole refutation even though the sentiment is “not at all uncommon enough to expect universal condemnation from my audience”. :rolleyes:
Links, you say? Just go to the Pit, close your eyes, and click (try it thrice).
Ok, fine!
OK, I give up. What was it you wanted to complain about, exactly?
It took me some time to understand, too.
First I had to notice the tiny link at the bottom right of the OP, which took some time. Then to figure out what the fuss was about.
I understand the OP is pitting me (that would be my first time, is there some sort of prize?) because :
-I was pitting comments I wasn’t the target of (I assume the OP thinks pit threads must only be written when you’re the direct victim of the behavior you’re pitting
-What I was pitting wasn’t done by someone the OP knows, and wasn’t something reported by the papers, either, hence of no interest for the OP who can’t relate to the event.
-By pitting something I’m not a victim of, I’m patronizing since assumedly there’s no reason to be irritated in such a case.
-If I understand correctly, it’s somehow cowardly to post about something you’re not directly involved in (* “which is why I feel so comfortable sharing it” * )
-What I was reporting was no big deal and not worth a pitting (" * horribly offensive statements " * apparently intended to be sarcastic)
-I didn’t explain why various prejudiced comments are offensive, and instead used “rolleyes”, hence he had to figure it out by himself
And (I think) the most important point :
-He shares the opinion of the people I was pitting or at least think that there are a lot of people sharing this opinion, hence that me assuming no explanation are required or that dopers reading my post will agree with me is preposterous or moronic, or offensive, or something…
Yeh, clairobscur, I think you’ve managed to dissect whatever meaning there was to be had from that flattened-roadkill-of-a-skunk OP – but was it worth the effort? :dubious:
Wow, for once I actually somewhat agree with pizzabrat :eek:
Not in this specific case because I haven’t read the specific thread he’s talking about but I can relate to what he’s saying. There are [a]A LOT** of people on these boards that make a habit of nailing themselves to crosses every day and frankly it gets pretty damn old.
A lot of times I find myself thinking can you really be that pissed off everytime someone says something that you don’t agree with, or are you really trying to hide your own racism/sexism/xenophobia/homophobia…etc?
Right, and Pizzabrat, our resident PETA/Veggie shill doesn’t regularly climb up on that old chunk o’ wood, right? In this case it would be a pot/kettle situation for him, and normally Brat does it just to stir shit up.
Sam
Oh, come on! One of the most common types of pit threads and nobody knows what I’m talking about? ::reads clairobscur’s post:: Oh wait. Yeah, that’s pretty much it. Except for the most important thing:
“horribly offensive statements” wasn’t sarcastic - it was dead serious, and that’s my entire point. If somebody said something you know is offensive and hurtful, why would you want to help broadcast it to the world? It’s like “just in case you were having a nice day, here are some hateful things some random strangers said about you. Enjoy!” Would you do that in real life? Would you enter a mixed group and just start relaying a bunch of offensive stuff somebody else said, punctuating each bit “Can you believe that?”, as if your audience could never fathom these common sentiments they’ve probably heard too many times? Would you go home to your wife and tell her “Matt from work says your eyes are way too far apart! Can you believe that jerk?”?
Well, can you disagree with that ? I mean, even in your story, your expectation that your audience would agree with your sarcastic recitation of an offensive sentiment backfired right on you (you: "Oh yeah? Africa’s fucked up so I guess black people must be stupid. :rolleyes: " her: “Yeah, you’re right”), so why would you repeat your tactic here?
BTW, I wasn’t pitting you specifically - yours was just the most recent thread of that type (and I’ve gotten in to so much trouble before from not providing links).
…I’m pizzabrat! You’re obviously talking about someone else, since not a single word in that sentence describes me (PETA/Veggie shill? I just had an eye round!).
Bah, way too meta for a simple soul like me. And I daresay that if what you wanted to Pit was the habit of some posters to fling themselves up on the cross, I think you could have found a much better example in any number of locations, perhaps even elsewhere in the referenced thread itself.
Off to find a rant less boring. Carry on.
I apologize for the apparent mischaracterization. I do have to words for you that prove the point of my previous comment-Death Spike.
Sam
My two cents is that a doper sees something that greatly upsets them. Disturbed by this, they post a pit rant (which is partly what the BBQ Pit is for - ranting on whatever you want), wherein other dopers agree with them and the OP is now comforted that the entire world isn’t as fucked up as it seems. I don’t think clairobscur posted that to ruin our day.
Holy Christ are you ever a moron. :rolleyes:
What the hell is your problem? Did I say anything to you?
No, he’s merely perceptive.
In a way, yes. You posted, dude. That means you’re inviting a response. What’s more, you posted in the Pit. That means you’re inviting an antagonistic response.
