Same here, Thea. My therapist actually encourages me to talk about Spike every week—what about him is making me tick currently, my feelings, whatever—because I identify so strongly with him.
No, I’ve never been an evil,chipped vampire, but Spike the Vampire is a metaphor, first and foremost, and it’s a metaphor that works for me.
Plus, I can admire him, because he’s a fighter. Sure he suffers huge setbacks, but he picks himself back up and just keeps on going.
I see some pretty clear parallels between Spike and Willow. The early geekiness, the overcompensation once they found a way to transcend said geekiness, the struggle to define themselves when their extraordinary circumstances abruptly changed–I think they’re really similar characters. Given the number of people who identify with Willow (especially Early Willow), I’m surprised there aren’t more people who closely identify with Spike.
Juniper200, I think you’re onto something there- I’ve always loved those rare scenes where Spike and Willow interact (dorm scene from “The Initiative”, anyone?). I don’t know if it’s just the chemistry between AH and JM, but the two of them play so well off of each other, and there is a sweetness to the interactions that I don’t think I’ve seen between any other two characters, even when Spike is trying to make a meal of Willow. I don’t even a souled-Spike edition of Spuffy would be as sweet as a soulless-Spike Spillow, and I crave a Spuffy future as much as the next Spuffy future-craver. I actually kinda wish ME had stuck to the original plan of having Spike and Willow be a couple. They would have been adorable together. (BTW, Weird_Al_Einstein, if you’re out there reading this, pick your charity, I’m ready to concede)
I’m out here, I haven’t posted lately 'cuz it seems like by the time I get to these threads everything I could think to say has already been said, and I dislike to say “me too”. Well, that and the fact that nobody picked up on my way cool nickname idea for the Big Bad, and instead everyone’s gone with “Morphy” :p.
Also, I’ve been writing capsule reviews of the first six Angel eps on another board for someone who missed them. How to synopsize “The House Always Wins”? One of the few mediocre eps this season, not much actually happened…
The charity…you think it would be easy, but I am actually going to have to give this some thought. Maybe even…God help me…do some research. I’ll get back to you…
I haven’t seen all the episodes from this season so I’d appreciate a few clarifications. Do we know if Spike still has his chip, and whether it’s still working? If the chip is still in place, any speculations on how Spike could kill those people? Do we assume that Morphy can override the chip, or is it possible that all those victims are really Morphy?
Well, I guess that is the big question. Presumably, the chip is still there. Note that we got the pain-face when he hit Xander this last episode, but didn’t get it when he fed.
There’s been no hint that Spike is chip-less. So were the victims not living things?
Tune in next week…
I think that TETD (and is it really so hard to type that?) is probably somehow giving Spike temporary immunity from the chip-induced pain. Also, it seemed that when Spike was insane, he felt the pain less - when he clocked Xander, he was quite lucid, and that was the most severe reaction I’ve seen him have to the chip this season.
Oh, and BTW, anybody care to hazard a guess as to why Spike came back to his senses when he tasted Buffy’s blood? It was obvious that TETD didn’t anticipate this happening, or else it wouldn’t have sicced him on her. I think it was also interesting that in “Conversations With Dead People”, Dawn and Willow got manifested spirits that appeared to be actual dead people (plus Dawn got something very demony) but Buffy was talking to an actual “live” vampire, who dropped the bombshell about having been sired by Spike. I thought it was a neat parallel to “Buffy vs. Dracula”, when Buffy tasted Drac’s blood and was then able to break out of his thrall and kick his ass. Maybe she absorbed some of his power when she drank his blood, and it stuck, giving her at least partial immunity to TETD’s mindfuck, and some of that was transferred to Spike? After that, TETD-Spike was still talking to him, but was unable to control him anymore.
Also, even though he has tasted her blood now, Spike has never actually bitten Buffy. The Master bit Buffy, Angel bit Buffy, Dracula bit Buffy, but Spike hasn’t bitten Buffy. And any TETD-given immunity to the pain aside, Spike can hurt Buffy, due to the “cellular tropical tan” she got when she was brought back from the dead, so double points for not killing her in this week’s episode.
