Britney vs. Madonna (aka: Holy Flurking Schmidt revisited)

Cafe Society
1

Okay, those of you who habituate Cafe Society can’t help but have noticed, if not participated in, jarbabyj’s “Holy Flurking Schmidt” (did I spell “Schmidt” right? does it really matter?) thread re: Britney’s new video (haven’t seen it yet, but that’s not important right now). During the thread, some time was devoted to the following assertion:

Britney is trying to be Madonna (e.g., carve out a similar space of music/sluttiness/etc…for her generation)

The purpose of this post is NOT to debate whether or not Britney does in fact have this agenda. Rather, it is to pose the question:

Is Britney capable of becoming the Madonna of her generation?

IMHO, the answer is clearly “No”: Yes, Britney has demonstrated that, whatever she does have, has more staying power than other pop girls. But compared to Madonna, no way! I am not a big Madonna fan, but I have a pretty deep respect for what Madonna has accomplished in her career. What has become apparent over the 20 years of her career is that, regardless of how slutty or sexy or whatever Madonna is at that point, it is clear that she: a) has an agenda over and above the overt sex (agree with it or not); b) is in control of the situation (even when potraying exploited personnas, a la Marilyn); and c)has an obvious intelligence behind what she is doing.

The real question is whether this level of artistry (yeah, I used the word; Madonna can’t be in the biz for 20 years and produce new, worthy work like Ray of Light and Music without some artistry) was apparent when Madonna was where Britney is now. I say yes, it was apparent, especially compared to Britney’s work to date. Madonna’s most famous thing for her second album was either the album name and single “Like a Virgin” her MTV appearance in the wedding gown, or the song/video “Material Girl”. Bottom line: all better, and with a more manipulative artistic streak running through them, than Britney. It’s one thing to push the SEX button (ooops I did it again - okay, she’s a tease: so?), it’s another to subversively tweak our noses and make us think about what’s happening.

Your thoughts?

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IMHO, Madonna has been in a career freefall, especially with her husband-directed projects.

Notably, the BMW mini-movie and the upcoming film directed by Guy Ritchie.

Is Britney working on a movie? That would reveal exactly how much talent is in there behind the jiggly bare midriff. (not to mention provide another comparison point with Madonna)

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As I just posted in the orginal thread: Give me Madonna licking a black Jesus statue come to life anyday.

Seriously, I have loved Madonna since I was a very little girl. From the ages of 4 to 13, I was Madonna for Halloween, and I will be reincarnating the look for an upcoming Dope-a-ween. I went to the Madonna Concert After-Party at Velvet Nation in DC and dressed as Madonna from Rain ('cause I cut of all my hair and it matched the period). She’s always been my dominant fashion inspiration -just today I wore brown suede pants with a denim jacket and a white Madonna tee underneath. Sort of the “Don’t Tell Me” cowgirl look.

Although I’m not 100% mad about her music, and haven’t been since Ray Of Light, I still love her. I love everything she stands for - her sexuality, her freedom of expression, her inhibitionless spirit. I wouldn’t ever put out a book called “SEX,” but damn if she isn’t my idol in almost every possible way.

IMO, Britney isn’t offering anything new - just sex, in a sparkly see-though outfit instead of a wedding dress. But Britney’s “I’m so innocent, I’m a virgin” act will hold her back. I love Madonna because she doesn’t give a rat’s ass, and if she had, she wouldn’t have made it this far. Britney clearly does care, or else she wouldn’t be defending herself every two minutes in the press. Britney just doesn’t have that devil-may-care-no-bullshit-kiss-my-everloving-ass attitude, and that’s what she needs to be the next Madonna.

Plus, Madonna did social commentary. Madonna took a stand. Madonna licked a black Jesus statue coming to life. Would Britney ever do that? No way. She’s too busy being a good little Southern Baptist. Once we see her naked enough, she’s going to be played out, and people will move on to the next newest naked thing. Madonna shakes people up, Madonna pissed people off. Britney says, “I know I was naked with a snake around my neck, but I still go to church and pray every night and I don’t have premarital sex!”

I also think Britney is way too stupid to fill Madonna’s shoes. Madonna is one shrewd businesswoman. If it weren’t for her micro-managers and stylists and make-up artists and songwriters and studio band, Britney would be nothing.

Britney isn’t fit to lick Madonna’s shoes. So there.

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If you don’t think Madonna has been extensively handled, consulted, and coached by managers, stylists and make-up artists, you’re a sucker for hype. It’s worth noting that Madonna has been self-directing her career to a much greater extent than ever before over the last few years and her popularity has been dropping faster than an Iraqi fighter jet.

I think it’s certainly very POSSIBLE that Britney Spears could have a long and successful career a la Madonna. It’s not probable, because like Madonna, she’d need some luck. But all it would take would be one decent movie and she’d put another five years on her career.

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Now that is a video I would watch. :smiley:

Look at how they present themselves:
Britney: “I can make you want me but you can’t have me 'cause I’m a good little girl.”

Madonna: “I can make you want me but you can’t handle me 'cause I’ll f*ck you right the hell into traction.”