On your original point, I disagree. You seem to be saying, if I can figure it out from your second and somewhat more straightforward post, that posting about offensive stuff is just spreading it around. I don’t think that’s the case, especially not in this instance. I’ve been tempted myself to bring things that I found upsetting or offensive in real life to this forum, so that I can work them over with the help of others and maybe find a measure of accomodation, or perhaps some kindred souls who are likewise disgusted/affronted/shocked/whatever.
I think that’s healthy. **clairobscur **was starting a debate, offering a personal experience that s/he (don’t know, clair, sorry) found upsetting. That’s valid. If you don’t care for it, then don’t participate.
How is that not the case? Discussing an annoying statement with a close friend is one thing, but broadcasting your cousin’s opinion that “short men are completely worthless” on a internet messageboard of tens of thousands is spreading it around, even if you roll your eyes as you do it. And if you happen to be 6’4" while doing so, it’s cowardly and patronizing (honestly, I wasn’t thinking a word as harsh as “cowardly” when I wrote this OP, but when clairobscur said it, Goddamnit, it fit!). Using third parties as abstract debate fodder is cowardly and patronizing - you’re speaking on behalf of other people while knowing as ugly as the discussion can get, you’ll never personally be scathed.
Okay. It’s one thing to place your own ego in danger of a pecking party by the this board’s resident sadists (hi Miller & Excalibre) by sharing something that hurt you personally, but spreading around something that’s just offensive to someone else, probably, soley to let everyone know that you disagree with that sentiment is just…cowardly.
Well, you’ve said clairobsur was just an example but unless you have a better one…one of the reasons I come here is to learn about the world. I’ve heard some things about the current tension in France regarding Muslims. clairobscur has provided a first hand anecdote regarding the existence of anti-Muslim sentiment in French society(and I take that for what it’s worth, just and anecdote, but it’s information). How is this out of keeping with fighting ignorance?
Secondly, do people do this in real life? Constently! Oftentimes, to vent. Which is one of the things the Pit is for.
Do, you send a letter in protest to your local newspaper or TV station each time each they mention an event deemed as offensive to some? Do you ask people to shut the fuck off in real life if they’re involved in a discussion about racism? Do you pit every SDMB poster who open a thread about an issue they aren’t involved in? No posts about torture in Irak because in all likehood no doper has been tortured in Irak? People who haven’t been sexually abused as children shouldn’t post about children abuse?
What kind of Orwellian logic are you following when you state that criticizing something is actually “helping broadcast it to the world”. With this kind of reasonning, we should have all the the anti-Bush crowd picketing in front of the theaters showing Fahrenheit 9/11 because the movie is “broadcasting to the world” Bush’s stance.
I assume from this that you were upset to be remembered by my post that there are people out there making the kind of statement I mentionned. I assume also that you’re yourself Jewish, Arab or Black, or else, you’d be “patronizing” them by critizing something (my post) which is supposed to upset them.
If it was the case and if it ruined you day, then may I suggest that you avoid reading the content of this board, and in particular the pit threads, since there’s a lot of stuff some people are going to be offended by posted here? Actually, pretty much all the posts here are going to piss off a number of readers.
I might or I might not, depending on my mood, the circumstances, etc…in the same way I might or might not post it here. If there had been a “mixed group” in the next room when I read these comments, then, yes I probably would have. Should I avoid any reference to racism when I’m with Arabs, to gay-bashing when I’m with gays, and so on? And if so why? To avoid bruising their fragile egos? On the basis that these people can’t handle discussing these issues? Who’s patronizing, here?
Those who are targeted can certainly fathom it. Does it mean that they’re unable to hear about it and discuss about it? It certainly hasn’t been my experience in “real life”. And if it is the case, then, I suppose we should do a lot of editing and censorship in our media outlets and everyday discussions.
I’m not married (mention included for the information of female dopers). You’re example isn’t very relevant IMO, but anyway : if her eyes were actually way too far apart, I would probably not mention it. If they weren’t (which would make it a situation similar to the comments I mentionned in my OP), then, why not, if I was pissed off by Matt comments and felt like venting about it?
Anyway, there’s a lot of things I write in this board I wouldn’t necesarily tell to people I personnally know. I wouldn’t argue endlessly with my mother about her religious beliefs, like I do in GD, for instance. But the point of GD is to argue and debate, and that’s why I read/post in GD. If some people can’t handle their religious beliefs being discussed, then probably they shouldn’t read the GD threads. And similarily, the point of the Pit is to vent. If people can’t handle it, then maybe they shouldn’t read threads refering to topics they’re too sensitive about.
Because, as I mentionned in the very post you’re pitting, the audience here is fortunately vastly different from the people I met in this chat room. I probably wouldn’t have posted it on a white supremacist message board, for instance. Does it answer your question?
Fine. But since you picked me as an example, it’s quite logical that I respond.