I’m thinking that Spike has just grown accustomed to the pain he receives from the chip over time.
He now has a tolerance for it,like when he was kicking the crap out of home improvement boy.
In all fairness, Spike just barely said it. There was no real evidence within the four corners of the show that conclusively proved it. Also, if the point was so clear, why was the only way to clarify it was by spoilers or interviews? Quite frankly what Fury or Jane has to say does not impress me much as they are not Joss, and revisionist history is always possible. The only true canon is the show and Joss.
Of course, if Joss said it then it is settled. However, the point was not clear on purpose- they wanted to make you guess. Just like with Spike killing those girls or the deaths of the slayer-ish girls- more fun in the Joss-verse. “rabid anti-Spike faction” I didn’t see that as much as the guardedly hopeful pro-Evil Spike returns faction.
Doesn’t really roll off the tongue though.
My very own WAGs:
Spike has a case of multiple personality disorder. There is William the poet, and Spike from season 2, and the “normal” Spike in there. With a little help from Morphy, a serial killer, schizophrenic (well, not really. Someone really was telling him to kill people) Spike emerged. This explains the “Just the three of us” remark in episode one, the reason that Morphy-as-Spike was so effective in confusing him, and why the blood snapped him out of it. It was the first time since Drusilla that he (“normal” Spike) had tasted human blood. He said it himself: he’d remember if he drank human blood. He drank human blood. He remembered.
Out of curiosity, are there any cases of Spike experiencing chip pain from beating on Buffy before she was raised?
Yes. In “Out of My Mind”, when the Initiative Doc pretends to remove the chip, he attacks and nearly bites Buffy. In “Fool for Love”, he punches her where she was wounded by a vampire (with her own stake) and gets some pretty intense pain there.
Those are the only two I can think of offhand.
Woah— I like the Spike Girls!
I don’t agree with them all the time and think they may take the Spike benefit of the doubt thing a bit too far- but its all in the name of fun and enjoyment. If watching the character of Spike on BVTS makes you happy- go with it. Just because he is eye-candy doesn’t mean that his character isn’t well written and acted. Heck he tends to get some of the best lines in the show- I would be a bit surprised if he wasn’t popular. And yes, as I have posted before- if Spike gained 50-70 pounds (the “Chandler” effect) he might have not gotten such an enthusiastic fandom-- but the fact is he did not.
My view is this-- the Spike Girls are cool in my book, and I don’t mind debating the Spike question with them. Its never personal and all in good fun in my book. Sometimes it can overwealm the discussion of the series, and like MrAtoz, I feel that the writers have had to alter the premise of the characters and the show to keep Spike around and not have him become Angel 2.0.
But this is entertainment- and Spike is popular. I hardly expect them to dust Spike- it is the big 4 now- not the big 3. The big 4 can’t die- its the only real rule to the show.
FWIW: Acting wise these actors do the best job (by character name):
Willow
Anya
Spike
Giles
Buffy
Xander (consistent writing would help though :rolleyes: )
We need a save Clem movement- our favorite flop eared demon is still missing! 
I had a dream about Clem last night, thought for the life of me I can’t remember what happened. The dream awas about watching a Buffy episode and Clem was in it, and I remember thinking that I couldn’t wait to get here and talk about it. 
Joss said it at the emmy thingy…I know, that’s real clear. If I can find the transpcript, I’ll show you, but it was way back in late June/early July.
And the canon has been established, because Spike has said twice now that he was after the soul. I wasn’t fooled into thinking he wanted the chip out, I never thought he wanted the chip out. I thought Spike was acting completely in character, especially since he seemed extremely angry. I never even understood why eveyrbody thought he wanted the chip out. I mean, it doesn’t even make sense since he could already hurt Buffy and he wanted to give the “bitch what she deserved.” He could have just gone back to her house, found her in the bathroom again, and snapped her neck. Simple as pie.
