I guess they’ll have to change the Wheaties box. The Bruce Jenner I grew up idolizingdied a long, long time ago.
R.I.P. Bruce
Hello old lady xxxxxx, whatever name she picks.
I’m glad that Bruce is following his happiness, but I have to admit I’m pretty shocked that it’s true.
Bruce Jenner is one of the finest athletes that has EVER competed. This is as if Bo Jackson or Babe Ruth had announced at 65 that they wanted to be a woman.
I know of no precedent of a great athlete wishing to change genders. Pretty crazy.
Trying to answer this seriously, but only based on my opinion and not on any relevant insight. My guess would be that those struggling with gender identity are not happy with their appearance and would tend to downplay their looks so as to not direct attention to themselves. Dressing very neutral, little to no makeup, low maintenance haircut, anything to minimize time spent looking in the mirror. People with pride in their looks would tend to be happier with who they are and who they presented to the world. So a teenage girl with a popular haircut, well made up face and stylish clothes would not be someone you would guess is unhappy in their skin.
And I do realize that those surface things don’t necessarily directly transfer to being good looking or not, but getting noticed is a huge step in being considered attractive.
Without wishing to get into the minefield of trans terminology, philosophy and debate, I’d say “Pretty much everything.”
To say that transgender changes are all about (physical) sex is of course wrong. However, to push the needle to the other end and say that physical sexuality is some completely different topic is… disingenuous? Physical sexuality is a major component of human existence and makeup, even in those individuals that are sexually passive. Changing one’s physical gender makeup is as much about the potential for physical capability for sex as that gender as it is about self-image and image perception.
It doesn’t really matter if Jenner ever has physical sex as a woman. I understand it has almost everything to do with what she will see in a mirror and feel about herself - physical sex with a male-gender partner is a separate issue.
But at 65, with likely less than 20 years of lifespan left, and something between zero and maybe ten years of active interest in physical sex, the rigors of a full transformation would seem excessive compared to the rewards. But then, I’m neither trans, uncomfortable with my gender nor [Bruce] Jenner. 
Yeah, my aunt initially started out with a feminized version of her male name, but ditched that pretty quickly for “something else” that has no family history connection that I’m aware of. I think she just liked that name. (She transitioned when I was 7 or 8, so there may be details I have no idea about.)
I was very proud of my mom. After my aunt died, Mom made sure that her female name was used in the obituary and on the grave stone. In fact, there was no mention of her male name anywhere.
I wish everybody in this thread would find a way to watch the excellent Amazon series “Transparent” starring Jeffrey Tambor as an older man deciding to finally transition later in life. It’s an amazing show with amazing acting and writing and will really help you understand why this isn’t really something to joke around about*.
*That said, I do think that everything is ok to joke about. Rape, abortion, whatever. But I think there are classy ways to go about finding humor in this kind of thing and most people here are nowhere near hitting that mark.
I don’t need to see a documentary; I lived it with a family member. And I agree, this is not a joking matter.
Why would they have to change it? Bruce Jenner earned those honors honestly and by his own hard work. Even if that is not who he will end up being, we don’t need to erase or diminish his past.
Are they still putting Jenner on Wheaties boxes? I’d thought they’d have moved on to a more recent athlete.
Richard Raskin was good enough to get scouted by the Yankees before concentrating on tennis, becoming captain of the Yale tennis team and winning both the all-Navy singles and doubles championships. Raskin was at least good enough to be accused, as Renee Richards, of receiving sexual reassignment treatment just so she could dominate women’s tennis.
Heard on the radio this morning that Bruce has chosen the name Belinda. I know next to nothing about Bruce Jenner, but I know the Kardashians seek out all the attention they can get. I hope Bruce is sincere and not just looking for another reality show.
There is an interrelation, you are correct, but your post implied it was much stronger than I believe the research I’ve done, plus my years of personal experience as a counselor, activist, etc. show. I don’t think saying “pretty much everything” is accurate either. Sexual preference does change in many transgender individuals, true. I went from die-hard lesbian to “lesbian-leaning bi”, but I have friends who did complete switches after transition. In some cases, counter-switches (a lesbian woman, who transitioned to male and then became gay).
Great athletes are rare, but there are some cases I list in my report on this subject, especially on pages 4-on.
Composer/arranger/performer David Palmer of Jethro Tull fame was married for quite a number of years. When his wife died, latent gender dysphoria from childhood rose up and she became Dee Palmer, in her mid 60s.
Really, for some people, they will put it off until there is no one important they are worried about upsetting with the change. It is a matter of personality, and with the attitudes of the current generation, waiting seems less and less likely to happen.
I think that is a fair rule - let the involved person be the one who tells us when and how to correct the identification language.
And am I wrong or is the current accepted etiquette that after that happpens, the new identifiers should be used retroactively even if referring to pretransition lifetime – I get the feeling that IOC are going to catch heat no matter what they say.
At least the Jackson’s had/have talent. Most of them.
I was going to post this. There was a bit fuss around these parts a while back when some city official decided to transition later in life and was going to lose her job over it. I believe she had waited until her children were older. That may be why Bruce has waited so long, I believe all his kids are pretty much grown now. If this is all true then I wish him the best but it’s not going to be easy with the attention his fame whore family gets and I am sure, even if he does not get his own show out of this, all the other members of his family will manage to make it about them.
Also, like someone else said, I will continue to use the male pronoun until Bruce officially announces his preference.
Well put! I agree.
I actually thought we were doing a darn good job of having a respectful discussion. At what comment(s) is this aimed?
Bruce Jenner died? How come nobody tells me these things.
I was thinking about the SNL sketch they’ll eventually get around to making.
Bruce was an incredible athlete. He’s the only decathlon winner that most people know. I have no idea who has won it recently. There was just something electric that made Bruce stand out.
It makes this decision that much harder to understand. It’ll be interesting to hear his next major interview.
You know what’s funny? Even though Renee Richards was the first transsexual I ever heard about, and the story was big deal headline stuff I very much remember, I had totally forgotten she was ever called Richard Raskin.
You know, it would be a milestone if society ever got to the point where references to the apparent birth gender by someone who had transitioned became no big deal to anyone. I mean sure, a sexual transition would always be a significant event for the person who underwent it, but the notion that such a reference would raise no eyebrows whatsoever… but by then I expect folks will be transitioning much, much earlier in life so perhaps it would not come up at all.