Britney’s a tease. Madonna’s a challenge. Teases get old, but challenges never do. Brit’s not even in the same league. Not so far, anyway. I don’t listen to their music, so I have no comparison on that basis.

Heard a story once about Madonna in school days that I have no idea if true. She was a football cheerleader, and rather than wear the color-coordinated underwear-looking whachamajiggers under her skirt like everybody else, was prone to wearing flesh-toned ones with dark shoe polish in the crotch. Imagine what her cartwheels looked like from the bleachers. Again, don’t know if it’s true; but if it is, I’m impressed. That’s raunch with guts.

My local bookseller had a copy of “SEX” on display when it came out, which you could look at under supervised conditions, so as not to traumatise the kiddies. I took a look just to see what all the fuss was about. Opened to a page at random, and screaming at me in letters about an inch tall it announced: “I love my pussy.” That’s raunch with integrity. Color me impressed again.

I may salivate over Britney, but I admire Madonna. She could eat Britney for breakfast. Which is another video I’d like to see. :slight_smile:

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“Plus, Madonna did social commentary. Madonna took a stand. Madonna licked a black Jesus statue coming to life.”

What, pray tell, was the “social commentary” there? Other than the “social commentary” that she’s been flogging for 20 years – “Oh, I’m so controversial, hence, I’m an awww-tist.”

Controversy – yeah, like no one’s ever done that one before…

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People, people. I guess none of you remember when “Like A Virgin” came out and everyone thought Madonna was a talentless slut and that Cyndi Lauper was the one who would make it big? You guys are practicing revisionist history.

When Madonna was Britney, no one thought she had a chance.

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Very reasonable point, Hello Again, and I’m sure an article search would back you up. Having said that, I do remember that when she appeared on MTV in the wedding gown and with the Material Girl video, there was some allowance that she was doing something more that just slutty, even then…

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Um, not to hijack this or anything, but is there any doubt that Madonna C. is a helluva lot better singer than Ms. Spears? I’ve listen to about three Spears songs, and in every one she sounded like she was using a “sexy” voice to cover up a seriously limited talent.

But anyway. The thing I don’t like about how the Spears marketing is that it’s seemingly designed to draw nothing but derision, and there really isn’t any point to it. (Could someone puh-leeze explain to me how virginity improves the appeal of a freaking pop singer??) I mean, the real question isn’t when the bubble’s going to burst, but how she convinced anyone to give a damn.

She’s just putting way too much effort into this dumb charade, effort which would be far better spent improving her singing.

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It’s interesting to note that, according to the music File Sharing service “KAZAA” neither Britney nor Madonna make the top 50 artists to have their tunes downloaded around the place.

My point? The music isn’t the issue here - it’s the image and our perception therein which we’re debating.

Accordingly, whilst not approving of “album piracy” I do approve of Music File Sharing in philosophical terms - if only because it’s the great leveller - that is, in the absence of an accompanying video, music on the internet dies or falls purely on the basis of quality and word of mouth. Hence the poor standing of both artists in terms of mp3 downloads.

My only gripe is this - I get upset when MY favourite artistic medium, namely music, is hijacked by artists who need the VISUAL medium to succeed. In doing so, musically superior artists are unfairly pushed aside as meritorious milestones in our lifetime - and I for one begrudge said VISUAL artists for doing such a thing.

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great, now the thread will be closed. Thanks a lot. :wink:

I don’t have anything to offer on the discussion other than I hope Brittany does a remake of Body of Evidence…

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Or Cat People.

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Don’t know if she’s got a new one in the works, but she did have Crossroads. I’ve seen carpet lint with more talent, cat vomit with a greater range of expression. I have seen better acting in infomercials. [sub]Not that I’m saying that Madonna’s such a high-calibre actor but, next to Britney Spears, Madonna is Meryl Streep.[/sub]

Plus the soundtrack included Britney doing “I Love Rock ‘n’ Roll”. Where’s a barfing smiley when you need one?

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I like when Britney got decked by Mike Meyers in the Pepsi commercial.

Madonna rules, no two ways about it (for me). Boo Boo Foo, no, Madonna’s image has helped in some ways, but I listen to her music all the time and I don’t see pictures of her while doing so. Britney, on the other hand, had a televised concert on Fox. I watched it… with the volume down. :wink:

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I like how it takes her almost a full second after he “hits” her to actually react. POW!!..OHH!! If that’s the best take they could manage to get out of her, then her acting career truly IS doomed.

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You know, since my original post eons ago, I have watched Britney’s Las Vegas concert on MTV (I was at a Thanksgiving feast and I had absolutely no choice.)

I probably don’t even have to say this, but I have Madonna’s HBO concert on tape. And she fucking rocks. From the flamenco dancing to the guitar playing to the horse-riding - it is nonstop talent, energy, and awesomeness.

Britney’s concert sucked. She lip-synched the whole thing. Her dancing was provacative, her outfits were sexy, she got all wet, sure - but it still sucked. It was a special effects extravaganza, with no talent on display whatsoever.

I guess we can all just thank bejesus that Christina Aguilera seems to be history.

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What’s funny about that is that when reporters asked Britney about why she wanted to cover that song in the film she said something to the effect of “I love Pat Benatar!”