Or if he wanted to hurt her her another way, he could have lured Dawn into a trap and watch her be torn apart by whatever nasty hehad waiting.
Or he could have worked with Warren.
Or he could have cut the breaks on Xander’s car.
Anyway, Joss said it, Fury (who wrote the ep) said it, Marti has said it, Jane has said it, it’s in canon now, can everybody please just accept it and more on?
I think the chip didn’t go off because he was in a disassociative fugue. (Big word, that.)
Yeah elf6c, eight episodes into the season and still no Clem. I’ve been bitching about this for three weeks now. I guess I kinda forgot this week because I was distracted by seeing JM lying in a bed with a sheet that just barely covered his family jewels.
So, where the hell’s Clem? We want our Clem! Clem rules! Clem, Bringer of Spicy Buffalo Wings, Clem, Guardian of the Crypt, Clem, Taste-Tester of Snack Foods, Clem, Protector of Dawn when Spike’s Out of Town.
[sub]Wow, I coined an acronym that stayed in popular usage for nearly two months, and now I’ve started a whole Clem movement. And, I’m the Baronness of Buffy Breakdown. I feel so… geeky. Next, I’ll be writing post-Buffy fanfic, no, wait, I’ve already started doing that. Next, I’ll be writing Spike/Willow/Tara slash. [/sub]
Sorry pepperlandgirl, I tried to make it clear that I was on board with it (if you were refering to me). Joss said it = good enough for me. In the end he did get it- that’s what matters.
As to your other note- I assume the chip was going off like crazy but Spike simply did not notice it based on whatever state he was in. He really should have had one womper of a headache afterwards though.
A thought on killing and instant redemption- Willow, Anya and Spike have done it (actually Anya killed no one as the curse was undone at your request- but I digress. . .) if your name is in the main opening credits (i.e. no “guest” type billing) kill away. Otherwise your in big trouble- see i.e. Faith. Faith was under the influence of the Mayor, bad childhood, dead Watcher ect. . so she had an excuse too. But without her name in the credits are required, killing was wrong. Actually, Buffy killed someone too (with Faith-- right?). So did Giles (Glory’s host). Actually, the only person with clean hands would be Xander. I guess that’s why he complains about the Spike killings-- he has not gotten his own human killing spree yet. Damn writers. . . .
Thea Logica how about some Clem fanfic! Or Clem-Dawn stories where they save the day while the others ignore them (ala The Zeppo).
Or one where Anya writes a best selling business book. Or where Xander gets his own Bob Vila type show-- “This Old Crypt”.
I have to admit that you did start the Save our Clem movement- I was just happy to be part of such a worthy cause.
Hear, hear for “saving Clem”. Followthis link for a nice shot of our Clem.
I think that Buffy has some Slayer immunity to TETD. While she often clamis it when she is under the influence it has been shown that as her power grows her ability to shake off mind influencing effects grows. Remember the Master’s second attempts at hypnosis failed.
Additionally as TETD is probably the First Evil Buffy has encountered it before. If it appears before her she may recognize it. TETD is smart enough not to give the Slayer any information about its true nature.
Now as for how this made Spike snap out of it I like the explination that **robertliguori[\b] gave. Buffy’s blood may just have snapped him out of it because Spike actually experienced the taste of blood and remembered that he did horrible things and had been drinking blood. An alternate explination is that since Slayer blood is supposed to be really potent stuff it smacked him up hard core and that only a Slayer’s blood would provoke the reaction. It may even have given him some of Buffy’s immunity to TETD (which I like, but I think should now mean The Evil That Devours). Why I think power may have been confered is that it seems to be implied that when a vamp drains a Slayer they become more powerful. It is possible that just a few drops of Slayer blood can confer a portion of the total power that would be transfered by a full draining.
Clem, Clem, Clem, Clem
Clem, Clem, Clem, Clem,
Lovely Clem! Wonderful Cleeeemm!
Lovely Clem! Wonderful Clem.
Cle-e-e-e-m-m-m-m.
Cle-e-e-e-m-m-m-m.