Yeesh - quick clarification before I get misrepresented. I’m not saying “I think people shouldn’t discuss offensive things”, I’m just wondering how much tact there is in sharing random offensive comments for no reason. If you’re so certain everyone here will share your disgust about them, then just let them die with whomever was unfortunate enough to hear them from the source? You, and other authors of these types of threads didn’t discuss anything - you merely relayed the comments and stated that you disagree with them. Anyway, here’s of this [url=http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=250400]common thread genre so people won’t think I’m crazy. Those are somewhat lame examples, and were harder to search for than I thought, so maybe they aren’t so common. Plus, nobody else seems to be as annoyed by them as I am, so just forget it 
.
Then, what do you suggest? Avoiding debatting any issue you aren’t directly involved in? Once again, should child abuse being discussed on this board only by people who had been abused as a child? There are tons of threads opened about newspaper articles reporting such crimes. Do you have an issue with those too?
Should I point out that these are social issues, which must be discussed by society at large, and not only within the group directly involved or secretly with your “close friends”.
I happen to have a work colleague who is a dwarf (replace it with whatever PC term currently in use in the US), and actually president of one of the major french association of (PC term), hence extremely sensitive about the issue. Should I avoid discussing the issue with him (until now he didn’t burst in tears nor threw rotten fruits at my face when I did, so he must somehow be able to handle my patronizing him)? Actually, who else could I find with whom it would be more appropriate and informative to discuss the issue?
And no, once again I’ve no issue ranting about an anti-Arab statement in the presence of Arab people, either. I did so many times. If I’m irritated, I see no reason not to share my feeling with someone who might have more reason than me to be irritated by this statement than me. Acting otherwise would be building walls between “us” and “them”. What I can tell to an european friend I can tell to an Arab, or gay, or whatever else friend. Otherwise, it would mean that I put them in separate categories, and that actually, an Arab friend is a “special case”, belonging to the “not like us” category, hence not actually a friend.
There are certainly cases, in “real life”, where I would abstain from mentionning something to someone because I know it could hurt his/her feelings. And most certainly, on a message board, there will be some people who will be similarily hurt for the same reason. Why then don’t I abstain from mentionning this thing on a message board to spare the readers’ feelings? Because in this case, I wouldn’t post anything. There always will be , on this board, someone who will be hurt by what I’m going to post. I wouldn’t have a philosophical discussion about death in the presence of a friend who just lost a parent, for instance. Should I refrain from discussing the issue here because there will necessarily be someone reading my post who is grieving the loss of someone?
People discussing the war in Irak here didn’t have bombs blowing up their houses and familes. Extremely few are/have been fighting in Irak. Hence, essentially everybody debating this issue knows he will never be personnally hurt. In what way is it different? In what way is it less “cowardly”? What are we allowed to discuss, according to you, once again?
And I would say that a post on a message board which contains a shread of “courage” is a very rare thing, indeed, because essentially nobody take any kind of real risk by posting his opinions here.
Now, to the “you’re speaking on behalf of other people” part :
Firstly, speaking on behalf of other people is generally a good thing. This reminds me of the comment of a poster in an entirely different thread, who stated something along the line “we aren’t going to fight your battles”. I’ve a hard time thinking this kind of stance is likely to improve anything.
Secondly, I wasn’t speaking on behalf of other people. I was voicing my feelings. I posted in the early morning, and was strongly frustrated and irritated by the argument I had been involved in. I wanted to vent, and I came to vent, which is precisely the purpose of the Pit. Had I been personnally targeted, I might have been even more irritated and frustrated. But I fail to see why “it could have been worse” made my frustration any less real, and should have prevented me from venting it.
Perhaps you should consider thinking about the reasons which result in you having some preconceived opinions about the motivations of other people, and also in building this wall I was refering to above between “us” (who have a monopoly on the issue) and “them” (who shouldn’t ever dare mentionning the issue). Sorry to use a big word, but that is a segregationnist position.
Of course, I’m assuming here, once again, that you actually belong to one of the groups I mentionned in my OP. Because otherwise, you should rather shut up, according to your own opinion about what constitutes “patronizing” and “being a coward”.
From what does your knowledge about my or other posters’ motivations come, exactly? You were flat wrong, as I explained above. You’re under no obligation to believe me, of course. But then, even if I just wanted to “let everyone know…etc…”, what exactly is wrong with that? Why shouldn’t I “let everyone know that I disagree with this sentiment”?
As I wrote aboove, that’s called “venting” to people you expect will share your opinion. Believe it or not, some are actually pissed off/irritated/frustrated when hearing statements which don’t target them personnally, especially when it comes from morons deeply stuck in their moronic ways, and unable to hold any kind of rational discussion. Then, you call a friend or write a message on an expectedly supportive message board, you feel better, and you go to bed.
And it’s not reserved to issues like gay or arab bashing. People do the same when they’ve for instance spent an afternoon enduring idiotic political comments at a family gathering, or the princess-like attitute of a colleague. There’s no fundamental difference in the motivations.